Advice please re M/H purchase ? (1 Viewer)

[gixermark]

Hi all

In need of some prompt advice please !:thumb:

Found a 2008 Swift Kontiki 669 we have been after at a resonable price. Did the deal re a phone call and have paid a deposit, refundable. We are due to go upto see the M/H tomorrow morning ( Sat 17/04/10 ) During my initial conversation with the salesman, I mentioned the problem re reverse judder etc and was told it doesnt effect the 3.0ltr version, I also checked with Fiat Uk who said the same!

I have read conflicting reports that they don't / some do!

So, this evening the saleman phoned and said whilst moving the vehicle today, the driver noticed something wrong with the clutch and took it to their workshop where it was agreed something isn't right so a possible new clutch may be fitted. The vehicle has only covered 5400 miles and has had 2 owners. oh:

The salesman has come accross as honest, he has answered all my past questions and phoned back upon not being able to answer something. Re the clutch, he has said he is prepared to bring the M/H to us in the week once fixed to make a yes or no decision if we want the vehicle, a very nice offer I think you'd agree! We are all set to travel so will be going up tomorrow anyway. He has said once we see the vehicle, if we are still interested, upon collection at a later date, a long test drive will be carried out and at the end if not happy, we can have our deposit back and walk away or choose another M/H they may have in stock.

They have only had the vehicle on their premises since Tuesday so would have had little time to find the problem and have, or it seems to be, been very honest up front. Some dealers would have tried to let the M/H go as is then fight the cause after ..... !!!!

Now my dilema. The dealer in question has come in for some fair bit of stick on this and other forums however, as with everything I have read, it is only a few in total and as they are a very large dealer it must be a very small overall percentage of customers.

I know they have had a few others very interested in the M/H, other one's we have looked at on the net have since sold this week so it is not a 'hard-sale' they are after. All finances are set in place, we just have to see the M/H and the deal is done. Knowing Fiat have this problem, we could opt to buy from elsewhere and not have as much help if it goes pair shaped with another company.

What do we do? Carry on ( I am more than happy to as I do have a good 'feel' to this sale ! ) or walk away ??????

Appreciate your thoughts and sorry for the long, winded thread!

Before anyone ask's, I will NOT name the dealer as it is not fair and I don't see any reason to! :thumb:

 

[sundancekid]

Mark,

From reading your thread, I think you have already convinced yourself to buy this van as soon as they fix the judder. You also seem a lot more experienced than me at this game, (I'm a newby, get my wagon soon.... I hope!)

The problem with going onto different sites to get personal reviews is that most people never write anything when all is okay. It's only when things go wrong and the fingers start typing.

I agree with you that getting the right 'feel' is important. Either the salesman is very honest or the best con-merchant out. But having said that, the terms of the sale seem very good. Have you thought of getting the RAC or AA to have a look at it? I have not doubt that being a 2008 model, you're talking a lot more than a few quid!

Anyway, I hope all goes well and that you have many happy years of motorhoming.:thumb:

 

[nomadic]

Hi Gixwemark,

The 3 litre is not effected by "the judder".

The clutch....well, is the dealer one of the two owners?

Does this dealer also "hire" motorhomes?

If "no" & "no" then with the offer of a good warranty and repair to the clutch, or replacement, and you are still happy with it, then I would be tempted to proceed, provided I had inspected and checked with a moisture meter.

I must say it sounds good, go and look, and get them to leave you alone to test every thing.

Good luck:thumb:


Nomadic

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[gixermark]

Oh I love these forums .... Such a promt reply to our worrying evening!

Thank you both for your advice, will get warranty set in stone if we do go ahead!

And as far as I am aware, it is not an ex rental ( has auto seek sat system fitted etc !! )

Thanks.

 

[White Rose]

Would the dealership put you in touch with the previous owners so they could put your mind at rest? A car dealer did this for me a few years ago.

