Autoroller 700 plated weight (1 Viewer)

e20rod

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Mar 8, 2010
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Just started!
Our Autoroller 700 is advertised, and its states in the documentation, that the Gross Vehicle Mass (think that's the correct terminology!) is 3850kg. The registration document also states this. However, the plates on the vehicle itself say 3500kg. This is both the Ford plate and the Trigano fitted one. The only difference between the two plates is the train weight, which is 6200kg on the Ford plate and 4700kg on the Trigano plate.

So what's going on? Any other Autoroller 700 (or any twin rear wheel transit version) owners out there like to check to see if theirs is similar?

Cheers,

Rod.
 

Robinhood

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Mar 7, 2010
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It's not unknown for such things to happen.

There are advantages (particularly in Europe) in having a vehicle plated at 3500kg, and there have been instances before of such a plate arriving on an import which is sold in the UK at 3850kg.

I assume you need the extra 350kg payload. If so, check there isn't a 3rd plate on the vehicle at 3850kg (sounds like there isn't), and if not, insist on the dealer having a replacement plate provided by Autoroller (assuming it was not bought privately).
 

pappajohn

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i agree with robinhood,

get the dealer to sort it.
if it does state 3850kg on the V5 then that is the weight that is recorded at DVLA.
to confirm this have a look at your tax disc....it should say PHGV or PHG and will cost £165.
if it didnt have a weight listed then DVLA have no record of the Gross weight and that is where the problems start.


there should be a second or even third plate somewhere stating 3850kg.

my kontiki has 3 plates...fiat, alko and swift, the last two are 3850kg and the fiat is 3500kg.

i got andy at swiftgroup to sort mine as it was registered as 3500kg and taxed as PLG (£185 at the time).

its quite normal for the train weight to be reduced if the gross has been increased but to reduce from 6200kg to 4700kg thats a 1500kg reduction :Eeek:and means you can only tow a trailer weighing 850kg...a bit excessive to me.
are you sure its not 5700kg ?

mine was reduced from 2000kg to 1650kg... the same as the uprate...350kg.

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e20rod

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Mar 8, 2010
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Just started!
Its definitely 4700kg. Looking at the weights of other models in the range, I now suspect that its got a plate from a single rear wheel model. They have a gross weight of 3500kg and a towing limit of 1200kg which equates to the train weight of 4700kg.

I think, as suggested, I'll call the dealer!

Cheers,

Rod.
 

bevo

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Nov 15, 2008
218
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north west
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3
weight plate

hi
mine is exactly the same, no other plates anywhere.
but as stated i use it to my advantage in europe when there is a 3.5 tonn weight limit.
 

vwalan

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Sep 23, 2008
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doesnt make any sense to lower the train wt if you higher the gvw. train is train . do know if you lower the gvw you can keep the original train wt. that makes sense .

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pappajohn

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doesnt make any sense to lower the train wt if you higher the gvw. train is train . do know if you lower the gvw you can keep the original train wt. that makes sense .

hi Alan,
couldnt agree more but it appears to be the way DVLA do things...

my train was reduced by 350kg when the gross was uprated to 3850kg but as the new log book doesnt show a train weight i 'forgot' to place the new, Alko supplied, vin plate over the original Alko plate.

read Link Removed for the whole tale.

and Link RemovedLink RemovedLink Removedfor the update
 

vwalan

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Sep 23, 2008
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john ,all it should take is a visit to your local dvla. as the alko plate and swift show the higher gvw .alko show 5500 as train . here i would visit the office at truro say its wrong . someone would come out look see that alko and swift give it 3.8 then get swansea to issue a new log book .
i do voluntary lowering through them and sometimes have to up rate using the reversal if neccesary .
the latest is dropping over 3.5 ton units for over 70,s so they dont need a medical. the trucks keep the original train but can now be driven on b+e licence.even at 9.6 ton.
even our local traffic examiner for vosa thinks its a joke .
even worse as if you are in a private truck pulling over 7.5 you should have a tacho and use it and abide with drivers hours etc.
also checks are going on for private run vehicles with tacho,s at mot stations ,unless you notify them its private the two yearly checks and six yearly come into operation.
so if you run private fill in the excemption form available at test stations before they fail it. it can be expensive i just changed my tacho 585quid for exchange tacho .ouch!
where have you got trainweight on the log book i havent got it on any of mine?
 

pappajohn

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Aug 26, 2007
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where have you got trainweight on the log book i havent got it on any of mine?

