Bio-Black Diesel-Alternative Fuels

Discussion in 'Tech/Mech General' started by Snowbird, Oct 9, 2009.

  1. Snowbird

    Snowbird Funster Life Member

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    :Wink:Hi All, There seems to be a lot of confusion re,Bio fuel etc,
    I will try my best to give what limited knowlage I have on this hoping that together we can gain more of same.
    A few glosaries used and missused-
    WVO- Waste vegiteble oil as it comes from the resteraunt.
    SVO-Streight vegie oil,as it comes from the supermarket.
    Bio-When its been prosessed and cleaned up.
    Black diesel- Sump oil that has been filtered and mixed with diesel.
    Dino-Diesel that you buy and pay through the nose for at the garage.- Called Dino becouse its short for dinosor.
    For some time the UK government has allowed the use of Bio in quantitys of 2500lts per year for your own consuption.
    Most older diesel motors will run on Bio or a mixture of Bio & Dino without any modification.
    If you want to run WVO or SVO you may need to modifiy slightly,mainly to get the viscosity down to a figure your injector pump will take.
    There are very good websites for this type of thing, one being Diesel Bob.
    Any one with any info will be appreciated.
    Any one with stupid remarks re bad grammer,spelling,will be agnored.
    Regards, Dave.:Wink:
     
  2. johng

    johng Read Only Funster

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    hi Dave, i would possibly say something like :

    WVO from the fast food restaurants , needs to be filtered , heated and allowed to stand, in whatever order, and this can be used in some old skool diesels.. adding Unleaded, DERV etc to get the viscousity correct for the ambient temperature..

    Bio Desiel , isnt that something quite different , a chemical mix up... DERV and other things (not usually veg oil) ?

    I use WVO in car... I think the 2500L applies to home made/ shop-shelf brought fuel, not commercial Bio (which can be purchased from a fuel pump, and tax payed)

    sorry if that makes no sense
     
  3. Snowbird

    Snowbird Funster Life Member

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    Hi John,I have seen the WVO kits fitted and working,some are quite good,Twin tanks being the favourite. Its not necisary to mix it with derv if you have a good inline heater or twim tank setup.Agread all diesels dont like it,the best being old Mercs and of course old Cummins love it.
    Bio is what it says it is Bio, the best being obtaind from rapeseed oil.
    Yes the 2500lts applies to your home made stuff,regardless of what its made from.:thumb:
     
  4. johng

    johng Read Only Funster

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    :thumb:

    My citroen is very happy (Bosch pump) on WVO, a probably go 75-25 DERV in winter as I cant be naffed fitting things to it :Rofl1:

    I want to add two Pug TD engines into the gap in the RV floor instead of the chevy engine :Rofl1: then I realised life was to short :BigGrin:
     
  5. Snowbird

    Snowbird Funster Life Member

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    My old Merc 190 ran WVO filtered through a pair of Levies with the legs tied up hanging up in the garage for 35000 miles without a hitch. Would still be going now but it went missing one night,never to be seen again. My current greescar is a 2.8 Isuzu with 230000 miles on it.:thumb:
     
  6. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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    watch your step dave

    read this thread...
     
  7. Snowbird

    Snowbird Funster Life Member

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    Aye up John, Wat`s 7 days in a lifetime, unless of course your a butterfly, then I think 7 days is quite a lot.:Eeek::Rofl1:
     
  8. ArenqueRojo

    ArenqueRojo Read Only Funster

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    Couple of points to make:
    1. Pump diesel in EU now has 5% bio diesel as standard and there is talk about upping that to 10% so all engine manufacturers work on that basis.
    2. The problem with veg oil is that it contains wax which if used in a cold diesel pump can accumulate and eventually clog it up. Hence the technique of pre-heating veg oil or using it as we used to use LPG - only after the first couple of miles and always change to diesel for the last two.
    3. Modern common bus diesel pumps are not as good as the old in-line pumps because they leave unused diesel hanging about so the wax can form easier. Bosch are the best pumps for veg oil.
    4. Rudolf Diesel, the inventor of the diesel engine, used peanut oil. It was many years before we started to substitute heavy mineral oil.
    5. Bio-diesel does attack some synthetic rubbers used in the seals of pumps. Good quality rubber isn't affected, which is why Bosch are good.6. Bio-diesel production, apart from filtering the veg oil, especially WVO, is about removing the wax. Most use Methanol as a catalyst in the process, seperating the wax from the Methanol post production so the Methanol can be re-used. Methanol is expensive and very dangerous to store in any quantity - hence the issues about Efoy generators fuel supply.

    Enough! Could go on for days on this subject 'cos I was researching generating electricity using veg oil in static diesels. If you really want the chapter & verse, Loughborough Uni took on my research (with a grant) and have run many forms of veg oil in various static engines.
    Patrick
     
  9. vwalan

    vwalan Funster

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    just as a matter of interest ,here in cornwall quite alot of the sewage works use M.A,N.engines powered by gas off the works to generate electricity tthrough large generators connected to the motors. my next door neighbour actually worked for the company that fitted these units . as i worked in the sewage ind .as well it seems such a shame we couldnt bottle some of the gas n use it in our vehicles . i believe lots of these types of engines are used throughout uk and dont seem to suffer much in the way of problems.they run just about constant day n night. cheers alan.
     
  10. johng

    johng Read Only Funster

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    Patrick, this is exactly what my oil supplier is looking into.. on his site is a fairly hefty static diesel engine, and he wants to put power into the grid from the WVO he collects...
     
  11. ArenqueRojo

    ArenqueRojo Read Only Funster

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    Johng, if you want further information I can give you quite a lot albeit 2 years out of date!
    I have spreadsheets audited by Pete Marwicks and a marketing study which cost us £2k:cry:
    More to the point, I can give you an introduction to Loughborough's alternative energy section who took over from where we left off.
    The problem for us was:
    the availability of WVO at sensible prices. At that time, a lot of people thought commercial biodiesel was going to be viable but now the picture is very different.
    the attitude and costs of the grid connection. The power companies have a tendency to charge for the back infrastructure so the site of the generator is more governed by that than anything else.

    One of the things that looked good was the idea of embedding the generators within a high demand environment. Ie. putting the generator plant on a new industrial estate with cabling to all units so that the tenants etc. could take what we produced and use the grid supply as backup.

    As I said, I could go on and on...
    Email me on patrick(at)pjphillips.net if you want to go into this seriously. I still would like to see it work:thumb:
    Patrick
     
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