It sounds like your instinct is to go ahead - I'd generally trust your instincts as it usually means your subconscious is trying to let you know something useful

 

[VMax666]

Might be worth asking if the dealer is just fitting a new clutch or if it is going to a Fiat dealer for the full monty ( did they fit new engine mount on the 3LT?) VMax

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[gixermark]

I did think of that White Rose & as you have mentioned it, I will ask tomorrow. After all, the dealer can only say no!

I am a great believer in sub-conscious thought and currently it has possitive vibes .... It may change once I meet the dealer !!!

I will ask re clutch VMax .....

Thanks for the reply both ...

 

[bmwtouring]

"GOOD LUCK" today hope it all turns out well for you

 

[theresa]

we have a 3lt fiat (2007) and no problems at all with regards to judder , in fact other half loves it tells me it drives like a dream (sad oh ) :Blush::Blush:

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[Lincolnshire Rover]

There are many trains of thought here my thoughts are he who hesitates is lost we use the green light theory if all avenues lead on a green light then its ok to proceed its better the devil you know than the one you don't to me your dealer is being more than fair and honest and if i was in your position and felt comfortable with the motorhome and dealer then I would not hesitate and go ahead.

 

[Minxy]

Unfortunately the 3L manual is NOT immune from judder, if you look at other forums you'll find some very lengthy threads and certainly the 3L manual has been found to have a problem, albeit, as with the other engine variants, it appears that not all are affected. There may not be as much posted about the 3L manual as there aren't as many about as the smaller engined MHs.

The only one which some owners claim is not experiencing the judder at all is the 3L automatic, but again, that depends on what YOU want to believe (not that I'm suggesting that these owners are lying). As they are even more thin on the ground the feedback from them is very limited ineed, but there have been some comments about problems with them.

A chap who came recently with his mate to buy something we were selling happened to spot our motorhome so had a chat to my husband. This chap has a 3L manual and has had nothing but problems with it (I wasn't around at the time so didn't quiz him to death!). He's only had his MH for 18 months and is seriously considering getting shot of it as it's had all the fixes but it hasn't worked and he's frightened to go on holiday abroad in it.

If you do decide to proceed, find out what work has been done on it - Fiat should be able to tell you/the dealer exactly what has been done from their records and whether there are any outstanding works that need to be carried out.

As for the dealer not knowing about the problems with this van ... hmmmmm ... they must have assessed it before they took it in ... surely!

 

[gixermark]

Thanks all for taking the time to reply to my thread.:thumb:

As an update : We visited the dealer on Saturday and liked what we saw, it had a few very small cosmetic problems but this was written down to be sorted. Unfortunatly we were as previously mentioned unable to test drive the van !!!! I was told with some vigor from the salesman ( Could this be the usual salesman talk ! ) that if the vehicle was unable to be repaired at their own workshop, they have 2 big Fiat dealers nearby and the van will be taken there and sorted. He mentioned it is in their interest to have this right before we take delivery .....is this to true to believe having promises made like this !!!!oh:

Anyway, as I speak I am awaiting a phone call from the dealer to give me an update on wether or not there is a problem ................ Will update as info arrives ......

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[DESCO]

Don't like the sound of salesman's promises, no body can promise that problems can be fixed not even Fiat, they can only say they will try, it may work on the other hand it may not. This is what I have gleaned from reading various forums on this matter.


Dave :thumb::thumb:

 

[rainbow chasers]

It appears that the salesman is being very helpful - as you say, most would just claim on warranty afterwards.

As regards to mileage, it is not unheard of for these to fail around 6,000 - so if it is showing symptoms, just as well it is being sorted - just make sure they do any gearbox mods that Fiat have been on about.

It is also a bonus, in the sense that, once a warranty is on the vehicle - you will be hard pushed to get it done again through a warranty company (they only like paying for things once!) So if the dealer is sorting it for you before purchase, then all well and good.

If you feel good about the vehicle, then go for it - as long as the after care continues in the same vain, you should be fine. For private use, you shouldn't have too many problems touch wood.

