Anti-Motorhome Legislation

Discussion in 'Motorhome Chat' started by vava1, Apr 8, 2008.

  1. vava1

    vava1 Read Only Funster

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    After July 2008 only the latest motorhomes will be allowed to enter the area within the M25 as emissions restrictions will mean a lot of us motorhomers will have to pay £200 a day to enter this area!

    PLEASE SIGN THIS PETITION!

    Petition to: Exempt Motorhomes from the new Emmission Charges.

    THINK IT DOESN'T AFFECT YOU? London is just the first city to implement this in the UK, next could be a city YOU want to visit. High charges have already started in many mainland europe cities, WE MUST ACT NOW and make our voices heard

    Our vehicles represent our freedom and independence - they are not delivery or service vans causing polution doing thousands of miles in the inner-city. the impending restrictions are a gross infringment of our civil liberties

    Please sing the petiton NOW - every voice must be heard!
     
  2. Geo

    Geo Trader - Funster

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    Whilst I wish you well with your mission I will not be wasting time signing any petitions
    The rules being implemented have little or nothing to do with pollution/saving the planet or anything other than revenue grabbing, and as such the decision has already been made, when they get away with it, and they will, as you say other cities will do the same, Only when we boycott these places and local business suffer and go broke some 10 - 15 years from now they may learn, or they may not:Sad:
    Geo:Sad:
     
  3. Johns_Cross_Motorhomes

    Johns_Cross_Motorhomes Trader - Motorhome & Accessory Sales

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    I find the charging of motor homes mind bogling, they are built on standard van chassis cabs, do the normal vans get charged as well?

    I drive a 3 litre diesel mercedes car and that does not have to pay the extra charge and it is not a new model.

    Peter
     
  4. keith

    keith Funster

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    Check here to find out if you are affected
     
  5. Johns_Cross_Motorhomes

    Johns_Cross_Motorhomes Trader - Motorhome & Accessory Sales

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    Interesting, we have a VW long wheel base 03 diesel van, similiar to a Fiat/Ford Transit/Peugot.

    SAME CAB/CHASSIS MOTORHOMES ARE BUILT ON and GUESS WHAT!

    04/02/2008 Not subject to LEZ

    Whats the difference, it is the same ENGINE

    Peter
     
  6. Rose Royce

    Rose Royce Read Only Funster

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    Oh dear! Here we go again.....the legislation that enables the penalising of some older diesel motorhomes is enacted by the GLA under powers devolved to them by Central Government. Petitions to the Prime Minister, whilst well intentioned, will yield no satisfactory response, they will simply refer you back to the GLA.
    See posts under the heading LONDON EMISSION
    ZONE PETITION
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2008
  7. GJH

    GJH Funster Life Member

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    Yes they do - motorhomes are caught purely because they are built on standard van chassis cabs

    Cars are specifically excluded from the charges. There are contact details on the LEZ web page if you want to ask them why.

    Graham
     
  8. Diabalo

    Diabalo Funster

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    What happens if you live inside the M25 and have one of the older MH's and keep it there?

    I am also with Geo, I won't visit anywhere I needed to pay .
     
  9. martyn

    martyn Read Only Funster

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    Just tried my reg.no. and it came up not subject to L.E.Z. It's a 19 year old 6.2L diesel. I can't see how an engine that age can possibly be exempt.Don't think i'll be taking the chance to find out anyhow.:Wink:
     
  10. GJH

    GJH Funster Life Member

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    That is the injustice of it Dane. There are all sorts of arguments for the improvement in air quality but it would have been perfectly possible for the GLA to exempt the (surely very few) affected residents.

    Graham
     
  11. GJH

    GJH Funster Life Member

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    It isn't the age of the vehicle but the emissions produced which is the governing factor. As you have found your reg no on the GLA/TfL database then that means the data relating to it have been submitted (probably by the manufacturer of the base vehicle) and it has passed.

    Graham
     
  12. bigfoot

    bigfoot Funster

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    Has any one put in the Airbus Super Jumo,Boeing Jumbo,777,727 et al. They fly over the area and deposit pollution over Central London?
     