the train isnt on the V5 Alan, its on the new, replacement VIN plate and on the replacement Certificate of conformity sent to me by ALKO-COBER.

went to DVLA Beverly with all docs and got it changed but they wanted the cert of conformity to do it on the spot, so to speak.

as it already had an ALKO vin plate with the correct gross AND a train of 5500kg i never fitted the new vin plate as that has the same gross weight but a train of only 5200kg.

as you know, whatever is on the V5 is a copy of DVLA's records and as there is no train on the V5, DVLA dont have a record of it.

so if i got a pull from VOSA and had a 1650kg toad on the hook and a van gross of 3850kg, i would be within the max train weight but using the new plate i would be 300kg over train.

bit of a no-brainer really not to fit the new plate and lose 300kg train when the chassis is quite capable of pulling it.

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e20rod

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Mar 8, 2010
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Just started!
hi
mine is exactly the same, no other plates anywhere.
but as stated i use it to my advantage in europe when there is a 3.5 tonn weight limit.

I did wonder whether is was better to just keep quiet! It would make it much simpler for breakdown insurance etc. The downside of leaving it be would be the limited payload. There's 4 of us, 4 bikes on the rack, a fair bit of 'stuff' plus there's the likelihood of a fair bit of wine after our tour of europe in the summer!

I'm planning a trip to our local quarry weighbridge once they've finished installing the new on to see exactly how much there is to play with.

Cheers,

Rod.
 
Oct 5, 2009
348
315
anglesey
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Autotrail Delaware
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since 1999
hi rod
just checked on my 700
plate on bonnet slam panel reads auto roller stage 2 conversion 3850 maw 5050gtw
plate on n/s front seat frame reads trigano fase 2 3500 gvw 4700 gtw
ford plate on door pillar reads 3500gvw 6300 gtw
v5 gives gvw 3850 and taxation class private hgv

i think the thing to do is if you get pulled for speeding or going on the ferry show them the 3500 plate
if you are pulled for a weight check show them the 3850 plate but it will proberbly on their computer anyway
hope this helps

maxsdad
 
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e20rod

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Just started!
This sounds promising, perhaps I've missed a plate! When you say 'bonnet slam panel', where exactly is that? A picture would be helpful!

Cheers,

Rod.

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pappajohn

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This sounds promising, perhaps I've missed a plate! When you say 'bonnet slam panel', where exactly is that? A picture would be helpful!

Cheers,

Rod.

havent go a piccy but its the panel the bonnet catch latches onto......just infront of the radiator top.
 
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e20rod

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Just started!
Thanks. Its dark here now (well almost and its 10.45pm, nice!) so I'll have a look in the morning.

Cheers,

Rod.
 
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e20rod

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Mar 8, 2010
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Just started!
Just had a look under the bonnet. There's a white riveted on plate which states the colour etc. Looks like its been put on before painting so must be a Ford one. No other plates or stickers though, suspect this is where the problem lies.

I called the dealer on Saturday and he sounded a bit baffled, asked me to call back to today, which I'll be doing shortly!

Cheers,

Rod.

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pappajohn

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try on the bulkhead under the bonnet below the windscreen, on the door pillar, on the seat base or in the footwell...passenger and driver side.
it may even have been placed on an internal wooden wall / bulkhead near the seats.
 

bevo

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Nov 15, 2008
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weight plate

hi rod
mine is exactly the same as yours just a plate under the bonnet with paint colour on.
i don't have a maximum train weight of 4,700 kg on the passenger seat though.
just the 6,300 kg one on the door frame.
it'll be interesting to see what your dealer finds out.
i must admit it doesn't really worry me, as i read that someone was pulled in france on the a26 and weighed on a weighbridge. the kind gendarme was only interested in the weights in the v5.
 

bevo

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Nov 15, 2008
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hi pappa
i know my v5 only shows the van maximum weight 3,850kg
but in my simple mind if the gross train weight is not shown how do they enforce a gross train weight.
i would just act daft(who said i am).

or is all the info on a computer somewhere.
 

pappajohn

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hi pappa
i know my v5 only shows the van maximum weight 3,850kg
but in my simple mind if the gross train weight is not shown how do they enforce a gross train weight.
i would just act daft(who said i am).

or is all the info on a computer somewhere.

i reckon if stopped by VOSA they will look at the VIN plate to assertain train weight if you are towing, which will be difficult if there isnt one.

no real answer to that scenario.

