Beware of Re-Mapping or Chipping (1 Viewer)

Motorhome Man

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Hi all, if your thinking of remapping or chipping your motorhome beware. My own experience of chipping our Fiat Ducato 2.8 JTD was that fantastic additional power was achieved but on a long steep hill near the top the revs shot up as the clutch started to slip. The power increase from the chip is probably 20% but the standard clutch isn't man enough to take the additional torque. Larkspeed, a performance parts supplier recommend a stage 3 clutch to any diesel that has been chipped or mapped to handle this additional torque. Obviously motorhomes are almost always on or invariably over their gross weights and things like clutches and brakes are worked to their limit. The additional power from remapping/chipping needs a stronger drive train. A stage 3 clutch is £400 so i wonder if the fuel saving is worth it. I have disconnected mine. My van has only done 12000 miles and i don't fancy a new clutch just yet. Hope others find this helpful. Regards Luke
 
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Motorhome Man

Motorhome Man

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Mitzimad
Yes sorry, should have mentioned it was a performance/economy plug in box from a german supplier on ebay.

Luke.

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Apr 29, 2014
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Is that your van a two axle which is about three ton 2.8 127 bop can understand sometimes we need more torque but I have a tag axle chieftain and fully loaded is over 4 1/2 ton I don't race and am quite happy at the performance in fact surprised sometimes so each to there own I suppose
 

funflair

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Mitzimad
Yes sorry, should have mentioned it was a performance/economy plug in box from a german supplier on ebay.

Luke.
So to be fair, yours was neither re-mapped or chipped, so possibly the title should read beware "performance plug in boxes".

Martin

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Mar 23, 2012
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So to be fair, yours was neither re-mapped or chipped, so possibly the title should read beware "performance plug in boxes".

Martin
Or if you up your engine power bits will wear out more quickly not as snappy but when you think about it inevitable
 

Geo

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Assuming a Standard clutch (The only one that I know is available) as they don't even make a heavy duty version is a
Stage 1
Please define a Stage 2 Clutch
Please define a Stage 3 Clutch
In as much as, how and where they differ from standard and who makes them?
I ask because much as cylinder heads are sold as "Stage" 1,2, or 3 there is no actual definitive of what they are.
One mans stage 3 is another mans stage 1.

Hyperthetical Example
Here at our Garage you can have for £80 a ------- Stage 1 (y) -----------------------------Cheap Chinese clutch
A better clutch for £100--------------------------------Stage 2 ;) ---------------------------- Better quality Brown Box aftermarket clutch
For £130 to £180----------------------------------------Stage 3 / 4 / 5:cool:-----------------------Borg and Beck, Valeo, LUK clutch
For £245-------------------------------------------------Stage 6 :whistle: ------------------------------Genuine Fiat clutch
WOW a STAGE 6 Clutch:hot:

See where this is going :rolleyes:
I can call em what I like, NONE of them however are Heavy Duty,Extra Strong High Pressure etc
Unless you go to a racing clutch specialist and have one bespoke made for you ££££££££££££££ and I doubt they will:crying1:
Prove me wrong
Geo
 
Jan 28, 2008
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heavy duty clutches if such a beast exists need strong legs to use unless you can change the hydraulics or leverage on a cable

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Geo

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Can we also whilst on the subject dispel the myth that bolt on chip boxes are crap
coming from a racing background I can without fear of ridicule ask, Whats makes a crap map wrote to your ECU, better than a superior map in a bolt on box?
If you dont get it let me explain maps are written by many so called "Experts" its the quality of the expert and the map that matters not how its delivered
Bolt on mapping should NEVER be confused with Go Faster e bay chips in a box
Reasonable quality dyno tested ECU Map change, circa £300-£400 (written for a generic version of your engine not dyno'd in your van)
Reasonable quality dyno tested Bolt on Box Map circa £300-£400 (written for a generic version of your engine not dyno'd in your van) (maybe a bit extra for the pcb and box)and can contain 3 maps one either side of the considered best with adjustments if deemed necessary.
The name eludes me at the Mo but the first and thought of as the very best was a bolt on. till the company folded
Go faster Box e-bay £39.00 £100 + simple over fueling trickery
The Benefit of a "Proper Maped Box" is, you can take it off for Main dealer servicing if you fear warranty issues and re fit when done
You can take it off when you sell the van, and have it re mapped at often less than half the cost because you already own the hardware
Downside to ECU map is it could be over written back to standard by the Main agent during warranty call backs/servicing/rectifications to software
When the van goes it goes with it and you pay full price again
So For and Against, you will all have your reasons why you went the way you did.
Just lets drop the " Bolt on's are crap Mentality"