 

[dave & Jan]

Thanks all for taking the time to reply to my thread.:thumb:

As an update : We visited the dealer on Saturday and liked what we saw, it had a few very small cosmetic problems but this was written down to be sorted. Unfortunatly we were as previously mentioned unable to test drive the van !!!! I was told with some vigor from the salesman ( Could this be the usual salesman talk ! ) that if the vehicle was unable to be repaired at their own workshop, they have 2 big Fiat dealers nearby and the van will be taken there and sorted. He mentioned it is in their interest to have this right before we take delivery .....is this to true to believe having promises made like this !!!!oh:

Anyway, as I speak I am awaiting a phone call from the dealer to give me an update on wether or not there is a problem ................ Will update as info arrives ......

Yes it could be the usual salesman talk. When we had put a deposit on a 3 litre Swift Kon-tiki and were going to collect we mentioned the "water ingress" to them "Never heard of it they replied" (We said to look on any motorhome forums, which we unfortunately hadn't had the forsight to do before we bought, if we had we would have chosen a different base) Well they had heard of this but because Fiat hadn't accepted it they weren't allowed to say. This is our opinion, the conclusion we came to, you get to read people. We later had the mods/cover done .

It's the same as the 2.3 litre IMO, they admit they have a problem with the judder but say it has/can be fixed. With the 3 litre, again, Fiat say there isn't a problem so the salesman also won't say anything. Not even to ask if the mods have been done when you p/x at the moment (because there isn't a problem as they say). I'm pretty sure it would be a different story if Fiat did admit it and the dealers were taking a p/x that hadn't had the mods done.

We loved our Kon-tiki, thought we would have it for many years. As someone else said "it drove like a dream" unfortunately we couldn't rely on it, always worried about what was going to happen next. So we very reluctantly p/x for a 2.4 RWD Ford base (nearly caused a divorce!!) The Ford drives even better according to my husband. Fiat and the dealers should realise the heartbreak they cause when people are spending such a lot of money. It makes me wonder how many of them are motorhomers. None owned a motorhome at the dealers where we bought BTW!!

Janice.

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[haganap]

wow, Gixermark, what a great thread,,,
Im sat here wondering which way you will go and you are keeping me guessing.

So heres my thoughts, this is truly written on me and what I would do, it does not constitute advice in any way.....

I would ask questions on a motorhome forum,,,

then ignore all advice given and go with my Gut instinct.

Any problems can always be fixed, my only thought would be make sure that any potential problems are reflected in the price.Ie if its having little issues then it aint top dollar.:thumb:

also, I know the dealer in question Im sure, many have nothing but bad words, Many though have nothing but good words, so based on that,,,,

who knows

but keep us informed and remember this last thing,

YOU DONT GO BACKWARD OFTEN

 

[Scout]

the question in my mind is, "if you dont buy this motorhome, will you buy anotherone of the same base type" if the answers yes then you must ask what would be the better buy, between one thats got an unknown clutch, and one that has a new one with a warranty

personly Im glad mines the old shape base, good luck

 

[Cavs]

3 litre auto feedback

In case it's any help - we have owned a Fiat 3 litre with Comfortmatic box since last October. I would not have bought either the auto or the uprated engine by choice, but everything else about the van was right. However, I'm really glad we did.

The vehicle is a dream to drive, changing gear predictably and when I would. There is not a hint of judder, despite some difficult reversing on sites. :thumb:

Good luck with your decision!
Stephen

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[gixermark]

Thanks again all for the kind and helpful replies.:thumb:

As an update today :

The dealer has said they thought it was the master slave cylinder ( now fitted inside the bell-housing ..... !!!!!! ) but have changed their minds and are replacing the clutch, being delivered & fitted tomorrow ( Friday )
They have been very appologetic re no delivery this weekend but are sure it will be available for next weekend. I do think this weekends Peterborough show has a lot to answer for re delays etc !!! We were a little dissapointed as collection this weekend suited us well but hey, these things happen and we want it to be 100% correct.
One bonus is they have promised a full tank of fuel on collection !!!!:thumb:

Let you know any progress next week ...........

