Autotrail woes (1 Viewer)

[knokinonabit]

the 3ltr x250 has never had any modifications regarding Juddergate, according to my source at Fiat none are necessary. My previous Auto-Trail was a 3ltr and was no trouble at all, it was only when the 2.3's problems were sorted that I decided to get one. The 3ltr was very thirsty but sound.

Unfortunately your Fiat source is wrong, or mis-informed.
It is the 3ltr that has the most problems with the judder and the only reason that no mods are necessary is that none are available.
The official cure, from Fiat in Italy, is to increase the revs when reversing.

This is well documented elsewhere and has been ongoing for a number of years.

You are right when you say that the 3ltr is sound, it is reverse gear which is too high. As you say, thirsty but sound. :thumb:

 

[knokinonabit]

More updates

After our visit to the factory (see thread Auto-Trail visit) we took advice from them re faults.

Basically, I sent an e-mail to the dealer listing all of the outstanding faullts and complaints and expressing my dissatisfaction with the service we had recieved so far, and stating that if asked I would not recommend Auto-Trail to anyone. I also copied in the Auto-trail factory.

Result. I have just had a phone call from the dealers after-sales manager, who had just had a phone call from Auto-Trail, and I am taking the MH in to them on Saturday morning to go through everything with him and get it sorted.

Needless to say there were all sorts of excuses and apologies, but at last I feel that I am getting somewhere. We will see.

Faults listed, in no particular order:
Gas bottle locker door fouls on gas bottles and won't close properly. Correct gas bottles are fitted. Factory are looking at how to rectify with a modification !!!!
The main habitation light sometimes won't switch on, and sometimes won't switch off. They have never had this problem before and unless it happens at their workshop they can't do anything about it, as they can't trace the fault.
The habitation door handle surround has a crack in it (from new) and was supposed to have been replaced as a matter of urgency. Still waiting for a new one to arrive from the factory.
Both the fresh and grey water drain taps leak (from new) and were supposed to have been replaced. As above, still waiting.
The nearside side facing seat is starting to fall apart. It has never been used as a bed and has only been sat on by "normal" sized people, not giants. Repaired straight away by dealer.
It would appear that at some time whilst the MH was in the dealer show room the hob glass cover has been broken and replaced as we keep getting glass appearing on the hob. Nobody has a clue and glass still appearing from nowhere.
The reversing camera has only worked intermittantly from new and has been identified by the dealer as a faulty camera head. Still waiting for replacement. Dealers technicians had a look and could find no fault and re-assembled it. Whatever was loose is now secure and it works oh:
I asked the factory if they could confirm that the water tanks had heating elements fitted, and gave them the build number so they could check their records. They suggested that I should crawl under the MH to see if I could see any wires poking out. I asked if they could tell me which are the level sensor wires and which the heating element wires. Still waiting for an answer. Dealers technicians crawled underneath (the pit was occupied) and could not confirm yes or no. When it goes back for outstanding jobs they will investigate properly.

The habitation door had started to catch on the bottom of the door frame, making it dificult to open the door, especially from the inside. Dealer technicians rectified straight away.

The grey waste water level sensor is reading either half or quarter full, even when the tank is empty. Waiting for new sensor to arrive from the factory.

Finally, the V5 has gone back to Swansea for the 3rd time as it still has the wrong weight down for the MH. At last the V5 has been returned from Swansea and all appears to be correct.

So I am still waiting for satisfaction and unless I carry a dealer technician around with me for when the lights go wrong again, it would seem that I am never going to achieve it.

Would I have another Auto-Trail ? No chance.
Now I can't afford to lose a lot of money replacing it, so it looks like I am stuck with it for the forseeable future.
I actually don't think I would ever buy new again. There are some seriously good 2nd hand MHs on the market, and they are not that old for very reasonable money. It's been an expensive lesson to learn.

 

[hilldweller]

I actually don't think I would ever buy new again. There are some seriously good 2nd hand MHs on the market, and they are not that old for very reasonable money. It's been an expensive lesson to learn.

Quoted for the sake of others.

As you know from recent posts, you are not alone in here getting a sub standard new van though from memory you've done far far better than some, you've not had a fire due to faulty wiring.

