Bewarned if you only use part year

Discussion in 'Motorhome Chat' started by slobadoberbob, May 24, 2011.

  1. slobadoberbob

    slobadoberbob Read Only Funster

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    [​IMG]Motorists are being warned that from 20 June they must insure all vehicles even if kept in the garage. The Continuous Insurance Enforcement law will make it an offence to keep an uninsured vehicle, rather than just to drive when uninsured. It looks like a con trick by insurers to make more money. It will not stop criminals driving with no insurance.



    The Motor Insurers' Bureau (MIB) reckons 1.4 million vehicles are driven uninsured causing 23,000 accidents and killing 160 people a year.

    Adverts

    The MIB is launching a national advertising campaign today to raise awareness of the law. But honest keepers of more than one vehicle could face paying a fortune in even though they have done nothing wrong.

    And the government is in on the con trick. Road safety minister Mike Penning said: "Uninsured drivers are a danger on our roads, killing 160 and injuring a further 23,000 people each year, and they cost honest motorists £500m in extra premiums.

    "That is why we are introducing this tough new law that will leave uninsured drivers with nowhere to hide. Our message is clear – get insured or face a fine, court action or seeing your car seized and destroyed."

    Con trick

    The way the law has been framed fails to target criminals, who will continue to ignore the rules given that fines remain lower than insurance premiums. Instead it hits honest vehicle owners who keep several vehicles at home and insure only the one they need to drive.

    Ashton West, MIB chief executive, said: "The change in law is a stepping up of enforcement activity, so that not only those vehicles driven without insurance will be caught. Now the registered keeper must make sure that their vehicle is insured all the time."

    It is just a cash-generating trick for the insurers that fund the MIB. "Around 4% of vehicles have no motor insurance at any given time, and this needs to change so that is why this new enforcement approach is so important."

    Put on the spot, the MIB cannot say how many unisured vehicles are actually being driven. Its published statement claims that 1.4 million motorists drive uninsured, but when pushed, the MIB admits that all it really knows in that 1.4 million vehicles are uninsured at any time. It has no idea how many of them are driven.

    Under the new system:

    The DVLA and MIB will collaborate to identify uninsured vehicles. Motorists will receive a letter telling them that their vehicle appears to be uninsured and warning them that they will be fined unless they take action. If the keeper fails to insure the vehicle they will be given a £100 fine.

    If the vehicle remains uninsured - regardless of whether the fine is paid – further action will be taken. If the vehicle is on public land it could then be clamped, seized and destroyed. Alternatively court action could be taken, with the offender facing a fine of up to £1,000.

    The only exception will be for vehicles with a valid Statutory Off Road Notice (SORN). They will not be required to be insured.

    So be warned if you lay your motorhome up part year and do not SORN it you could get caught.

    Bob:thumb:
     
  2. Snowbird

    Snowbird Funster Life Member

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    As I understood it if the vehicle was on a SORN it was exempt from the new law.
    Has this changed in any way.
     
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  3. wivvy's dad

    wivvy's dad Read Only Funster

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    Read the penultimate sentence again.....................:Smile:
     
  4. scotjimland

    scotjimland Funster Life Member

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    Frankly I don't see the issue, why would you tax but not insure your motorhome/car .. and even if you SORN it and keep on the drive, it is still at risk from fire and theft.

    This rule is to try and stop those who take out insurance to simply enable taxing then cancel the policy or not keep up the payments.. it certainly won't stop those who drive and have no intention of paying the tax or buying insurance.
     
  5. Landy lover

    Landy lover Funster

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    I do know people who have one insurance and move it between vehicles when they decide to drive them yet have the tax on all of them :Eeek: sometimes just for 6/12 . They seem to think that as they are on their own property they are safe from fire theft etc.

    This new ruling does nothing to stop people flouting the law and driving without insurance and making genuine law abiding motorists pay the cost
     
  6. Wildman

    Wildman Read Only Funster

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    not safe from fire and theft but prepared to cover my own risks, plus if I want to MOT one of the other vehicles I was able to transfer the insurance for a day (leaving the second taxed vehicle parked on the smallholding) Paying tax and insurance on two vehicles at a time is bad enough without taking out yet another insurance just to get a vehicle MOT'd and drive it back home to possibly sit in the workshop being repaired for a further few months. It is just a tax on ownership. time the driver was insured and not the vehicle!!!!!! with seperate fire and theft insurance on the individual vehicle if required.
     