For the sake of fairness

I will add, Some Bolt ons are absolute crap

AND some ECU remaps are absolute crap too

Research your chosen mapper before you go ahead with either option and remember
Correct mapping Will Not Cause Clutch Damage.
It will however show up or accelerate the wear on an already worn clutch
Geo
 
Dec 24, 2009
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When I bought my Bessacar new in 2009 I spoke to a guy in Fiat customer services with regard to "Juddegate" as people called it he agreed that Fiat would do the necessary mods, IE lower reverse gear stiffer engine mounts etc.

Off the van went to the local Fiat professional dealer and when I collected the van a few days later they informed me they had done all the work with the parts supplied by Fiat and that it included a heavy duty clutch too.

Now I don't know it one exists or not! But I do know that the clutch on the Bessie was certainly a lot stiffer after the gearbox mods than it was before the work was carried out!!

Just saying.......
 

Steve

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It would look like they now make what i would call a paddle clutch which would be a great improvement.
Steve

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Last edited:

Forestboy

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Hi all, if your thinking of remapping or chipping your motorhome beware. My own experience of chipping our Fiat Ducato 2.8 JTD was that fantastic additional power was achieved but on a long steep hill near the top the revs shot up as the clutch started to slip. The power increase from the chip is probably 20% but the standard clutch isn't man enough to take the additional torque. Larkspeed, a performance parts supplier recommend a stage 3 clutch to any diesel that has been chipped or mapped to handle this additional torque. Obviously motorhomes are almost always on or invariably over their gross weights and things like clutches and brakes are worked to their limit. The additional power from remapping/chipping needs a stronger drive train. A stage 3 clutch is £400 so i wonder if the fuel saving is worth it. I have disconnected mine. My van has only done 12000 miles and i don't fancy a new clutch just yet. Hope others find this helpful. Regards Luke


@Motorhome Man
Get ready for a bashing.
Had exactly the same problems after remapping by WOW / Quantum and its well documented on here. But get shot down every time I mention it on here.
 

scotjimland

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I don't get the whole Motorhome remapping thing.
What's the rush? You're on holiday!:)

agreed (y)

I'm more than happy with the performance, it can go faster than the law allows..

but I'm quite content to tootle along .. no rush

never understood the 'need for speed' in an ice cream van .. :LOL:

I'd be very interested in one of these magic boxes that ALSO increases MPG :rolleyes:
 

Steve

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it does say improved drivability but i had a paddle clutch on a race car many years ago and it was a fierce beast took me nearly half the season to really master it
Yes they do bite a bit but i have never worn one out. But may consider one when mine gives up but remap 3 years now and still ok
 

Geo

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Thats the Daddy
A proper map for the job in hand(y)
 
Jul 13, 2008
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Still waiting for stage 3 clutch info. Maybe meant 3 piece!
 
May 31, 2015
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Can we also whilst on the subject dispel the myth that bolt on chip boxes are crap
coming from a racing background I can without fear of ridicule ask, Whats makes a crap map wrote to your ECU, better than a superior map in a bolt on box?
If you dont get it let me explain maps are written by many so called "Experts" its the quality of the expert and the map that matters not how its delivered
Bolt on mapping should NEVER be confused with Go Faster e bay chips in a box
Reasonable quality dyno tested ECU Map change, circa £300-£400 (written for a generic version of your engine not dyno'd in your van)
Reasonable quality dyno tested Bolt on Box Map circa £300-£400 (written for a generic version of your engine not dyno'd in your van) (maybe a bit extra for the pcb and box)and can contain 3 maps one either side of the considered best with adjustments if deemed necessary.
The name eludes me at the Mo but the first and thought of as the very best was a bolt on. till the company folded
Go faster Box e-bay £39.00 £100 + simple over fueling trickery
The Benefit of a "Proper Maped Box" is, you can take it off for Main dealer servicing if you fear warranty issues and re fit when done
You can take it off when you sell the van, and have it re mapped at often less than half the cost because you already own the hardware
Downside to ECU map is it could be over written back to standard by the Main agent during warranty call backs/servicing/rectifications to software
When the van goes it goes with it and you pay full price again
So For and Against, you will all have your reasons why you went the way you did.
Just lets drop the " Bolt on's are crap Mentality"