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[knokinonabit]

As you know from recent posts, you are not alone in here getting a sub standard new van though from memory you've done far far better than some, you've not had a fire due to faulty wiring.

I agree 100% with you.

The problem really is that you should not spend a lot of hard earned cash on something that you want to last a long time, only to find it is faulty from the outset. Regardless of the level of the faults, the point is, there shouldn't be any.

Well, not in an ideal world, anyway

 

[msyd]

Autotrail Habitation Lights

We had a 2012 Delaware from new. Had all sorts of problems with incorrect readings from tank sensors..... turned out to be a poor earth - sorted by our dealer. The problem with habitation light switch intermittently not working must be some sort of software glitch in the Sargent control unit.... ours would often either not switch on/off, but if you tried it a few minutes later it worked fine. As pointed out, it is unlikely ever to fail when a technician is watching it! We sold our MH after our big holiday, and will definitely buy another new Delaware (with reservations) next year.























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[knokinonabit]

We had a 2012 Delaware from new. Had all sorts of problems with incorrect readings from tank sensors..... turned out to be a poor earth - sorted by our dealer. The problem with habitation light switch intermittently not working must be some sort of software glitch in the Sargent control unit.... ours would often either not switch on/off, but if you tried it a few minutes later it worked fine. As pointed out, it is unlikely ever to fail when a technician is watching it! We sold our MH after our big holiday, and will definitely buy another new Delaware (with reservations) next year.























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Thanks for the advice.
We are on our third Sargent control unit and have had exactly the same fault with the lights each time.
It's possible you are correct about the faulty earth on the gauges, but the sensors are prone to failing, so we will have to wait and see.
Nothing else has changed from the factory since the last update.
At the dealers we took the bottle retaining straps out of the gas locker and the bottles fitted perfectly. Had to put them back in to stop the bottles rolling around. We are now waiting for the factory to come up with some kind of modification.
Not holding my breath.

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[WhiteCheyenneMan]

Our 2008 Cheyenne had only 4576 miles on the clock when we bought it in 2011. The Control Panel kept going beserk without warning (easily reset each time but very irritating) and the water pump (habitation) kept stopping, usually when I was in the shower :Angry.

Dealer found a loose earth connection right behind the Sargent switchgear/control unit. Both have behaved since then

 

[knokinonabit]

Thanks for your suggestions mysd and WhiteCheyenneMan.
There seems to be a theme running here with loose earth connections.
I will contact my dealer and see what he comes up with.

Going outside now to wash the roof of the MH.
Where did all the sunshine go ? :Sad:

 

[knokinonabit]

Latest update

Gas bottle locker door won't close with 2x13kg bottles in : Still waiting for an answer/fix from Auto-Trail.
Main habitation light sometimes won't switch off or on : Still have the problem and still can't be traced. Leave the switch alone for a few minutes and the lights work normally.
Crack in habitation door handle surround from new : Still waiting for a new one from Auto-Trail.
Both fresh and grey water drain taps have leaked from new : Still waiting for new ones from Auto-Trail.
The factory have confirmed that a water tank heating element has not been fitted to theMH, even though the wiring is there and the switch is live.
Grey waste water tank gauge reads half full even when empty : Again, waiting for a new one from the factory.
Since the last update :
The raise up section of the bed, to access the storage area, had come away from the bed frame where the bonding and staples that join it had parted : Repaired it myself using screws.
The cupboard door in the toilet has started to come away from the cupboard frame : I will repair this using longer, more substantial screws.
The large curved kitchen door under the sink unit fell off whilst we were driving due to the small screws used by the factory pulling out of the cupboard wall : Temporarily repaired using longer screws, but these will be substituted (by me) for small coach bolts through holes drilled through from adjoining cupboard.
The plastic trim surrounding the shower entrance has been made too short and won't stay in place and leaves a gap at the top : Just noticed this today so another phone call to the dealer.

I daren't look too close at anything on the MH now as I am bound to find more stuff that is wrong. Even the dealer thinks Auto-Trail are now burying their heads in the sand over the bottle locker issue and are just hoping it will fade away over time.

