A-frames vs trailers again, sorry! (1 Viewer)

Charlie

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Honestly Charlie how could you doubt moi! Don't worry.... course I am!:censored: But don't forget the Mental bit:cautious:

Yes many use them here but can be a drama abroad especially in Spain where you can be fined. a trailer offers peace of mind, legal everywhere. A smart car can go on a tiny folding trailer. IF I wanted to take a car I think this is what i would do....

View attachment 85368
Allow me Ma Lud to make a submission.

The accused otherwise known as Charlie wishes to plead Not guilty to using his Aframe in Spain because your honour he not going to take it to Spain.

He does your honour intend to use one in the UK and France as there is no laws prohibiting the fine young man of exemplary previous character from doing so.
There rests the case for the defence.....
 

Judge Mental

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Allow me Ma Lud to make a submission.

The accused otherwise known as Charlie wishes to plead Not guilty to using his Aframe in Spain because your honour he not going to take it to Spain.

He does your honour intend to use one in the UK and France as there is no laws prohibiting the fine young man of exemplary previous character from doing so.
There rests the case for the defence.....

Where is my black cap! you are not considering the temptation of wanting to stray over the border into Espana! I think it will be kinder to dispatch you forthwith.

Charles you will be taken from this place, hung till nearly dead, taken down, dragged trough the streets and then quartered..May God have mercy on your soul. of course you can wait till you get to France and lose your headBroken Link Removed..the choice entirely yours dear boy!
 

Charlie

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Where is my black cap! you are not considering the temptation of wanting to stray over the border into Espana! I think it will be kinder to dispatch you forthwith.

Charles you will be taken from this place, hung till nearly dead, taken down, dragged trough the streets and then quartered..May God have mercy on your soul. of course you can wait till you get to France and lose your headBroken Link Removed..the choice entirely yours dear boy!


Perhaps I should just run and join MH Facts ? .............................................:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

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Judge Mental

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Perhaps I should just run and join MH Facts ? .............................................:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

Jeez...now that a high high risk strategy! :oops:

Charlie?........CHARLIE!..you still there Charlie!:D

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Last edited:

Charlie

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Tell that to the Guardia. :xlaugh:

But Gus Guardia is Spanish.... I've said time and time again I will not consider taking an A frame to Spain. France it seems is ok for now at least so is the UK.....

Gus can ask .. Have you had or used an A frame ? I haven't ! I haven't a blooming clue to be honest but I'm asking as I cant work out why you condemn them ?

If you have had a bad experience then that would explain.
 

PeteH

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Trailers:- Can be Single axle. Which must be capable of carrying the proposed loading. (see also caravans). Over 750kg MUST be braked, and capable of being reversed without exiting the cab to apply a reversing device or lock. (PLEASE don't post about how this affects "A" framing!!)

So, with a Smart weighing in at approx 800 to 900kg,if I remember from mine. You are looking at a gross of between 13 to 1500kg. Laden, which is what the structure, axle, wheels and tyres must be rated at.

That particular one intrigues me as it looks as if the Nose weight will be quite substantial despite the fact that the Smart engine is behind the rear wheels?, borderline at best I would think?, thinking about it further I wonder if it is a converted Boat Trailer?.

Pete

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Feb 22, 2008
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I cant hit the "like" button cos I'm over here hidden behind the wardrobe...............................................
But Gus Guardia is Spanish.... I've said time and time again I will not consider taking an A frame to Spain. France it seems is ok for now at least so is the UK.....

Gus can ask .. Have you had or used an A frame ? I haven't ! I haven't a blooming clue to be honest but I'm asking as I cant work out why you condemn them ?

If you have had a bad experience then that would explain.

