Anyone like puzzles? Unravel please (1 Viewer)

andy63

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I didn't realise you did the original install sorry.

If there is no room to get a spanner in, then I would probably still go for the wall mounted fuse box. Then use either quick release battery terminals or use something like anderson connectors.

If there isn't even enough room to get a spanner in then it is AT fault for badly designed battery storage area.
No need for sorry but thanks..
The batteries were already on van in the fashion I've described above..
I only installed the solar charge wires and a battery master..
But as I've said only way I could get at batteries was to remove from locker and the auto trail wiring allowed for that... and I made sure my wiring allowed the same thing..
So while it may look a mess I'm happy it's safe and works fine.. it has for nearly 2 yrs with no problems.. that's most probably the first time they have been out since I put them in after doing the job..
Andy
 
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At this stage I wouldn't contemplate adding anything. Take everything connected to positive terminals, gather it together and connect it to a stainless 6mm screw. Do the same (to another screw) with everything connected to negative terminals. Discard the original neg-neg and pos-pos link wires. Mount the two screws on strip of thick plastic inside an adjacent locker. Link the batteries in such a way that they can be withdrawn from the locker then wire from battery terminals to appropriate screws in the locker leaving enough length to withdraw the batteries.

At this point the battery locker is tidy & the rest of the wiring is no better or worse than it was before you started. At your leisure you can sort out individual circuits at the new connection posts in the locker - or at the very least identify and label them to avoid future confusion.
 
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At this stage I wouldn't contemplate adding anything. Take everything connected to positive terminals, gather it together and connect it to a stainless 6mm screw. Do the same (to another screw) with everything connected to negative terminals. Discard the original neg-neg and pos-pos link wires. Mount the two screws on strip of thick plastic inside an adjacent locker. Link the batteries in such a way that they can be withdrawn from the locker then wire from battery terminals to appropriate screws in the locker leaving enough length to withdraw the batteries.

At this point the battery locker is tidy & the rest of the wiring is no better or worse than it was before you started. At your leisure you can sort out individual circuits at the new connection posts in the locker - or at the very least identify and label them to avoid future confusion.

I wouldn't do that as I would want each individual circuit fused. I used one of these when rewiring my van.
http://amzn.to/2d4hoj1

I would mount it at the side the of the batteries, and have 2 pos and 2 neg wires coming from it to the batteries. Then connect all the trailing wires into the fuse box.
I would also put a mega fuse connected directly to each battery.

The fuse box I linked has a negative bus bar as well.
 

andy63

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I would mount it at the side the of the batteries,
Are you saying you would install the fuse box you linked to in the battery locker.. I doubt there would be room but i don't get that.. the vehicle has a sergeant fitted and all the circus are fused in there surely so why a second fuse box??
Andy..

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andy63

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At your leisure you can sort out individual circuits at the new connection posts in the locker - or at the very least identify and label them to avoid future confusion.
The only wiring in the locker is the auto trail wiring to the sergeant .. each battery having its own supply harness,and the solar charge contrl wires which I installed which is why I decided to parallel the batteries at source..
Oh and a battery master device ... so I don't see that there is a lot needs sorting or identifying.. once the batteries are out of the locker it's not hard to see what's connected... granted not that tidy but I still say it's soundly enough wired.. and has been working fine for a couple years..
Andy
 
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Are you saying you would install the fuse box you linked to in the battery locker.. I doubt there would be room but i don't get that.. the vehicle has a sergeant fitted and all the circus are fused in there surely so why a second fuse box??
Andy..

Fuses are to protect both the wiring and the connected devices. I fuse every cable as close to the point where the voltage is produced as possible.

You currently have inline fuses on most of the cables on the positive side of the battery which is what you should do. My suggestion would be to get rid of the inline fuses and replace them with a proper fuse box installed in the battery compartment.

So basically you have a single mega fuse connected directly to the battery terminal to protect the wire going from the battery to the fuse box. This has to be suitable sized to protect the larger cable. If there was an accident or something went wrong on this thick cable and it shorted you need the mega fuse to protect it.

Then in the fuse box each individual circuit is protected by a separate fuse. The reason I do it this way is because if you have say 1mm cable for the lighting circuit the mega fuse wouldn't blow before the 1mm wire burnt out in the case of a short.

So the mega fuse is to protect the cable from the battery to the fuse box. Then each fuse protects the individual circuits.

Because you are hard wiring the fuse box in, you could shorten the cables and tidy the rats nest up.

Just my thoughts.
 
Aug 6, 2013
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Fuses are to protect both the wiring and the connected devices. I fuse every cable as close to the point where the voltage is produced as possible.