I am now looking at second hand RVs about 30ft or so long, but I am not sure that I want to continue throwing money away on an industry that I am rapidly losing faith and interest in. :Angry:

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[WhiteCheyenneMan]

So many complaints about new Autotrails do suggest that they don't make them like they used to :Sad: Shame because we rather fancied a S/H Scout Lo line for 2014

 

[busby]

We moved from looking at caravans in 2010 (because our Volvo wasn’t big enough to tow the vans we liked!) to motorhomes in 2011. We found a lovely 2010 Cheyenne 740SE with less than 1,000 miles, but it was rather overpriced. In addition, whilst having 4 berths, it only had two belted seats and we wanted our adult daughter to come on some trips. The very friendly and helpful dealer said that he could quote for fitting a belted Captain’s chair and we eagerly accepted his offer and supplied our contact details………………..and that was the last we heard. Don’t think it has sold yet, although the price has been reduced
We gave up waiting for the quote and immediately found another 740SE at Kent Motorhome Centre, near Maidstone. It was a 2008 model, 4000 miles, 3 berth but with 4 belted seats. Habitation aircon, heated water tanks, additional electric hot water tank, 2 leisure batteries, safety bar and tow bracket etc………….. Much cheaper than the previous find and in excellent condition :thumb:
We bought it because we like the KMC staff as well as the vehicle, negotiation was quick and easy. Our first ‘round the corner’ test camp never happened and we set off on a three week tour of Europe as complete novices! Whilst staying with relatives in Vienna (in their garden that is!) the water pump failed and the control panel went beserk. With the help of my nephew we zapped the water pump back to life (it failed again later) and KMC talked us through sorting the control panel’s epilepsy over the phone.
Soon after we returned home, two windows sprang serious leaks. KMC’s response to all this was, ‘No problem, we’ll sort it’. And they did. The pump and control panel were caused by a poor earthing contact behind the main control and fuse box and, because we were going away again quite soon, they siliconed the windows and they haven’t leaked since. That was a year ago but, now out of warranty, KMC have promised that when the silicon starts to degrade, and it surely will, they will remove the windows and completely refit them at no charge. And I know that they will.
Since then we’ve had three problems: 1. Two of the three roof lights failed to lock, despite KMC adjusting and lubricating and saying ‘bring it back if you’re not satisfied’. They have replaced the mechanisms on both under KMC’s own warranty; 2. They cleaned the filters and dismantled the electrics on the Dometic when the habitation aircon ceased to cool. They found no fault, but must have moved something as it works now! No charge; 3. Habitation door handle broke. They asked if I would mind ordering the parts from Auto Trail as they were very busy (there’s only four of them, but up to 25 vans at a time) and their parts guy was away. I was happy to do that because we have a good relationship with them and buying parts from Auto Trail is a doddle (It’s questions and claims that they seem to have a problem with oh. In the end, with help from the forum, I fitted the replacement handle myself in an afternoon
So, if you’re in the region, I can’t recommend Kent Motorhome Centre too highly. We deal with the original sales man but he frequently brings Tom, their technician, in to talk over the details. No, I’m not connected with their business and, so far as I know, they don’t visit this forum :thumb:

THIS DEALER IS VERY EXPENSIVE FOR SECOND HAND VEHICLES. They are asking £18000 for an Autosleeper same year and mileage that i have just purchased for £12000. BUSBY:thumb:

 

[Chris]

So many complaints about new Autotrails do suggest that they don't make them like they used to :Sad: Shame because we rather fancied a S/H Scout Lo line for 2014

We have a new Scout high line and we have had only one minor issue which was sorted by the dealer in no time at all.

I wouldn't be put off Autotrail. I am really impressed with ours ( but I confess that I don't spend my time looking for things that are wrong with it)

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[Southampton]

I am pleased with my Commanche but do have a couple of issues. I also couldn't fit 13kg gas bottles and got the following reply from Autotrail

Quote....Hi,

The gas bottles are a tight fit. You need to ensure that the base of the bottle sits behind the small plastic clip at the back of the locker and not up in front of it. If you do this it should fit.