  13. Johns_Cross_Motorhomes

    Johns_Cross_Motorhomes Trader - Motorhome & Accessory Sales

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    The point I am making, which no one seems to have grasped is that a standard chassis van cab is exempt, so why are MH's with the same engine and front chassis/cab NOT
     
  14. Rose Royce

    Rose Royce Read Only Funster

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    Ive just copied the following from my posts on "another forum"

    From:
    To: mayor@london.gov .uk
    Subject: L E Z
    Date: 11-Dec-2007 17:29:15 GMT

    Dear Mr Livingstone,

    Re London Emissions Zone

    I am a member of a number of forums related to motor homes.
    As you are aware, many motor home owners are vexed by the
    proposals by TfL to charge older, diesel, motor homes which
    are non-compliant.
    I appreciate that there is a need to reduce harmful
    emissions which may be produced by diesel engines, but
    cannot believe that it was your intention to so severely
    punish the small number of owners of, admittedly,
    non-compliant vehicles.
    As a result of these proposals, many owners of such vehicles
    will be forced to scrap them, as making them compliant is
    either not technically feasible or prohibitively expensive.
    I know it is within your power to exempt motor homes from
    the daily charge and would urge you to give this some more
    thought as many people consider the implementation of
    charging in this situation to be iniquitous.

    Regards, Robert Murray



    Here's the response to my email to Ken:

    Our ref: TFL074681

    31 January 2008

    Dear Mr Murray

    London Low Emission Zone: Motorcaravans

    Thank you for your email of 12 December 2007 to the Mayor of London, Ken Livingstone, regarding the Low Emission Zone (LEZ). As a member of the Low Emission Team I have been asked to respond on the Mayor’s behalf. Firstly let me apologise that you have not received a response sooner; this was due to an administrative error.

    The aim of the LEZ is to improve air quality in London by deterring the most individually polluting vehicles from driving in the area. London has the worst air pollution in the UK and amongst the worst in Europe. Air pollution affects the quality of life of a large number of Londoners, especially those with respiratory and cardiovascular conditions. It was estimated that in 2005 some 1000 premature deaths and similar number of hospital admissions occurred due to poor air quality in London. Many more people experience discomfort as a result of air quality aggravating existing conditions.

    Whilst we are sympathetic to your situation, Transport for London (TfL) does not discount or exempt motorcaravans from the LEZ as there are no technical reasons why such vehicles could not comply with the scheme. Motorcaravans have similar emissions characteristics to the Heavy Goods Vehicles (HGVs) and Light Goods Vehicles (LGVs) from which they are derived, and as such TfL and the Mayor consider that they should be subject to the same emissions requirements whether they are for commercial or private use.

    Operators of vehicles which do not meet the specified emissions standards for the LEZ have several options to comply with the scheme including:
    • Certifying that an eligible engine meets the required standard.
    • Fitting particulate abatement equipment to the vehicle. It should be possible to fit such equipment to reduce a vehicle’s particulate matter emissions sufficiently to meet the LEZ emissions standard. Normally this would either be a particulate trap or a partial filter. Information on approved abatement equipment and suppliers for fitting such equipment can be found on TfL’s website at Low Emission Zone | Transport for London, together with the processes for getting approved abatement equipment certified once fitted.
    • Re-engine a vehicle with an engine that meets the LEZ emissions standards
    • Converting a vehicle to gas
    • Purchasing a newer vehicle that meets the LEZ emissions standards.
    • Paying a daily charge.

    If you require any more information on the Low Emission Zone, Transport for London (TfL) have set up a dedicated enquiries service to help vehicle owners understand what the LEZ means for them and what they may have to do to comply with the scheme. TfL’s website Low Emission Zone | Transport for London provides much detailed information about the LEZ, alternatively call the dedicated call centre on 0845 607 0009.

    Thank you once again for writing, I am sorry this is not the response you were hoping for.

    Yours sincerely




    Rhona Munck
    Strategy Officer
    London Low Emission Zone



    This from TfL as a response to my email of 22/1 which is repeated in their email. Again, despite a reminder, no response!