You currently have inline fuses on most of the cables on the positive side of the battery which is what you should do. My suggestion would be to get rid of the inline fuses and replace them with a proper fuse box installed in the battery compartment.

So basically you have a single mega fuse connected directly to the battery terminal to protect the wire going from the battery to the fuse box. This has to be suitable sized to protect the larger cable. If there was an accident or something went wrong on this thick cable and it shorted you need the mega fuse to protect it.

Then in the fuse box each individual circuit is protected by a separate fuse. The reason I do it this way is because if you have say 1mm cable for the lighting circuit the mega fuse wouldn't blow before the 1mm wire burnt out in the case of a short.

So the mega fuse is to protect the cable from the battery to the fuse box. Then each fuse protects the individual circuits.

Because you are hard wiring the fuse box in, you could shorten the cables and tidy the rats nest up.

Just my thoughts.
My suggestion was simply to get that cats cradle out of the battery box. Once that is done there's no danger of damaging any connections during battery withdrawal. What needs doing next can be determined in the safer environment of a locker (or anywhere other than the present location). I deliberately did not comment on fusing because I don't know what's there at present.
 
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irnbru

irnbru

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Thank God I'm not a man. Too confusing for me:LOL:.
I don't for a minute think there is any fire risk and the wires do need to be long so that the batteries can come out. Just wasn't sure if there were 2 extra wires there but now that Andy has said he's done it then I'm happy enough. At least if it's his work he will know how he's going forward to fit the next two now.:rofl:

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andy63

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Thank God I'm not a man. Too confusing for me:LOL:.
I don't for a minute think there is any fire risk and the wires do need to be long so that the batteries can come out. Just wasn't sure if there were 2 extra wires there but now that Andy has said he's done it then I'm happy enough. At least if it's his work he will know how he's going forward to fit the next two now.:rofl:
I'll see if I can come up with another nest in your underseat area..:LOL::LOL:
 
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I just had another look at the picture, unfortunately we can't see the cabinet it came out of. However the battery rails in the floor make it look like there is space to each side.
If this is the full height of the battery and full depth then there is enough space there to fit both a fuse box and an Anderson connector.

This would make the job really neat and tidy and easy to manage.

http://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/anderson-sb-double-pole-power-connectors.html

Using this you could have a fly lead with an anderson connector on it to the battery, and the other part of the anderson connector fixed to the wall. To remove the battery unplug the Anderson connector and slide the battery out.

@Techno does a great job with his electrics and uses quite a few Anderson Connectors if memory serves. I just did a search to see if I could find one of his installations.

http://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/12-volt-50-amp-anderson-connection.88099/

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Jaws

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Ahhh.. an Autotrail !
Easily recognised by the STUPID double wiring up to the Sargent unit THAT IS CONNECTED TOGETHER IN THE SARGENT !!
The thick black wires are the solar panel feed

From my experience.. and to tidy the whole lot up

The blue and brown wires can be considered as one as they join together in the charger
Rip the lot off, join the blue and brown wires together
Join the two white / red wires together
Get a bit more of that solar panel cable and 4 new battery terminals
Join the two batteries together with the bit of solar panel cable( or similar ) ( +ve to +ve, -ve to -ve )
Attach the cojoined brown and blue wire to the +ve terminal via a 20amp fuse, along with the +ve from the solar reg output
Attach the cojoined white/red earth wires to the -ve battery terminal along with the -ve from the solar reg.
The yellow wire ( from memory ) feeds the electronic ignition for the fridge and cooker and goes to the EM50 unit

If yours is wired the same as mine the yellow wire in that connector block goes nowhere down at the battery end
I suspect it is a left over from another model and was not used, but as it is a more or less standard loom it was easier to leave it in place
 

andy63

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Ahhh.. an Autotrail !
Easily recognised by the STUPID double wiring up to the Sargent unit THAT IS CONNECTED TOGETHER IN THE SARGENT !!
The thick black wires are the solar panel feed

From my experience.. and to tidy the whole lot up

The blue and brown wires can be considered as one as they join together in the charger
Rip the lot off, join the blue and brown wires together
Join the two white / red wires together
Get a bit more of that solar panel cable and 4 new battery terminals
Join the two batteries together with the bit of solar panel cable( or similar ) ( +ve to +ve, -ve to -ve )
Attach the cojoined brown and blue wire to the +ve terminal via a 20amp fuse, along with the +ve from the solar reg output
Attach the cojoined white/red earth wires to the -ve battery terminal along with the -ve from the solar reg.
The yellow wire ( from memory ) feeds the electronic ignition for the fridge and cooker and goes to the EM50 unit