Regards


Steve Moverley
Development Manager
Main office: +44 *(0)1472 571000.......unquote

The other issue is the solar charging, it has not worked properly since new. The reading on the control panel has never indicated any charge (always 0.0) being given when not on EHU, drawing about 3-4 amps on appliances and in bright sunshine.

Other than those I am quite happy with my Autotrail. Not sure of the 13Kg gas bottle answer though, sounds like a Koop out to me.

 

[Chris]

I am pleased with my Commanche but do have a couple of issues. I also couldn't fit 13kg gas bottles and got the following reply from Autotrail

Quote....Hi,

The gas bottles are a tight fit. You need to ensure that the base of the bottle sits behind the small plastic clip at the back of the locker and not up in front of it. If you do this it should fit.

Regards


Steve Moverley
Development Manager
Main office: +44 *(0)1472 571000.......unquote

The other issue is the solar charging, it has not worked properly since new. The reading on the control panel has never indicated any charge (always 0.0) being given when not on EHU, drawing about 3-4 amps on appliances and in bright sunshine.

Other than those I am quite happy with my Autotrail. Not sure of the 13Kg gas bottle answer though, sounds like a Koop out to me.

On the solar charging point , ours wasn't working so I delved ( cluelessly) into the battery area and connected two red things and it worked after that. I also read a post from one of the traders on here who indicated that the positioning of the TV arial on an unnamed manufacturers van, cast a shadow over the solar panel making it less efficient. I suspect it was Autotrail.

 

[rolandrat]

Unfortunately your Fiat source is wrong, or mis-informed.
It is the 3ltr that has the most problems with the judder and the only reason that no mods are necessary is that none are available.
The official cure, from Fiat in Italy, is to increase the revs when reversing.

This is well documented elsewhere and has been ongoing for a number of years.

You are right when you say that the 3ltr is sound, it is reverse gear which is too high. As you say, thirsty but sound. :thumb:

This thread goes back quite a bit but I just want to assure anyone who is thinking of buying an X250 3ltr that there isn't any issue with clutch judder like the early 2.3 6speed box. I can only go off my own experience of owning one and also my local Blackburn Fiat dealership senior technician who has been very informative. I now own a 2.3 with the latest gearbox and it is smooth as silk. Although the engine is smaller it is quite powerful and much more economical to run. If anyone is thinking of buying an x250 2.3 all I can say is if you want piece of mind regarding clutch judder then stay away from any early models and consider late 2009 ones onwards.

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[knokinonabit]

We have a new Scout high line and we have had only one minor issue which was sorted by the dealer in no time at all.

I wouldn't be put off Autotrail. I am really impressed with ours ( but I confess that I don't spend my time looking for things that are wrong with it)

I don't spend my time looking for things that are wrong with it either.
I don't have to look for them when they are staring me in the face

This thread goes back quite a bit but I just want to assure anyone who is thinking of buying an X250 3ltr that there isn't any issue with clutch judder like the early 2.3 6speed box. I can only go off my own experience of owning one and also my local Blackburn Fiat dealership senior technician who has been very informative. I now own a 2.3 with the latest gearbox and it is smooth as silk. Although the engine is smaller it is quite powerful and much more economical to run. If anyone is thinking of buying an x250 2.3 all I can say is if you want piece of mind regarding clutch judder then stay away from any early models and consider late 2009 ones onwards.

Sorry to disagree, but you are welcome to reverse mine anytime you want and then tell me that there is no clutch judder. My local Iveco/Fiat main dealer and Fiat also agree with me.

 

[WillH]

On the reverse judder problem there was never a recall, the gearboxes/clutches that were modified were those that the owners pursued . I don't know if there is a way to determine whether the mod has been done other than invoices and worksheets etc. There are possibly a lot of X250's out there that have not been done.

Rgds
Bill

 

[knokinonabit]

On the reverse judder problem there was never a recall, the gearboxes/clutches that were modified were those that the owners pursued . I don't know if there is a way to determine whether the mod has been done other than invoices and worksheets etc. There are possibly a lot of X250's out there that have not been done.

