Beware the speed gantry cams on the M25 are now officially switched on.. (1 Viewer)

[buttons]

I'm sure I read somewhere that there were Weight in Motion system sensors set into the surface of some motorways- eg M25 and M6 -with cameras on overhead gantries to take number plate photos of overweight vehicles with a view to pulling them in further on. I know there was a big and successful trial some years ago and we have watched more overhead gantries put up, which we assume were part of this system.

Not come across this but then I only weigh 17 stone.

 

[Eeyore]

Not come across this but then I only weigh 17 stone.

This is why people are not encouraged to jog on the M25. They set the sensors off.

 

[Jaws]

It makes no difference whatsoever what you use to set it. Set it for 3 mph under the limit instead of 10mph over and you won't have a problem.

Perhaps I'm just too considerate, thinking of the frustration lined up behind me with drivers all using their legal sat setting. A few mph can make a huge difference on a busy M25 when all lanes are full. We need to have clarification and an idea what is a safe 70mph to travel at and what speed cams are set at.

I am 100% with Buttons on this
Anyone slowing the traffic flow for any reason is either inconsiderate or worse.

I am not sure Nick, you grasp the massive difference in speed there can be between the sat nav and speedo
Nowadays, a lot of speedo's are quite accurate, but an awful lot are WAY out
An indicated 70mph on any Honda motorcycle will probably be closer to 63mph ( they are almost all 10% generous )

If the traffic flow is running at 70 and you are in a vehicle that is legal at 70 on a motorway, and you drive at 3mph under the speed limit AS INDICATED by the speedo, you will very often be 10mph slower than the traffic flow.

Ask anyone ever involved with traffic management and they will tell you it only takes one person doing that to start quite a large traffic jam ( concertina effect.. brake lights come on and before too long that one set of lights on the vehicle that has reduced progress by say 3 mph has worked its way back down the traffic until there are vehicle doing less than 10 mph !)

Now I am not advocating anyone drive either outside their comfort zone or in a manor likely to cause stress to them selves or others..
Neither am I saying ANYONE is wrong or right about the speed they, the individual, travels at

All I am pointing out is that the question asked "go by the the speedo of the sat nav" is quite valid

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[Eeyore]

This was then...don't know if they are still active or have been developed but my guess, based on proliferation of overhead gantries, is yes.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/vosa-weigh-in-motion-wim-sites-f0004537

http://www.transportsfriend.org/enforcement/wims.html

 

[buttons]

I am 100% with Buttons on this
Anyone slowing the traffic flow for any reason is either inconsiderate or worse.

I am not sure Nick, you grasp the massive difference in speed there can be between the sat nav and speedo
Nowadays, a lot of speedo's are quite accurate, but an awful lot are WAY out
An indicated 70mph on any Honda motorcycle will probably be closer to 63mph ( they are almost all 10% generous )

If the traffic flow is running at 70 and you are in a vehicle that is legal at 70 on a motorway, and you drive at 3mph under the speed limit AS INDICATED by the speedo, you will very often be 10mph slower than the traffic flow.

Ask anyone ever involved with traffic management and they will tell you it only takes one person doing that to start quite a large traffic jam ( concertina effect.. brake lights come on and before too long that one set of lights on the vehicle that has reduced progress by say 3 mph has worked its way back down the traffic until there are vehicle doing less than 10 mph !)

Now I am not advocating anyone drive either outside their comfort zone or in a manor likely to cause stress to them selves or others..
Neither am I saying ANYONE is wrong or right about the speed they, the individual, travels at

All I am pointing out is that the question asked "go by the the speedo of the sat nav" is quite valid

Spot on jaws, break lights on a dark wet busy motorway are never good, if everyone was traveling at a given speed then throttle adjustment is all that is needed, braking shouldn't be required.
I think like speed cams behind trees, obscure speed limits are a way of maximising the revenue collected.

 

[DuxDeluxe]

This was then...don't know if they are still active or have been developed but my guess, based on proliferation of overhead gantries, is yes.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/vosa-weigh-in-motion-wim-sites-f0004537

http://www.transportsfriend.org/enforcement/wims.html

I think it was Gareth of SV Tech who made a FOI request about WIM and the response was very cagy to say the least. The response said 10 sites but according to my son who is a highways engineer there are more than that, now. And they work.