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  7. hilldweller

    hilldweller Funster Life Member

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    And the insurers are making a fool of the government. Now instead of the vehicle lying idle taxed, we have to surrender the licence so taking money out of the public purse. Insurers 1 : Government (us) 0.

    When will they add MOT into the system, no MOT so have to SORN it ?? Possible never because the Geo's of this world do not have the clout to lobby for this.
     
  8. callumwa

    callumwa Read Only Funster

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    The majority of those who drive without insurance do it because they cannot afford it or more often than not they just do not care, and have no concern about others they could affect.

    They do not normally bother to register the cars they are using, so any offence detected by NPR , speed cameras or parking tickets never comes back to them.

    So will they be bothered about Tax discs and SORN? No of course not, not in the slightest.:Doh:

    Yet another draconian law which send out automated penalty notices to normal law abiding folk who have rightfully declared their ownership, and for many reasons may forget or are unable to make these ever tiresome and tedious SORN declarations. But will the faceless computer at DVLA listen.. I don't think so...:Eeek:

    So new proposals to tackle uninsured drivers..... My :moon2: ...

    Just another attack and indirect tax to screw yet more out of the normally law abiding motorist...:cry:...
     
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  9. Terry

    Terry Funster

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    Hi all, as I understand it they are trying to get people to admit which vehicles are owned by who ?
    If you own a vehicle and are not the registered keeper it just makes you register it.If you then do not use it you simply SORN it and keep it off road just like normal :thumb: but now it will be registered to you and as such make you responsible if it is used :thumb:It is a simple way of getting vehicle owners details that responsible owners already do :thumb: If it is neither SORN or registered then they have the law on-side to crush it.
    It will not stop people from doing what they want but they run the risk of the vehicle been taken.It will also stop/keep check on dealers as they will have to register all the cars they have in stock/sold :Wink:
    terry
     
  10. Johns_Cross_Motorhomes

    Johns_Cross_Motorhomes Trader - Motorhome & Accessory Sales

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    We already register all our stock vehicles on the insurance data base and notify DVLA when the vehicle is sold. We don't want the parking and speeding tickets, stops all that.


    Only exeption would be temporary one if I have bought a van and drive it to dealeship but its covered under our trade policy as I can drive anything on that.

    Peter
     
  11. Terry

    Terry Funster

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    Yes Peter I know that :thumb: (just ending my own trade policy)What I ment is it also tells the tax man what you have /not had :Wink:Not for your case but some cash dealers may be affected :Doh::cry::Wink:
    terry
     
  12. callumwa

    callumwa Read Only Funster

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    Do you think so Terry?

    All the good guys, register their vehicles, pay their tax, insure it as required, SORN it if necessary...... they are doing it already.

    The toe-rags who flout the laws, drive without insurance, don't tax their cars, will continue to do the same.
    Do you think they will be concerned if their £200, non MOT'd, non insured, un-taxed banger, gets noticed on the road, gets towed away and crushed. They will not give a toss.

    Just to collect it from a pound will cost more than its worth, so they just go out and get another banger without registering it. Do you think this policy will suddenly make them register these vehicles, on the contrary it will have the opposite effect.

    If the toe-rags actually taxed, (£100 to £400+), insured (£200 to £2000+) and MOT'd (£50 to £1000's) they may actually care, but then they think why pay £100's or £1000's to comply with the law in a car worth £200. If they are not caught whilst actually driving, they don't get caught, full stop!

    So who wins here, nobody except the insurance companies and HMRC.... the good guys pay more in insurance and penalties. The toe-rags laugh!

    Never mind messing around the sides with stupid two bit rules, put more proper Police traffic patrols back on the road, pulling suspect cars over and actually catching, prosecuting and deterring the growing uninsured ranks, who flout and laugh at the rest of us suckers who commit the heinous crime of being law abiding vehicle owners....:shout::shout:

    Callum
     
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  13. Dodgey

    Dodgey Funster

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    Vehicles need fuel, more and more petrol staions are using number plate cameras/recorders to help against drive offs, so if these were linked into police/VOSA/insurance/MOT etc etc databases surely that would be a more efficient way to detect and catch the uninsured/unlicenced/untaxed idiots? You could fit all petrol stations with BIG spikes to scewer the wrong ones:Rofl1: OK maybe not, but an alert to the local police (if there were any) and who knows?

    Just a thought....
     