Rgds
Bill

I agree :thumb:

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[WhiteCheyenneMan]

THIS DEALER IS VERY EXPENSIVE FOR SECOND HAND VEHICLES. They are asking £18000 for an Autosleeper same year and mileage that i have just purchased for £12000. BUSBY:thumb:

That's before you negotiate, of course. We didn't pay the asking price for ours and what we did pay was lower than the other 5 versions for sale elsewhere

 

[Heyupluv]

We have bought an Autotrail Comanche 3 weeks ago and traded in our 2011 Elddis 155.
The Comanche is also 2011 but has been unsold until we came along.
We did get it for a very reasonable price and to be fair 2 of the faults were pointed out to us with the promise of repair.
One was a crack in the habitation door handle mounting caused by people tugging at the door (allegedly) and the other was the drivers door blind mounting coming adrift. It has now come so adrift that if you open the drivers door the blind falls out.
Both the leisure battery and the vehicle battery have died (both replaced straight away).
The gas bottle locker catches are secured by plastic cable ties. one snapped at the first time of using and I had to grovel around with a long screwdriver to open the door from under the MH. Apparently this is the way they are all fastened !!!!!!!
The fresh and grey water taps are leaking (waiting for new ones).
The fresh water tank had a lot of plastic swarfe, from where the holes were cut for the pipes to fit, and I had to flush them out.
Reversing camera cuts out intermitantly when reversing (needs new camera head)
The water pump was exceptionaly noisy because the filter bowl was rattling off the pipes and its mounting points (rectified).
The light switch for the main hab lights only works when it feels like it (worked in the workshop, so they can't find a fault !!!!!).
Various info books are missing so I am downloading them from the appropriate web sites as I can't wait for the dealer to "find" them.

Just to add insult to injury, the Fiat reversing judder is very prominent, so this will mean a visit to my local Iveco dealer and more delays.

Other than that, we are very pleased with it, the one time that we have been able to use it. Hopefully all the bits will arrive from Autotrail and we can have a fully functioning MH to enjoy.

Welcome to the modern Motorhome.....its not just Autotrail, it is the dam lot of them,and yes that includes the modern European motorhomes....Rapido,Pilot, Hymer,Burstner,CI, the list goes on and on and on....this is from the motorhome people I speak to buying new vans... they are so fed up with faults after faults after faults...you then after to take them back again and again and again and again...your time your diesel your holidays spoilt...YOU buy a new motorhome, YOU pay a lot of money for it, YOU DO THERE QC ( quality control) for them YOU find there faults, they will repair under warranty...until that runs out...then you are on your own....also 99.9% of the dealers are not qualified to do or able to do the repairs as they should be when they left the factory.some times it is a bodge or make do..some times it is not possible for them to repair the motorhome how it should be due to how they are built....I am not blaming the dealers they do there best...it's the manufacture's of the modern Motorhomes who don't seem to care...they are assembly line made.....

 

[teddybard]

After reading this thread I can't tell you how glad I am to have an Autotrail on orderoh:

Best to advise them that you know a good lawyer
if you do

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[rolandrat]

Welcome to the modern Motorhome.....its not just Autotrail, it is the dam lot of them,and yes that includes the modern European motorhomes....Rapido,Pilot, Hymer,Burstner,CI, the list goes on and on and on....this is from the motorhome people I speak to buying new vans... they are so fed up with faults after faults after faults...you then after to take them back again and again and again and again...your time your diesel your holidays spoilt...YOU buy a new motorhome, YOU pay a lot of money for it, YOU DO THERE QC ( quality control) for them YOU find there faults, they will repair under warranty...until that runs out...then you are on your own....also 99.9% of the dealers are not qualified to do or able to do the repairs as they should be when they left the factory.some times it is a bodge or make do..some times it is not possible for them to repair the motorhome how it should be due to how they are built....I am not blaming the dealers they do there best...it's the manufacture's of the modern Motorhomes who don't seem to care...they are assembly line made.....

I remember when Discover Leisure were having problems, they used to rob new motorhomes to keep others on the road. If you viewed some new ones there was always bits missing and you knew that they would never have left the factory in that condition.
It's not so often that you hear of problems with Elddis products so it must speak volumes for them.

 

[chaser]

It's not so often that you hear of problems with Elddis products so it must speak volumes for them.