Agree with Jaws and Buttons about the keeping speed and not braking - all it needs is a bit of anticipation (and lane discipline which in light traffic means keeping left and in heavy traffic mostly keeping your lane and not keep swapping. White van man and Audi drivers please note)

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[Eeyore]

I think it was Gareth of SV Tech who made a FOI request about WIM and the response was very cagy to say the least. The response said 10 sites but according to my son who is a highways engineer there are more than that, now. And they work.
)

That's why I wonder if these overhead speed cameras are actually speed cameras only. There is a lot about this in horse box drivers, white man drivers etc forums as well as questions in parliament about the M25 WIMS. Not surprisingly the powers that be are cagey about where they are but the Surrey police put up photos of vans they catch.

 

[buttons]

I think it was Gareth of SV Tech who made a FOI request about WIM and the response was very cagy to say the least. The response said 10 sites but according to my son who is a highways engineer there are more than that, now. And they work.

Agree with Jaws and Buttons about the keeping speed and not braking - all it needs is a bit of anticipation (and lane discipline which in light traffic means keeping left and in heavy traffic mostly keeping your lane and not keep swapping. White van man and Audi drivers please note)

Audi....wash your mouth out. Surely you meant BMW

 

[Deleted member 29692]

If the traffic flow is running at 70 and you are in a vehicle that is legal at 70 on a motorway, and you drive at 3mph under the speed limit AS INDICATED by the speedo, you will very often be 10mph slower than the traffic flow.

That's fine. I have no problem with that at all.

Perhaps I'm just too considerate, thinking of the frustration lined up behind me with drivers all using their legal sat setting. A few mph can make a huge difference on a busy M25 when all lanes are full. We need to have clarification and an idea what is a safe 70mph to travel at and what speed cams are set at.

I am 100% with Buttons on this
Anyone slowing the traffic flow for any reason is either inconsiderate or worse.

I am not sure Nick, you grasp the massive difference in speed there can be between the sat nav and speedo
Nowadays, a lot of speedo's are quite accurate, but an awful lot are WAY out
An indicated 70mph on any Honda motorcycle will probably be closer to 63mph ( they are almost all 10% generous )

If the traffic flow is running at 70 and you are in a vehicle that is legal at 70 on a motorway, and you drive at 3mph under the speed limit AS INDICATED by the speedo, you will very often be 10mph slower than the traffic flow.

Ask anyone ever involved with traffic management and they will tell you it only takes one person doing that to start quite a large traffic jam ( concertina effect.. brake lights come on and before too long that one set of lights on the vehicle that has reduced progress by say 3 mph has worked its way back down the traffic until there are vehicle doing less than 10 mph !)

Now I am not advocating anyone drive either outside their comfort zone or in a manor likely to cause stress to them selves or others..
Neither am I saying ANYONE is wrong or right about the speed they, the individual, travels at

All I am pointing out is that the question asked "go by the the speedo of the sat nav" is quite valid

The speed LIMIT is just that. A limit, not a minimum target. If someone behind me is in that much of a hurry he can't wait a minute for an opportunity to overtake that's his problem, not mine. I'll drive at the speed I want, not the speed someone else thinks I should.

As far as I'm aware using a sat nav as to measure your speed is not a legal alternative to a functioning speedometer and until that changes I'll be going by the indicated speed on my speedometer and I'll be setting my cruise control, when I use it, to just under the speed limit as indicated. I couldn't care less whether the person behind me likes it or not.

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[Deleted member 29692]

Perhaps I'm just too considerate, thinking of the frustration lined up behind me with drivers all using their legal sat setting. A few mph can make a huge difference on a busy M25 when all lanes are full. We need to have clarification and an idea what is a safe 70mph to travel at and what speed cams are set at.

What if everyone else was doing 95mph? Are you advocating that I should as well so as not to be "inconsiderate" to the traffic flow?

Your argument does not stand up.

 

[buttons]

What if everyone else was doing 95mph? Are you advocating that I should as well so as not to be "inconsiderate" to the traffic flow?

Your argument does not stand up.

I think I will move on now........

 

[Deleted member 29692]

Are people really in so much of a hurry that they need to work out how much over their indicated speed limit they can go in order to be pushing right up to the actual limit?

That's quite sad.