For the sake of fairness

I will add, Some Bolt ons are absolute crap

AND some ECU remaps are absolute crap too

Research your chosen mapper before you go ahead with either option and remember
Correct mapping Will Not Cause Clutch Damage.
It will however show up or accelerate the wear on an already worn clutch
Geo

Absolutely ...(y)

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Motorhome Man

Motorhome Man

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hi all, once again, people have missed the point, i am only trying to make others aware of the problems with fitting after market parts. I wasn't looking for more power, i'm quite happy with the performance of the engine, i was looking for better fuel economy, and after reading and understanding how the chip works i fitted it. It would still be on my van now had the original parts, ie pressure and drive plate of the clutch been man enough. The bottom line here is ' beware' of fitting these items as you "may" have problems. Thanks all. Luke
 

MC 55 FUN

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Bluefin by Superchips is a removable, storable map, so no issues with overwriting when your vehicle is being serviced - if you temporarily remove it prior.
 
Last edited:

Jaws

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Can we also whilst on the subject dispel the myth that bolt on chip boxes are crap
coming from a racing background I can without fear of ridicule ask, Whats makes a crap map wrote to your ECU, better than a superior map in a bolt on box?
If you dont get it let me explain maps are written by many so called "Experts" its the quality of the expert and the map that matters not how its delivered
Bolt on mapping should NEVER be confused with Go Faster e bay chips in a box
Reasonable quality dyno tested ECU Map change, circa £300-£400 (written for a generic version of your engine not dyno'd in your van)
Reasonable quality dyno tested Bolt on Box Map circa £300-£400 (written for a generic version of your engine not dyno'd in your van) (maybe a bit extra for the pcb and box)and can contain 3 maps one either side of the considered best with adjustments if deemed necessary.
The name eludes me at the Mo but the first and thought of as the very best was a bolt on. till the company folded
Go faster Box e-bay £39.00 £100 + simple over fueling trickery
The Benefit of a "Proper Maped Box" is, you can take it off for Main dealer servicing if you fear warranty issues and re fit when done
You can take it off when you sell the van, and have it re mapped at often less than half the cost because you already own the hardware
Downside to ECU map is it could be over written back to standard by the Main agent during warranty call backs/servicing/rectifications to software
When the van goes it goes with it and you pay full price again
So For and Against, you will all have your reasons why you went the way you did.
Just lets drop the " Bolt on's are crap Mentality"

For the sake of fairness

I will add, Some Bolt ons are absolute crap

AND some ECU remaps are absolute crap too

Research your chosen mapper before you go ahead with either option and remember
Correct mapping Will Not Cause Clutch Damage.
It will however show up or accelerate the wear on an already worn clutch
Geo


I am currently running a Torquing of Diesel box. Helped a lot on economy.. So I am def not of the all box's are crap camp
I would say though, it is important to get one from a good source.. One that can offer back up and advice on fine tuning as Torquing of Diesel can

I have always either remapped or used a box to gain better fuel figures through added torque and fewer gear changes... Bugger all to do with going fast !

Anyone who has traveled with me when we are in the van will know I rarely go over 55 :)

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MC 55 FUN

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The MAIN reason most knowledgeable people remap a diesel is for extra torque, which improves the driveability of the vehicle.

Extra bhp & possible fuel benefits are a minor benefit i.m.o.

There are, as stated, potential downsides to remapping - dependent on the vehicle / engine / drivetrain in question.

Even the best box on the market only alters fuel & air settings as ALL boxes ride piggyback on the vehicle's ECU - which remains in control of all other original mapped settings.
 

DuxDeluxe

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hi all, once again, people have missed the point, i am only trying to make others aware of the problems with fitting after market parts. I wasn't looking for more power, i'm quite happy with the performance of the engine, i was looking for better fuel economy, and after reading and understanding how the chip works i fitted it. It would still be on my van now had the original parts, ie pressure and drive plate of the clutch been man enough. The bottom line here is ' beware' of fitting these items as you "may" have problems. Thanks all. Luke
Thanks - remap threads are a bit like grey waste threads.... Noted that it is a 2.8 diesel the vehicle may be 10 years old or more. As a matter of interest, how many miles did you have when the clutch went? It may have been on the way out anyway, or a previous owner drove whilst riding the clutch or really caned it when getting up on levelling blocks.......
 

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