Another Vehicle Battery Problem

Discussion in 'The Beginner' started by treasuredgiftsuk, Feb 14, 2012.

  1. treasuredgiftsuk

    treasuredgiftsuk Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2012
    Messages:
    89
    Likes Received:
    18
    Location:
    Portugal
    Took our Fiat Ducato Toskana 1985 for a full service and it had to be jumped off. Battery turned engine but it would not start before battery ran out of steam.
    During the service the guy said he would flush out the engine as the starting problem plus a lot of smoke coming from the exhaust could be because it had been stood a while and could be clogged up.
    Brought it home and found it had a leak underneath, not present before the service. Tried to start it to take back to garage same problem battery turned engine of a short time but it would not start before battery became flat.
    Mechanic said it needed new fuel injectors as air was getting into the engine and could be causing the starting problem and also the radiator needed replacing. He checked the battery and said it was ok.
    Had this done brought it home and the next day it would not start yet again.
    €800 further on and still problems.
    Jumped it off and took it back to the garage. The guy rang this morning and said he had tried to start it with a replacement battery but still the same problem. He said the battery was a 70amp and he said he is going to try a 90amp to see if it will give the engine a bit longer boost. He is going to put the battery on today and leave it overnight and then try in the morning when it is very cold.

    My question is: Has anyone else ever had this particular problem with a starter batter and if so how was the problem solved? Any suggestions would be appreciated as I am now getting towards the end of my tether.

    We have only had this motor home a few weeks and never been able to go anywhere in it yet.

    ps when the engine is warm after driving around 10km to the garage it starts perfectly well. :Angry:
     
  2. Reallyretired

    Reallyretired Funster

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2008
    Messages:
    5,708
    Likes Received:
    3,212
    Location:
    Eastbourne East Sussex
    No idea, but from other posts you could probably save money by taking it to Morocco and getting it fixed there, probably change from a fiver :Smile:
     
  3. CHRI$

    CHRI$ Funster

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2009
    Messages:
    5,595
    Likes Received:
    7,102
    Location:
    england
    find a machanic,that can fix thing's and does not enjoy dipping his hand in your back pocket so much:Sad:
    the main reason i do all my own serviceing and fitting:thumb:
     
  4. Emmenay

    Emmenay Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2011
    Messages:
    364
    Likes Received:
    274
    Location:
    Anywhere
    I think the mechanic should be doing a compression test by now and testing the glow plug operation.

    A diesel engine with very low compression will turn over and over especially when it is cold until the battery gives up. What colour is the smoke? A bluey colour i suspect. What is the mileage?
     
  5. treasuredgiftsuk

    treasuredgiftsuk Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2012
    Messages:
    89
    Likes Received:
    18
    Location:
    Portugal
    Wise Guys

    To you wise guys I am a newbie and paid to join this forum to get helpful advice not wise cracks from jokers. I know sod all about engines and my husband knows even less so your comments are worthless.

    But thank you so much not!:Eek!:
     
  6. wolly

    wolly Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2010
    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    ripon n yorkshire
    wolly north yorkshire

    hi
    i have had simaler problam 2.8 engine big old engine to crank over when cold.i bought a new battery last june ok to start my van in warm weather but last week whenit was -4 it just did start. next day about flat.this battery has a cold crancking hour of 630.not power fullenough.so i have just bought today another new battery that has cch of850 and 100ah if yours is starting with jump start i would get battery tested.also get the starter motor checked my old battery sayes it is fully charged but not power fullenough to turn it over fastenough.i try to do my own servicing if i can at least you no it is done hope it helps you
    ps i put my daughters battery on my van befor i bought a new on hers is cch 720 and it nearley through it out of its bed so this cch 850 should be on top of its job roll on - 4 0r 5 or7 onley kidding good luck.
     
  7. treasuredgiftsuk

    treasuredgiftsuk Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2012
    Messages:
    89
    Likes Received:
    18
    Location:
    Portugal
    Hi, the mechanic says the glo plugs are fine but has not mentioned the compression. Yes the smoke is a sort of light/grey blue.

    The problem is we are at present living in the Algarve and it is very difficult to find a decent and honest mechanic. They are very thin on the ground.

    I shall ask him to do a compression test, what is this exactly?
     
  8. treasuredgiftsuk

    treasuredgiftsuk Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2012
    Messages:
    89
    Likes Received:
    18
    Location:
    Portugal
    Oh and by the way to quot the above, beginner being the operative word.

    THE BEGINNER The beginners guide to motorhomes. Have you just bought your first motorhome? Have you got lots of questions? This Motorhome Beginners forum his the place to ask your first questions. Go on ask away, we don't bite. With so many members ready to help others you will quickly get the answers you need.

    chrisgreen find a machanic,that can fix thing's and does not enjoy dipping his hand in your back pocket so much:Sad:
    the main reason i do all my own serviceing and fitting


    Well maybe one day I will be able to, I am just learning hence asking for help!

    nearlyretired No idea, but from other posts you could probably save money by taking it to Morocco and getting it fixed there, probably change from a fiver

    If the bloody thing would start I would not have to take it to Morocco!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. treasuredgiftsuk

    treasuredgiftsuk Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2012
    Messages:
    89
    Likes Received:
    18
    Location:
    Portugal
    Hi, thanks for your reply.

    I have just spent the last 2 hours researching starting problems and batteries. According to the specialists they say the you should choose a battery with a CCA the same as or not much higher than recommended by the vehicle manufacturer as it can cause other problems. So choosing one much higher worries me a bit.
     