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[MR. FUSION]

Perhaps I'm just too considerate, thinking of the frustration lined up behind me with drivers all using their legal sat setting. A few mph can make a huge difference on a busy M25 when all lanes are full. We need to have clarification and an idea what is a safe 70mph to travel at and what speed cams are set at.

That is the funniest thing I have read on MHF in a long time.....have you tried it in court

 

[MR. FUSION]

Are people really in so much of a hurry that they need to work out how much over their indicated speed limit they can go in order to be pushing right up to the actual limit?

That's quite sad.

If I go above 60 in the MH, the fuel consumption plummets, so I will continue to battle it out with the lorry driving psychopaths on dual carriageways and motorways.

 

[maison]

If speed cameras are set at 72 mph as suggested, and one is placed on a downhill section, the chances are that gravity alone could lead to a fine if the driver does not actively brake regularly.

In our area we have several 30 mph cameras positioned on steep downhill sections that regularly catch people at 35 mph as a result.

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[Ivory55]

The fines will only apply to British registered motors, how many foreign motors use the tunnel every day and do not pay ? They will say not cost effective to collect the money.

 

[Badknee]

I have just done my CPC for my LGV licence, WIM is out there and active and fines are issued both by post and by a pull.
The example we were shown was a six wheel rigid with a crane behind the cab (Hiab etc) carrying a porta cabin towing a twin axle trailer also carrying a cabin.
Axle two and three and both trailer axles were fine but axle one on the rigid was quite a bit overweight and it was pulled. It transpired that the crane had been retro fitted and made axle one overloaded and an eight wheel chassis would have been the right choice.
The rig was travelling at 56mph when the weigh took place.
In my best Dad's Army voice, were doomed I say, were all doomed.

 

[grumps147]

I think you need to use your google search tools to find the M25 cam news. Read this if you dont believe the police get the fines for speed cams.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-34719997

See 8/9/10 on the faq's in link below. Looks like the PCC in Bedfordshire is either going to be disappointed or manipulating funding illegally. When funds from penaltues are given back to partnerships via a bidding process it seems to be classified as 'netting off' which has quite strict rules. I can't find anything that supersedes this, but several other links that confirm this. http://www.prsp.org.uk/faqs/general.aspx

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[Deleted member 29692]

If speed cameras are set at 72 mph as suggested, and one is placed on a downhill section, the chances are that gravity alone could lead to a fine if the driver does not actively brake regularly.

In our area we have several 30 mph cameras positioned on steep downhill sections that regularly catch people at 35 mph as a result.

Bad driving. Those drivers aren't in proper control of their vehicles.

 

[GJH]

They do but fines to subsidies police austerity budget cuts is a bit against the grain dont you think.

It doesn't matter who is the recipient of monies from volunteers who would rather pay extra than obey the law.

 

[PeteH]

The Police and Crime Commissioners admitted to-day that they are intended to be used as "revenue tools". After spending years trying to kid us they are about Safety!

Watching the speedo` Is not conducive to watching the road IMHO. Hence I like my "Cruise Control". Allows me to watch for Kids and Idiots, without risking the Fines. Biggest issue is that Most "Cruise" do not operate below 30mph, and are unsuitable for such roads. although some "Limiters" will. Most modern vehicles due to being geared for economy, WILL "creep" above a 30 limit if not watched!, especially Auto`s. The last Vehicle SWMBO had used to annoy me as IF you kept it to a 50 limit. the fuel consumption was greater than at 60! due to the fact that it dropped into 5th (Auto Box) at 50 and went back to 6th at around 54MPH!.

Pete

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[PeteH]

As backup, the "Road Angel" (other brands are available) also warns me of cameras.

AND are totally ILLEGAL to even posses in some EU countries, never mind use!. I was advised NOT to have the "Traffic Camera" (Tom Tom) facility loaded when in France as far back as 2005.

Pete

 

[GJH]

If speed cameras are set at 72 mph as suggested, and one is placed on a downhill section, the chances are that gravity alone could lead to a fine if the driver does not actively brake regularly.

In our area we have several 30 mph cameras positioned on steep downhill sections that regularly catch people at 35 mph as a result.

That's their fault for not reducing their speed accordingly then.

 

[MR. FUSION]

The Police and Crime Commissioners admitted to-day that they are intended to be used as "revenue tools". After spending years trying to kid us they are about Safety!