and not forgetting.....ignorance is no defense in british law :Sad:

with regard to the last sentence...whatever is printed in your V5 is a direct copy of DVLA's records...or so i was told at DVLA Beverley when i enquired about my V5 showing an incorrect gross weight.
 

vwalan

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Sep 23, 2008
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you should be able to use the original train weight. if you have no train wt on a plate then there is a table notional weights . its abit complex to give amounts as it depends on the tow vehicle and what its towing .there are 14 classes of vehicle and

6 for trailers .best look hard and get the makers plate showing tran wt.
it could be over 4 times the unladen wt of tow vehicle .
mine is 3.42 times the unladen wt. as standard truck so i keep it in its now status.
if you show 6.3 on the door plate thats it. the train doesnt have to be lowered.
as for use abroad nobody checks except if they are out weighing .for bridges i,m sure you would be tret as 3.5 the average normal wt.

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vwalan

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just a reminder if you are over 5percent you will not be allowed to carry on your journey till the excess wt is removed .if over 10 percent a prosecution will follow a maximum of 5,000 pound fine . that could be just for axle overweight not the vehicle in total.
highly unlikely but why take the chance.
if they prohibit your journey and you carry on a further 5,000pound fine could be applied.
 
Oct 5, 2009
348
315
anglesey
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Autotrail Delaware
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since 1999
This sounds promising, perhaps I've missed a plate! When you say 'bonnet slam panel', where exactly is that? A picture would be helpful!

Cheers,

Rod.

hi rod
not quite up to sending pictures on the web yet but the bonnet or radiator slam panel is the body panel on top of the radiator that the bonnet locks down on
they may call it somthing else these days will try to send picture later but don't hold your breath.

maxsdad
 

motorhomer

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This is a common trigano problem. I had exactly this issue with a CI Cipro from the same stable as autoroller. The van said 3500 but the V5 - and the brochures - said 3850. Eventually I spoke to the tech director at Autotrail - the importers in Grimsby - and they sent me an addional sticker to put in the van to confirm the 3850.

They claimed that UK spec vehicles had "camping car rear suspension" which increased the MGW to 3850.

Personally I think its just marketing. 3500 is a major advantage in many countries (higher speed limits, lower tolls, in some cases nearly 10 times lower, quite a few roads are limited to 3500) so more vans there are sold as 3500 when the identical vans in UK are higher.

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lebesset

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May 31, 2009
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main reason is that in many counties they reduced the basic driving test to qualify you for only 3,500 Kg
in france that was in 1975

you want more , it's a proper HGV test

how many under 30's have got a licence for over 3.5 in the uk now ?
 
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e20rod

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Mar 8, 2010
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Just started!
I spoke to the dealer and he's going to speak to Trigano and get a new plate sent up. I'm quite liking the idea that'll it'll have several documented weights! 3500kg if its queried for recovery, tolls, speed limits etc. and 3850kg if we ever get pulled over and weighed!

Thanks for all the replies.

Cheers,

Rod.
 

pappajohn

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I spoke to the dealer and he's going to speak to Trigano and get a new plate sent up. I'm quite liking the idea that'll it'll have several documented weights! 3500kg if its queried for recovery, tolls, speed limits etc. and 3850kg if we ever get pulled over and weighed!

Thanks for all the replies.

Cheers,

Rod.

you mean theres a different speed limit over 3500kg :RollEyes::winky:

a kontiki 640 at 3500kg and a kontiki 640 at 3850kg are dimensionally identical so how would plod know i was speeding. :Doh:::bigsmile:

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wireman

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YUp, in France the speed limit for anything over 3.5 ton is different for MH's. Tis why more and more MH's are being pulled by Le Flic (or so i'm led to beleive) for checking and they seem to be interested in the V5 more than the plates. Doing 90 kmh in a NSL in a 3.8 ton MH will net you an on the spot fine of at least 30€ cos you are restricted to 80khm.
 

lebesset

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May 31, 2009
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they will know because in france you now have to exhibit maximum speed stickers on the rear of any vehicle over 3,500 Kg

personally I would risk not having them on a vehicle that looks like a 3,500 motorhome , then ,as you say , they wouldn't know

of course if they pull you over they have another offence to fine you for , but as it is a newish regulation you would probably get away with pleading ignorance ...

it shouldn't be long before all EU vehicles and driving licences are available on a central computer system
 

vwalan

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they are .i got a ticket for parking in denia one year .they got my address from the reg number.

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