    Murray,
    22nd January 2008
    Re: London Low Emission Zone (LEZ) Web Enquiry
    Thank you for your enquiry.
    Your enquiry was:
    Whilst agreeing with the need to reduce certain emissions I find that the "penalties" to be levied
    for those vehicles which do not comply, to be excessive and against natural justice. Looking at
    the model for cities in Germany, for instance, shows a more tolerable figure of €40. Many
    owners of non-compliant motorhomes live within the zone and are now virtually captive as they
    cannot leave home without paying. Surely that is not the intention?
    Your reference number is: L1682675
    Please retain this number as you will need to quote it should you contact us regarding this
    enquiry.
    Our dedicated Contact Centre team will deal with your enquiry, and a response will be sent via
    your preferred method of contact within 2 working days.
    Daljit Mahal
    Operations Manager
    Yours sincerely
    London Low Emission Zone


    Today I have received a written reply from the Coventry office of Daljit Mahal (in an envelope on which has been handwritten “AIRMAIL”! Following is his response.


    Thank you for your recent enquiry received on 22nd January 2008, regarding the LEZ scheme.
    The daily charge of £100 for motor homes is a substantial amount, because if what (sic) was only £20 or £30, most customers (my italics)would be happy to pay this amount, but this would not achieve the objective it was meant to do, as vehicles would still be polluting the air. The objective is cleaner air for Greater London.
    The LEZ Scheme isn’t designed to be a net revenue generating Scheme. The revenues of the Scheme aren’t expected to offset the costs of implementing and operating the Scheme. There may be some gross revenues from the LEZ Scheme raised through charge and penalty charge payments and these would contribute towards the operating costs of the Scheme.

    Not much more needs to be said.
     
  15. Johns_Cross_Motorhomes

    Johns_Cross_Motorhomes Trader - Motorhome & Accessory Sales

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    Thats a load of codswallop, ask them why my vans exempt.

    Reg no KN03HTL, VW, find some more reg numbers for standard diesel vans built using same chassis/cabs as MH's and check those on the TFL site.

    Regards
     
  16. GJH

    GJH Funster Life Member

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    I think you must have confused compliance with exemptions Peter.

    The only classes of vehicles which are exempt, other than "cars, motorcycles and small vans (under 1.205 tonnes unladen weight)" and non-diesel engined vehicles, are listed HERE. There is no "standard chassis van cab" in the list.

    In terms of compliance, as a general point TfL say that vehicles first registered as new on or after 1 October 2001 are assumed to meet the standard. Specific vehicles can be checked HERE.

    Graham
     
  17. GJH

    GJH Funster Life Member

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    No - because, not surprisingly, control of air traffic is still a government responsibility and has not been devolved to the GLA.

    Whether we like it or not, the LEZ deals purely with emissions from large diesel engined vehicles and thus planes would be exempt anyway.

    Graham
     
  18. Johns_Cross_Motorhomes

    Johns_Cross_Motorhomes Trader - Motorhome & Accessory Sales

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    Strange that TFL say motorhomes are subject to the extra charge, yet when I check registrations of some of our current stock and include an S and an R reg, none of them are subject to the extra charge and are exempt.

    Do these people actually know what they are talking about one wonders or have I lost the plot somewhere seeing as my LGV is exempt as well.

    Quote "Whilst we are sympathetic to your situation, Transport for London (TfL) does not discount or exempt motorcaravans from the LEZ as there are no technical reasons why such vehicles could not comply with the scheme. Motorcaravans have similar emissions characteristics to the Heavy Goods Vehicles (HGVs) and Light Goods Vehicles (LGVs) from which they are derived, and as such TfL and the Mayor consider that they should be subject to the same emissions requirements whether they are for commercial or private use. "
     
  19. GJH

    GJH Funster Life Member

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    The TfL quotation you have cited does not say that motorhomes are subject to the extra charge. What it says is that Transport for London (TfL) does not discount or exempt motorcaravans from the LEZ as there are no technical reasons why such vehicles could not comply with the scheme.

    The fact that you have checked certain individual registrations and found that they will not be charged does not mean that they are exempt, it means that their engines comply with the emissions criteria.

    Whatever the rights and wrongs of the LEZ may be, TfL do actually know what they are talking about.

    Graham
     
  20. Rose Royce

    Rose Royce Read Only Funster

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    You have to face facts. It doesn't matter whether or not TfL know what they are talking about - they make(up) the rules as they think fit. A bit like the referee and that disputed penalty - their word is law!
    The only chance that things will change is if Boris gets in and drops the whole thing - unlikely tho' as this type of ban is becoming the norm in Europe, particularly Germany (although the charges(penalties) are a lot lower).
     
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