Aires and wild-camping in suitable locations

Discussion in 'Motorhome Chat' started by John & Joan, Jul 19, 2010.

  1. John & Joan

    John & Joan Funster

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  2. parkay3560

    parkay3560 Read Only Funster

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    way to go John

    fully and completely agree with everything you put on the website. Its about time us MHers got the clean end of the stick instead of the ***t end. Who should legislation that came out when folk used to walk in front of cars with red bloody flags still be the same in the 21st century. Times move on- the laws should change with the times- and not in an authoritarian way that curtails civil liberties either.

    I will follow this thread with interest.

    Bessy regs

    Kenny
     
  3. barryd

    barryd Read Only Funster

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    Very well put. Ive given it a rating and added a supportive comment if thats ok.

    Im just not sure it will ever happen in this country though. There has been an ongoing dialogue with a Forestry Commision ranger on the wildcamping site who had posted on three occasions telling people not to wild camp in the Lake District and I actually entered into a long debate via email with this guy and they just dont get it, they dont just see a motorhome the same as they do a tent or a caravan. Totally blinkered vision. I suspect many councils, politicians and the general public feel the same.

    Very very sad but good luck!!!
     
  4. scotjimland

    scotjimland Funster Life Member

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    A well presented case.. well written

    However, I wouldn't have used the term 'wild camping ' in the title, it may give the wrong impression ..

    I think 'Motor Caravan, - Aires and Parking' would have been been less contentious


    Comment added to petition
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2010
  5. barryd

    barryd Read Only Funster

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    Agreed. I didnt really take that in but your right. Can it be changed?
     
  6. John & Joan

    John & Joan Funster

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    I have had a look and there are no editing facilities.

    John
     
  7. barryd

    barryd Read Only Funster

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    Well the main message is in the content which is very well worded.
     
  8. scotjimland

    scotjimland Funster Life Member

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    no big deal.. it is a good letter

    now, what we need is more forum members to sign up and log on and make their voice heard..

    so come on folks.. this thread has had over 100 hits but only 12 have made their voice heard ..if you don't shout no one will hear .. it's simple to register ..
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2010
  9. johnp10

    johnp10 Funster

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    Well done, John.
    Case very well put.
    John
     
  10. parkay3560

    parkay3560 Read Only Funster

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    Been and registered and added my bit......
     
  11. barryd

    barryd Read Only Funster

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    Its on FACTS now as well so even more coverage!
     
  12. cornishaich

    cornishaich Read Only Funster

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    Great! you have put our case as well as could be put,:thumb: Lets hope for change.:Doh:
     
  13. John & Joan

    John & Joan Funster

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    A post quote from another forum

    It is now a month since this issue was posted and so far it has generated 105 comments and has been supported by 98 votes with a rating of 4.6 out of 5.

    This is not a great number considering the number of Motor Caravans registered in the UK and the amount of comment the issue generates on this and other forums alone. If this is to be taken seriously we need many more Motorhome users to register on the "Your Freedom" website and support this by rating it, as well as commenting.
    http://yourfreedom.hmg.gov.uk/@@search?text=camping+cars

    I agree with the contributor to the other site that we do need to get together and cooperate in promoting this issue. We already have a number of competent people, working independently promoting this issue, by contacting local authorities but also many more who write to a council and put the issue forward without any support from others who have been down this road before them. We do need to approach this in a business like manner.

    We have existing clubs but they do not seem interested in promoting Aire type stop overs in the UK.

    I have been working on a document to support approaches to Local Authorities and will be happy to forward by email a copy to anyone interested in reading it for comments and criticism. If we can approach councils with a uniform approach we stand more chance of achieving our goal.

    You can contact me by PM on here with an email address and I will send a copy to you. Once a suitable document is available it can, if Jim is happy with it, be put into the downloads area for other to print and use to support their induvidual approaches.

    John
     
  14. GJH

    GJH Funster Life Member

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    Having discussed parking with every LA in the UK, having been partially instrumental in the provision of the overnight stop facility at Guisborough and having seen several petitions and approaches to LAs by individuals in the past I reluctantly came to the conclusion some months ago that relatively few people actually want aire type facilities in the UK.

    The councillor quoted is undoubtedly correct in highlighting the need to provide "a convincing business case to justify the benefits and to identify where the funding would come from", especially in these days of public sector spending cuts.

    Another thought which struck me a short while ago was whether I was right when I advanced what I believed was a valid business case in the past - if the case is so economically viable (i.e. potentially profitable) why haven't private sector entrepreneurs set up aires already?

    Graham
     
  15. John & Joan

    John & Joan Funster

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    If you keep pushing hard enough at doors they eventually open.

    Thanks for all the good work you have done so far Graham. Please do give up.

    John
     
  16. GJH

    GJH Funster Life Member

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    Many of the arguments for councils establishing aire type facilities revolve around the fact that extra visitors to a town will bring extra trade to local businesses. Whilst in some cases (though not many?) that might result in extra people being employed, in the main the extra trade will really translate to extra profit for the businesses involved.

    Given that councils have so many pressures on their budgets at the moment can we expect them to (basically) turn taxpayers' money into extra profits for businesses by spending on the provision of aires? Might it not be more appropriate to ask the businesses themselves to make the necessary investment on the grounds that they will see a return on it?

    The British Chambers of Commerce have a web site Here with links to all the local chambers in the country. Anyone sufficiently interested might wish to contact each of the local chambers and advance the argument in the hope that they might persuade their members to invest.

    Graham
     
  17. scotjimland

    scotjimland Funster Life Member

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    I've heard this argument many times Graham and am still not convinced that it is the case to any appreciable value ..

    If like me, and probably the vast majority, before heading for a site or aire we stock up at a supermarket with both provisions and fuel.. fill the fridge and freezer because we know it will be far more expensive if purchased in a local store.

    yes, we may buy a few trinkets, the odd item we forget or run out of, or even a fish supper but by and large, those looking for cheap / free overnight stops are not big spenders , not because they are mean or tight but are running on a tight budget..

    I think you would have a hard job convincing local business people that it was to their financial benefit to invest in mh parking
     
  18. GJH

    GJH Funster Life Member

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    I agree Jim. As I said the other day, if the case is so economically viable (i.e. potentially profitable) why haven't private sector entrepreneurs set up aires already?

    If there isn't actually any benefit to the local area (i.e. the local taxpayers) we can hardly expect councils to invest money they have raised from those taxpayers just so we can have somewhere cheap/free to stop overnight.

    Graham
     
  19. Simba

    Simba Read Only Funster

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    Registered and added our bit as well.
     
  20. John & Joan

    John & Joan Funster

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    Hi Graham

    The simple answer to why private sector entrepreneurs have not set up Airs is the Planning Laws and the Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act 1960. Add to this Model Standards for caravan Sites that planners insist on.

    Getting planning would involve going through all of the hoops that any other site would have to comply with. A site licence would need to be obtained. Site licences are not normally issued unless a site is for 10 or more pitches. Model standards dictate spacing between units. The number of toilets, Wash Basins and showers that have to be provided for users of each sex. Distance from Water points and disposal facilities. Width of roads etc.

    All of this would make it more economical to set up a caravan site rather than try to provide Aire type facilities

    Local Authorities under the 1960 Act can set up a site without the need for a site licence. They can also decide that reduced facilities can be provided for a site.

    By providing Presumed Planning for Aire type facilities, as is the case with sites for exempted organisations, Government could cut out a lot of bureaucracy involved in seeking planning permission.

    As I read it the 1960 Act
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    John
     
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