  14. Terry

    Terry Funster

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    Hi Callum No not for one second do I think it will bother the bad guys :Rofl1: as you say they will not give a toss :Doh:All it is doing is making / giving people chance to register etc,It also gives them the power to take vehicles off peoples drives etc,They often have a trawl around here looking at none taxed cars on peoples drives,but now if not sorn or insured (sorn type) they can get them
    terry
     
  15. scotjimland

    scotjimland Funster Life Member

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    as this pic taken in Glasgow illustrates ( courtesy of Jock ) ... :Laughing:
     

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  16. callumwa

    callumwa Read Only Funster

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    Terry, people already have the chance, in fact a legal obligation, to register the vehicle when they buy it, by completing the relevant section on the V5, Failure to do so is already an offence! Instead of trawling peoples drives to "get them", they should be trawling the roads for moving vehicles committing serious offences endangering the public.

    Why do the authorities want or need powers to take vehicles off peoples driveways. This is a costly time consuming exercise to achieve just what exactly. Will they also want to pry inside my garage? That sounds more like bailiffs rather than Police Officers.

    Surely we should have the right to own a vehicle and keep it safely off the road when we wish, for whatever reason. I can already SORN it to cover the road tax aspect.

    If I have an old scooter in my garage, or a car or motorhome on my drive which I am renovating, why should I have to insure them for third party risk. Is it going to bite the postman?

    It's my property, if its in pieces, does not drive, why do I require Road Traffic act Insurance...... It's not on a road where it can cause a risk to a third party.
    If it is of low value I can choose whether to cover it for fire or theft and take that risk upon myself.

    I just think this is further invasive and unnecessary "Big Brother" legislation to make new revenue streams. It makes no sense to me. :Eeek:

    Callum
     
  17. scotjimland

    scotjimland Funster Life Member

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    Why would you have said project road taxed .. and if it still has tax it's easy to SORN it .. I really don't see what the fuss is about .. . it can lay on your drive untaxed and uninsured. ..

    If they were saying it MUST be insured whether taxed or not, that would be a different story .

    How is this generating an extra revenue steam ? If your renovating it's actually saving you money ..
     
  18. slobadoberbob

    slobadoberbob Read Only Funster

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    I think some of you are missing the point

    I sat back after I posted this article to see what response it got.. certainly different from the RVOC.. I wonder why.

    My take on this is HMRC which was noted in one of the posts. If every vehilcle is taxed and then insured (tax on the insurance) the government gets more revenue from the RFL and the tax on the insurance policy.

    I accept and I did put it in the article towards the end that it has no effect on SWORN vehicles. It is going to hit the likes of Roger (Wildman) who wants to switch cover on any vehicle he is using. His argument and I accept it is that the vehicle is on his land and does not have to be insured. He has it registered and taxed.

    Let me put a spanner in the works if I may.. I for my sins am a director a a housing trust with 70,000 houses in the group. We have lots of ex council estates and council roads and lots of un taxed and un insured vehicles .. yes we do remove them as we are allowed to under the terms of the tenancy agreements.. but there still are thousands in gardens which we do not know if they are insured or even taxed or have an MOT.. we can police our estates but I bet a lot of those in gardens or garages go on the road from time to time.

    As I pay insurance on my RV and two cars and all are taxed and registered it does not effect me. I know it will effect some of you.. it is the ones that forget the SWORN is coming up to renew or have forgotten the insurance issues.

    It may be old news to some of you, but I posted this to draw your attention that the law changes on the 2nd June... i.e next week.

    Please do not shoot the messenger.

    Bob:Eeek:
     
  19. Terry

    Terry Funster

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    Hi Callum you are missing the point :Smile: If you have an old scooter in your garage (I have) it should be registered to you (mine is not :Rofl1:) and then you need to both SORN it and have the equivalent of Sorn for insurance :thumb: You do not have to have it insured :thumb: that's where people are getting mixed up :Eeek: you simply have to have it registered in your name and have a disclaimer for ins same as sorn :Doh::BigGrin:All they want to know is who the owner is :thumb::Doh:
    terry
     
  20. Wildman

    Wildman Read Only Funster

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    i think everyone is missing the point any vehicle that is taxed should be insured. No tax then sorn it and the insurance then becomes a matter of choice. It will however stop me moving insurance from one vehicle to another even though I insure owner only driving and my wife does not drive.Both my van and motorhome insurances refund sod all if surrendered before the term is up
    so effectively I may have to take out a third insurance just to take one of the landrovers for an MOT. (oh yes and have to remember to SORN it straight after the MOT if not going straight on the road even if it already declared SORN)
    Time I think for horse and cart, much cheaper to run.
     
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