A Frames

Discussion in 'Continental Touring' started by slverdreamers, Mar 4, 2012.

  1. slverdreamers

    slverdreamers Read Only Funster

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    I know this has been done to death, but have just been reading Smart a Tows web site and they state that no one with their A Frame has ever been stopped in the EU and they state that if any one is fined, they will pay the fine. Makes you think.
    Still not bringing ours to Spain.
     
  2. TheBig1

    TheBig1 Funster Life Member

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    I would suggest that you get the promise of payment in writing and read the small print. Most likely excludes countries where the law specifically state they are illegal
     
  3. scotjimland

    scotjimland Funster Life Member

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    Maybe they are finding sales are being affected by recent forum postings.. (not just on Fun) so better to pay an odd fine than lose sales..

    it's a good gamble.. for them ..
     
  4. Billy23

    Billy23 Funster

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    Mmmmmm, isn't that against the law of Europe to encourage you to break the law of any member state, bit like you break into the shop and if they catch you ...dont worry I will go to prison for you.

    Then of course it's not just the fine, it's the hassle...unhitched the car, hope your partner can drive the car......so on .....so on....

    Hah shan't bother.
     
  5. beachcaster

    beachcaster Read Only Funster

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    I really want one............just not pressed the button yet..... saw a lady driving her motorhome at Shepton last year...........pullung a Yaris Diesel Auto..and though .......hey Ive got one of those at home ( the Yaris )

    But which one?......only to use here and france perhaps

    She was using a

    http://www.tow-bars2tow-cars.co.uk/

    and loved it ..was very light too.....anyone got one ??.......4 wheels have got to be better than 2 ?

    barry
     
  6. dennismartin

    dennismartin Read Only Funster

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    taking mine to them tommorow
     
  7. 656

    656 Read Only Funster

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    Tow bars to tow cars use one of the original towing bolts on the car. The towing eyes are not designed to take that amount of stress. They also use an electronic brake system. How would you explain that to the cops abroad. If they dont understand how they work, they could fine you. What you need is a system like Cat A Tow or Chris Cox use, at least the cops can see and understand how the brakes work. I have a Car A Tow system fitted to my Smart and it works a treat, sturdy and secure. Not flimsy and light weight!!!
     
  8. 656

    656 Read Only Funster

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    Oops Duplicate post
     
  9. Xabia

    Xabia Funster

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    My A frame is in the garage of my house in Spain::Sad: not worth the aggro if you get stopped.

    Article in the local English paper a couple of weeks ago: chap stopped near Teruel, fined 500 euros but didn't have the cash with him. Guardia Civil impounded his driving licence, took him to cash machine to get the money, fine reduced to 250 euros for cash payment.
     
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  10. vwalan

    vwalan Funster

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    personally i think, in fact positively reckon cara tow and the cris cox system is illegal here . the electric system is definately one of the only ways to meet the braking requirements .
    i can see no reason for the electric system or an air system to be not covered under eu rules in spain. i can see that the conventional overrun hitch cant meet the rules .
     
  11. TheBig1

    TheBig1 Funster Life Member

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    Youre not wrong about the towing eye bolts not being suited to this. From experience, they are barely able to cope with recovery. We had one shear off in the hole whilst recovering a broken down car. I certainly would not rely on using them to fit an A frame for towing any distance.

    After ours broke I asked about with various mechanics and car dealers I know and they say its far more common than many people realise for them to break. The manufacturer only designed them for infrequent use and in a straight line at low speed. Recovery truck drivers normally wont use them for loading by winch either. A slight incline or bump in the road may be all it takes to seperate your car from the frame, so not safe

    Should anything happen whilst towing a car that causes injury to a third party, its not the manufacturer that will be hauled into court initially, it is you, the driver of a vehicle that has proven to be unsafe on the highway. A bit like a lorry shedding its load due to the driver not securing it properly or a strap snapping through wear and tear. :Eeek:
     
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  12. vwalan

    vwalan Funster

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    most road side fines in spain will get a 50%reduction if payed there and then. the spanish police dont normally tell you but it is very easy to read on the bit of paper they give you . there as been appeals for the offence of using an aframe if a tourist, and money etc in fines have been returned . trouble is most tourists arent prepared to appeal. using eu law and standing your ground at the time ,and making a good and proper fuss getting your reasons for going to appeal known at the time is the only way to use an aframe in spain. if you arent prepared to argue and go to court then dont use one.
     
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  13. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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    they may pay a fine but will they send a 'relief' driver to Spain for me..... Shirl doesnt drive and i would find it hard driving both the RV and the toad at the same time :Doh:
     
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  14. darklord

    darklord Read Only Funster

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    My contention is, and always has been, that they are illegal everywhere, its just that differing states chose which laws to enforce and which ones not to give too much prevalence to.
    We ran world famous buses in london, until we submitted a new design, then the EU stated they were illegal, in this country nobody bothers you sleeping in your van or lorry without a proper bunk or night heater, try doing it in Germany, other countries will soon be following spain I think.
    Its worth asking, if people had opted for trailers, would they be more available and cheaper by now?, its also worth noting, that i doubt whether any vehicle with a transmission handbrake could use an A frame anyway.
     
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  15. Billy23

    Billy23 Funster

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    It seems that we sometimes try to think of all sorts of reasons why an A frame will be or could be legal in Europe. Well I spend lots of time at my house in Spain and I think it would be almost impossible to convince a Spanish policeman in my area that it is legal......it ain't ...end of!! That's it try if you want and when you don't get a pull, that will go a long way to convince you that it's all ok, but it's not, you just got away with it that time.

    It has been do to death, but only because people try another angle.

    Right now I will find my beer :Smile:
     
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  16. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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    Brakes aren't the issue here Alan.....Spanish motoring law specifically forbids a motorised vehicle towing another motorised vehicle unless its on a trailer/flatbed truck
     
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  17. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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    agreed...trailer regs state if brakes are fitted (even under 750kg) they ALL must work...one brake on each wheel which is why an A frame brake works on the foot brake, not the hand brake.
     
  18. Geo

    Geo Trader - Funster

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    And untill spain excepts that a motorised vehicle attached by an A frame is "a trailer" as far as the UK is concerned it will stay that way
    The A frame is not illegal in Spain its what you do with it that seems to offend:Rofl1:
    Geo
     
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  19. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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    very true Geo, in the same way it was not illegal to own a CB radio in the 70's and 80's...but it was illegal to use it :Doh:
     
  20. vwalan

    vwalan Funster

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    pappa isee it as a brake issue as i believe most aframes sold in the uk dont meet braking regulations . some do.
    as for spain the spanish interiour minister says that if the system meets directives 70/156/eec or 94/20/ec it is permitted. so being able to meet uk regs on trailers is the point i,m making . most a frames dont incorporate a required correct braking system for the use of reverse . the electric system or air .or i have seen an hydraulic one .i believe meets the requirements . i dont use one in spain but if i wanted to i would . and be prepared to cause international up roar.
     
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