Watching the speedo` Is not conducive to watching the road IMHO. Hence I like my "Cruise Control". Allows me to watch for Kids and Idiots, without risking the Fines. Biggest issue is that Most "Cruise" do not operate below 30mph, and are unsuitable for such roads. although some "Limiters" will. Most modern vehicles due to being geared for economy, WILL "creep" above a 30 limit if not watched!. The last Vehicle SWMBO had used to annoy me as IF you kept it to a 50 limit. the fuel consumption was greater than at 60! due to the fact that it dropped into 5th (Auto Box) at 50 and went back to 6th at around 54MPH!.

Pete

As well as cruise control I got the speed limiter on my fiat ducato base vehicle. should be standard on all vehicles I think. It does take the pressure off having to drive to a speed limit, then drive and navigate at the same time! I really like it, especially for France.

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[Jaws]

That's fine. I have no problem with that at all.





The speed LIMIT is just that. A limit, not a minimum target. If someone behind me is in that much of a hurry he can't wait a minute for an opportunity to overtake that's his problem, not mine. I'll drive at the speed I want, not the speed someone else thinks I should.

As far as I'm aware using a sat nav as to measure your speed is not a legal alternative to a functioning speedometer and until that changes I'll be going by the indicated speed on my speedometer and I'll be setting my cruise control, when I use it, to just under the speed limit as indicated. I couldn't care less whether the person behind me likes it or not.

Sorry.. Wrong.. Actually the speedo is no longer a legal requirement as such..
It is now defined as 'a device to measure the vehicles speed'

As sat navs are on average less than 1% out they are indeed far better at fulfilling the legal requirement .
If it was not for the possibility of loosing sat signals in built up areas ( and indeed mountainous ones ) all speedos would by now be entirely sat controlled ( this from the Vehicle operators and manufacturers conference attended last year )

I'll drive at the speed I want, not the speed someone else thinks I should.

Which is precisely what I said in my previous post

However, the attitude being displayed ( I will do what I want no matter what inconvenience to others it may cause ) is not one encouraged by either the police forces of the UK or any ( as far as I am aware at least ) road safety organisations ( even BRAKE who come up with some of the most outrageous ideas imaginable !!! )

 

[Eeyore]

I've been driving our current car long enough that I know the exact note the engine makes at various speed limits and so don't have to look down.

Things like Road Angel etc and speed camera warnings on sat navs strike me as designed with the idea that drivers are automatically going to exceed the limit and need advanced warning so they can slow down in time.

Much more useful would be a transmitter at the beginning of a speed limit enforcement area so that you had an audible warning when it began. I find the everr changing French and Spanish limits as you drive through villages etc a bit of a trial.

 

[Deleted member 29692]

Sorry.. Wrong.. Actually the speedo is no longer a legal requirement as such..
It is now defined as 'a device to measure the vehicles speed'

As sat navs are on average less than 1% out they are indeed far better at fulfilling the legal requirement .
If it was not for the possibility of loosing sat signals in built up areas ( and indeed mountainous ones ) all speedos would by now be entirely sat controlled ( this from the Vehicle operators and manufacturers conference attended last year )

Still an MOT failure not to have such a device and a sat nav is not an acceptable alternative. For all practical purposes it has to be a speedo.

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[Jaws]

As an aside, I think many folks would be shocked at just how high a speed the cameras and Truvelo systems are set to..
You are certainly not going to trigger anything at 72 mph, nor indeed much higher speeds !! ( though to be honest I am more than reluctant to reveal what those speeds are as it will only encourage some people to 'push the envelope' )

 

[Deleted member 29692]

However, the attitude being displayed ( I will do what I want no matter what inconvenience to others it may cause ) is not one encouraged by either the police forces of the UK or any ( as far as I am aware at least ) road safety organisations ( even BRAKE who come up with some of the most outrageous ideas imaginable !!! )

Let me ask you the same question that Mr Buttons has so far refused to answer.

What if the flow of traffic is well in excess of the speed limit. I've encountered this plenty of times even if you haven't

In that situation are you advocating exceeding the speed limit in order not to be "inconsiderate"?

 

[Jaws]

Still an MOT failure not to have such a device and a sat nav is not an acceptable alternative. For all practical purposes it has to be a speedo.

And wrong again..
I have both a car and a motorcycle that has no lights at all and no speedo at all.. Both are absolutely road legal

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