If yours is wired the same as mine the yellow wire in that connector block goes nowhere down at the battery end
I suspect it is a left over from another model and was not used, but as it is a more or less standard loom it was easier to leave it in place

Cheers John. . I've taken a bit stick for the mess but but hey ho Sandra got the job done and it's worked fine for a couple years nearly..
The batteries are paralleled in the locker already with some spare solar charge wire I had.. but the original auto trail harness from each battery are still in place.. if I remember rightly I asked at the time and the advice I got was to do that..
The yellow wire if I remember rightly is a feed from the battery master device which I fitted at the same time as the solar..so that will have to be left in place..
It does look unsightly but at the end of the day I only brought 2 wires into the locker from the solar controller and one out to the start battery ,oh and connect the batterie's in parallel in the locker with enough cable to allow them to be lifted out individually..
All the points mentioned by yourself and others I'm sure will be looked at with a view to tidying up but Sandra @irnbru wants a further two batteries adding to the set up .. maybe a winter project if she wants me to do it..:LOL:
Andy.
 

Jaws

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I use the locket for other stuff, and stuck all the batteries under the bench seat above it

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irnbru

irnbru

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Ahhh.. an Autotrail !
Easily recognised by the STUPID double wiring up to the Sargent unit THAT IS CONNECTED TOGETHER IN THE SARGENT !!
The thick black wires are the solar panel feed

From my experience.. and to tidy the whole lot up

The blue and brown wires can be considered as one as they join together in the charger
Rip the lot off, join the blue and brown wires together
Join the two white / red wires together
Get a bit more of that solar panel cable and 4 new battery terminals
Join the two batteries together with the bit of solar panel cable( or similar ) ( +ve to +ve, -ve to -ve )
Attach the cojoined brown and blue wire to the +ve terminal via a 20amp fuse, along with the +ve from the solar reg output
Attach the cojoined white/red earth wires to the -ve battery terminal along with the -ve from the solar reg.
The yellow wire ( from memory ) feeds the electronic ignition for the fridge and cooker and goes to the EM50 unit

If yours is wired the same as mine the yellow wire in that connector block goes nowhere down at the battery end
I suspect it is a left over from another model and was not used, but as it is a more or less standard loom it was easier to leave it in place

@Jaws Nows the time to get the other 2 batteries installed. We have decided to copy what you have done and bring all batteries inside. Can you post a photo of yours connected up so we can just follow it.

Cheers
 

Jaws

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I can do mate.. I will take a picture when I go to the van later

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Jaws

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@irnbru .. here ya go...
As you can see I have simply coupled the two positives together and the negatives are the same ( The mess of wire is not related to the battery installation .. It is yet another project ! )


P1020197.jpg


P1020195.jpg
 
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irnbru

irnbru

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Thanks @ Jaws.

Your wires are lovely and neat but if you are taking both positive and negative feeds off the 1st battery then is it not true that the bank is not balanced and the first battery will suffer ??


I"ve been trying to become more educated to learn about electrical.

See here

http://www.smartgauge.co.uk/batt_con.html
 

Jaws

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Thanks @ Jaws.

Your wires are lovely and neat but if you are taking both positive and negative feeds off the 1st battery then is it not true that the bank is not balanced and the first battery will suffer ??


I"ve been trying to become more educated to learn about electrical.

See here

http://www.smartgauge.co.uk/batt_con.html


No mate.. Not at the sort of amps involved with a motorhome
The cables over that short a distance will have so low a resistance as to be out of the equation

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irnbru

irnbru

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No mate.. Not at the sort of amps involved with a motorhome
The cables over that short a distance will have so low a resistance as to be out of the equation
Ok thx Jaws Im just a dumb blonde trying to learn lol. Just saying what I read on the link.
 

funflair

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Ok thx Jaws Im just a dumb blonde trying to learn lol. Just saying what I read on the link.
You were certainly right in theory though, if I was running an inverter of that set up I would want to take the +ve from one battery and the -ve from the other end.

Martin
 

Jaws

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You were certainly right in theory though, if I was running an inverter of that set up I would want to take the +ve from one battery and the -ve from the other end.

Martin
But if you were running an inverter the amperages would be massive and the cabling not man enough for the job..
I am as much anti inverters as some folk are gennys ! :)

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funflair

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But if you were running an inverter the amperages would be massive and the cabling not man enough for the job..
I am as much anti inverters as some folk are gennys ! :)
To be fair the amperages would be relative to the demand on the inverter which does not have to massive. As you point out yourself you do sound "anti" inverter.

But you have to be honest an inverter is quieter and less smelly than a generator.

Martin
 

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