P.S. Haganap ...... Yep, I think you are correct when you have tried to guess our dealer !:shout:

 

[White Rose]

Perhaps once you've completed your purchase, you could "name and praise" as a bit of an balance to the negative comments your dealership might usually get? Sounds like they're being very reasonable indeed.

 

[kennygd]

I read somewhere in the forum that the problem with some Fiat judder was not caused by the clutch but an extra stabiliser bar and once that was fitted the problem was cured, if you have a dealer that is up front as yours then stick with him, I bought my Araphao from a good dealer in Godalming and the only fault was not enough information on handover and I had to keep phoning them about silly things that I found in the motorhome that I new nothing about.
kennygd

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[gixermark]

Yeah I will do White Rose .... Just holding it close to my chest at the mo as praise to early may go amiss ................

 

[Scout]

Yeah I will do White Rose .... Just holding it close to my chest at the mo as praise to early may go amiss ................

and the way fuel prices are going up, a free full tank might just bankrupt them,


pleased you got it sorted, bet you cant wait to get it on the road

 

[gixermark]

Update :

Well ............ We got her !!!!! :thumb:

Went up last Saturday ( 01/05 ) early, had to wait all day as they had a problem with the tv's but by 17.30 we were sat in the holding area surveying our new pride n joy!

Following morning, early, off we slipped Hereford bound. On the way back a journey of some 2 1/2 hrs, we noticed awful clutch burn smell but the M/H drove like a dream! By the time we were home I was almost convinced the smell had gone. A mate who own's his own garage was good enough to come out for a drive in the afternoon, he put her through her paces and agreed the clutch was a good-un however, the smell shouldn't be there!!!!

He is sure it is the 'old' burnt out clutch still smelling and has strongly suggested changing the pollen filters which we are doing this weekend!

So far we have been impressed by the dealer but as they still have some things to sort out I will not name them just yet!

Only thing that let the dealer down was they promised to clean the interior but didn't ! Only a small thing as we would clean it to our liking but .................:Blush:

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[lorger]

Hi Glad you got it and hopefully everything will be ok happy motorhoming

 

[gixermark]

Update :

Ok, said I'd keep you upto date re who the dealer is !

Well, some may be shocked to know it is Brownhill's, Newark !!!!

We feel we have had a very good service from them, they let them selves down a wee bit on after care but all has been sorted now.:thumb:

Special thanks to Terry Sadler ( salesman ) and Geoff Tucker ( finance )

Terry appeared to go over & above what is expected from a salesman and for that we thank him ..... Just wish he would phone when he say's he will !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Away bank holiday weekend on our 1st trip .... hope the weather holds up as we cant' wait !

See ya :thumb:

 

[Wildman]

Thanks again all for the kind and helpful replies.:thumb:

As an update today :

The dealer has said they thought it was the master slave cylinder ( now fitted inside the bell-housing ..... !!!!!! ) but have changed their minds and are replacing the clutch, being delivered & fitted tomorrow ( Friday )

so what happened to has to go to Fiat workshop. sounds like they replaced the slave cylinder and not the clutch. Clutch problems resulted from a number of faults including Judder, Maybe you should make sure the work is done at a Fiat dealership and include gearbox mods, engine mounts and a new clutch.

Update :


He is sure it is the 'old' burnt out clutch still smelling and has strongly suggested changing the pollen filters which we are doing this weekend!

So far we have been impressed by the dealer but as they still have some things to sort out I will not name them just yet!

Only thing that let the dealer down was they promised to clean the interior but didn't ! Only a small thing as we would clean it to our liking but .................:Blush:

Only hope you are justified in your faith in the aftersales. Do make sure you keep any and all documentation and also make sure all promises are non verbal.

Update :


Well, some may be shocked to know it is Brownhill's, Newark !!!!

If after reading some of the comments about and promises made by the aforementioned company you were still happy to go ahead then I can only wish you the very best of luck. Aftersales service is not something they are renowned for. however every change of mangement brings fresh ideas and practices. So who knows just what they are like now. Hell they even advertise on here.

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