  10. CHRI$

    CHRI$ Funster

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2009
    Messages:
    5,595
    Likes Received:
    7,102
    Location:
    england
    i could go through a whole list of thing's that could solve your problem,but i wont,as i think your machanic is taking the piss,and i will not give him ammo to rip you off some more,why did he change the injectors?? as it never solved anything,why did he flush out the cooling system?? as it never solved anything,replacing the rad i can understand if it was leaking:thumb:
    so now he is going to possiblely sell you a new battery,wont solve any thing,i would be looking at the starter motor,it works fine with a jump but not off its own battery,mmmmm
    and dont worry about the smoke on start up its an old engine, mine smokes a bit on start up, most diesel's do:RollEyes:
     
  11. treasuredgiftsuk

    treasuredgiftsuk Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2012
    Messages:
    89
    Likes Received:
    18
    Location:
    Portugal
    Hi again, just looked up what vehicle compression means and see that it could be the cylinder head gasket. The engine was rebuilt in 2008 and the cylinder head gasket was replaced. Since this was done the vehicle has only been driven 10,000 miles. Oh by the way it has done 170,000 kilometers (105,00 miles) since new.
     
  12. CHRI$

    CHRI$ Funster

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2009
    Messages:
    5,595
    Likes Received:
    7,102
    Location:
    england
    forgot to mention that a cold engine takes a lot more cranking by the starter than a warm engine,and being a diesel a whole lot more:Smile:
     
  13. treasuredgiftsuk

    treasuredgiftsuk Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2012
    Messages:
    89
    Likes Received:
    18
    Location:
    Portugal
    Thanks Chris. The reason he changed the injectors was that he said it was leaking diesel.
    It was not the cooling system he flushed out but the engine I believe ie fuel side of it.
    The radiator was not leaking but a lot of the fins were missing at the back so was in poor condition. He did show us it after taking it out.
    The guy we bought it from had just had a new starter motor before he drove it out here in September last year.
    As per my other entry:

    Hi again, just looked up what vehicle compression means and see that it could be the cylinder head gasket. The engine was rebuilt in 2008 and the cylinder head gasket was replaced. Since this was done the vehicle has only been driven 10,000 miles. Oh by the way it has done 170,000 kilometers (105,00 miles) since new.
     
  14. CHRI$

    CHRI$ Funster

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2009
    Messages:
    5,595
    Likes Received:
    7,102
    Location:
    england
    so the guy you bought it off fitted a new starter,now we are getting somewere:thumb:perhaps he had starting problems??
    get the guy to do a compression test,dont worry about the headcasket,might not be that,i wont go into what it could be untill the result of a compression test?:Smile:
     
  15. treasuredgiftsuk

    treasuredgiftsuk Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2012
    Messages:
    89
    Likes Received:
    18
    Location:
    Portugal
    Hi Chris,

    I have been suspicious from the start about starting problems because:

    He spent over £2,000 having the engine rebuilt because he said it had an oil leak.
    Not long after he had the cylinder head gasket done.
    He bought a new battery and starter motor last September.
    Silly me thought, at the time of buying, that if it had, had all that work done on it then it must be good.
    Oh yes and by the way, at some point a previous owner had fitted a manual choke lever to the dashboard. Do diesels even have chokes?

    All this makes me wonder if this vehicle has always had a problem starting and what in gods name will the solution be.
     
  16. wolly

    wolly Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2010
    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    ripon n yorkshire
    wolly

    hi
    manufacture tells me more cch the better and can do no damage what-soever.it could onley rip engine mountings off i dont think
     
  17. CHRI$

    CHRI$ Funster

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2009
    Messages:
    5,595
    Likes Received:
    7,102
    Location:
    england
    no diesel dont have chokes,but some do have a cold starting system that will allow more fuel to enter the cylinders,some are electronic and some are operated by a soleniod and a short cable,it might be this that he has connected the cable to, doing away with the soleniod,could be worn bores dropping the compression,hard to tell unless i had the van here,but that not an option with you being in portugal:Sad:
     
  18. treasuredgiftsuk

    treasuredgiftsuk Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2012
    Messages:
    89
    Likes Received:
    18
    Location:
    Portugal
    Hi Chris,

    Shame we aren't in the UK would feel much happier getting it fixed there. Thanks for your help, will see what the mechanic has to say tomorrow. According to my husband the mechanic talked about maybe doing a compression test when we took it in yesterday.
    After reading up on compression tests this should have been done before putting a new fuel injector kit in if I have read correctly a compression test will also determine if this is necessary. Cheers!
     
  19. treasuredgiftsuk

    treasuredgiftsuk Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2012
    Messages:
    89
    Likes Received:
    18
    Location:
    Portugal
    Sorry are we talking about something different. I am talking cca cold cranking amps. Don't know what cch is.
     
  20. Emmenay

    Emmenay Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2011
    Messages:
    364
    Likes Received:
    274
    Location:
    Anywhere
    I don't wish to worry you but;

    High mileage = Worn bores/piston rings = low compression = Harder to start = blue smoke when started = constantly topping up engine oil.

    If you fit a much more powerful battery you will have better chance of it starting after a few turns but the root cause will remain.

    I would strongly suggest you find another mechanic as trial and error before a compression test is not acceptable. If he was machanically minded the symptons you decribe plus the high mileage says it all i'm afraid.
     
    • Like Like x 1
Loading...

Share This Page