Well, I didn't want to get involved with this thread, knowing nothing about autotrails, but I have a compass avantgarde which i believe is an elddis and thought I must be one of the lucky ones as nothing's fell off and nothing is damp, but only having dealt with home made ones before didn't want to tempt fate, but being as its been raised I couldn't be more satisfied with the build of this one.

 

[Heyupluv]

I remember when Discover Leisure were having problems, they used to rob new motorhomes to keep others on the road. If you viewed some new ones there was always bits missing and you knew that they would never have left the factory in that condition.
It's not so often that you hear of problems with Elddis products so it must speak volumes for them.

Rolandrat...YES.... that is common to rob other new vans to save waiting for parts to arrive....as bits and pieces can take months... rob from peter to pay paul oh: a lot of the dealers don't carry that much stock if any, only off the shelf items after market goods oh:

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[MHVirgins]

I remember when Discover Leisure were having problems, they used to rob new motorhomes to keep others on the road. If you viewed some new ones there was always bits missing and you knew that they would never have left the factory in that condition.
It's not so often that you hear of problems with Elddis products so it must speak volumes for them.

Interesting post........we have had an Elddis 180 from new, however, as the warranties are just about to come to an end, we are thinking about changing the van.
Guess what, we fancy an Autotrail, have been viewing loads of them and are slowly narrowing it down to what would work best for us.

Despite the so-called "budget" status of Elddis that we hear about, we haven't had any problems at all with our van during the 3 years that we've had it. A couple of squeaks here and there but nothing major at all.

Despite someone reversing into the side of us with a van and ladders on top, all repairs were subsequently done through our local dealer to our satisfaction.
These repairs were carried out under the insurance, but our dealer and Elddis were great throughout.
The van was off the road for 5 weeks whilst the repairs were done. So all in all, we still love our Autoquest 180, but just fancied a change of layout as well as the fact the warranties are due to end soon.
So were are thoroughly enjoying and following this thread with great interest:thumb:
Who knows, we might even end up keeping our Elddis

Bill

 

[MichelleRyall]

Our previous van was a Compass Avantgarde, an entry level motorhome. We had very few problems at all with it. Nothing ever dropped off or needed fixing. Apart from a small crack in the shower tray and the 12v socket in the front that never worked from new all was very good. Our current MH is an Autoroller 707. We have a few minor niggles but nothing major, pretty pleased with it generally.

 

[francour]

autotrail wows

Hi
you do not say how much you paid just say £30000 if this was a BMW car with all these faults you would have taken it back and proberly demanded action so why o why do motorhome buyers just except this as normal these dealers get away with murder and the manufactors and fiat treat uk owners like sh---- its about time someone stood up to them a £50000 motorhome with clutch judder a joke . Bernie

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[knokinonabit]

Hi
you do not say how much you paid just say £30000 if this was a BMW car with all these faults you would have taken it back and proberly demanded action so why o why do motorhome buyers just except this as normal these dealers get away with murder and the manufactors and fiat treat uk owners like sh---- its about time someone stood up to them a £50000 motorhome with clutch judder a joke . Bernie

I take it that your post was intended for me as the original poster.
The MH was brand new, so I am sure you can work it out from the web sites etc.
I am "standing up" to them and the fight goes on, it's just that they take as long as they can to answer (if at all) when you contact them, and have all kinds of reasons for your faults. It will take time, but I will get there.

If we all stood up to them then half of them would be out of business and we would all be satisfied customers. It's just that "all" of us don't.

 

[knokinonabit]

Update to the updates

After threatening to involve Trading Standards the MH is now booked in for the 8th of August to have all the outstanding work done, plus a hab and damp check.
I have no doubt that the gas locker situation will not be resolved as Auto-Trail have buried their heads in the sand and are hoping the problem will go away. But it won't. I will make very sure of that.

Watch this thread.

 

[maz]

After threatening to involve Trading Standards the MH is now booked in for the 8th of August to have all the outstanding work done, plus a hab and damp check.
I have no doubt that the gas locker situation will not be resolved as Auto-Trail have buried their heads in the sand and are hoping the problem will go away. But it won't. I will make very sure of that.

Watch this thread.

Good for you - don't let 'em get away with any nonsense. :thumb:

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