If it helps, I can only speak for me.
For five years I had a Peugeot 107 with A Frame, also a new Brian James Micro max trailer.
I sold the trailer in the end as I always used the A frame in the UK, far more convenient and much safer with the car sitting on all four wheels instead of 18" off the road on a trailer.
I now have a Kia Rio 3 with A frame and RVi brake electronic brake unit.
Never a problem and imo the best way in the uk.
When we travel over the water we hire a car if needed .
 

Charlie

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If it helps, I can only speak for me.
For five years I had a Peugeot 107 with A Frame, also a new Brian James Micro max trailer.
I sold the trailer in the end as I always used the A frame in the UK, far more convenient and much safer with the car sitting on all four wheels instead of 18" off the road on a trailer.
I now have a Kia Rio 3 with A frame and RVi brake electronic brake unit.
Never a problem and imo the best way in the uk.
When we travel over the water we hire a car if needed .

Thanks...

I really will and do appreciate the views of those that have or have had on these devices... That is good bad or indifferent..

Just to sum up where we are... We do need to sort out transport. A three wheeled bike would do it but then we won't have coveted the weather. A wee car on an A frame would do it but we won't be able to use it in Spain. That said France and in the UK is where would use it anyway.

I / we don't want a trailer and no way would we consider a caravan.
 
Aug 18, 2014
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Gus can ask .. Have you had or used an A frame ? I haven't ! I haven't a blooming clue to be honest but I'm asking as I cant work out why you condemn them ?

If you have had a bad experience then that would explain.

Yes ,the original A frames used to recover disabled vehicles & attached & steering the front wheels. These;

I'd have no problem using one for what it is meant for .

The type that attach to the towing eye recovery point I wouldn't.
As an engineer the modifications required are only as good as who is doing them.
By fitting a second 'towing eye' or indeed, replacing the complete sub frame/ chassis rail with a modified one & as someone who dealt with Uk -Spanish regs & how they interact with EU rules, I cannot see how the Certificate of conformity of the towed vehicle is not rendered null & void due to not conforming. The modfied parts are probably 100% safe & acceptable but they are still attached to the original vehicle chassis members & providing strain & loadings in directions for which the vehicle has not been constructed & has never been tested.
Just look at it from an engineering point of view when some manufacturers try to claim that they are now " 2 axle ,4 wheel trailers" :xrofl: Sorry , even as a child building a wooden jigger ( wooden framed pram wheel cart ) the first thing you had was a steering front axle !

Another way of looking at it is if you wanted to buy a trailer & they wanted to sell you a twin axle one with a fixed axle near the rear & the front one relying on the wheels caster angle to self centre , you wouldn't be happy.:xsad:

To get back to the legality. Yes , technically they are in the UK but I would have thought that under EU rules, which take precedence over national laws unless the national law provides greater protection to the citizen, they aren't due to the need to modify for the second towing eye. They therefore have breached the CoC & a simple complaint to the EU would I expect, result in the Eu ordering the UK to ban them.
Just look at it like this
You have a car that has been modified to be a "toad " .You decide to move abroad & want to import your "toad" & put it on plates of the country you are moving to.
You hand over paperwork including the Certificate of Conformity ( CoC) but, being legal decent honest & truthful , explain about the "toad" modifications.
It would be thrown out immediately in all EU states ,including the UK, as the one requirement of the CoC is that the "vehicle shall not have been altered nor modifications done to the original specification "



Trailers:-

That particular one intrigues me as it looks as if the Nose weight will be quite substantial despite the fact that the Smart engine is behind the rear wheels?, borderline at best I would think?, thinking about it further I wonder if it is a converted Boat Trailer?.

Pete

I thought that straight away as well.
 
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So to sum up from somebody who doesn't care one way or the other.
An A frame in the UK falls into a grey area in law but is not "technically" illegal.
The tow car probably is illegal after alterations.
They will probably be made illegal in the UK sometime in the future.
Many people use A frames without a problem in the UK ,France and elsewhere.
Faced with all these facts I would do what I always do in these situations....."What the hell I like as I don't need to justify my decision to anybody but myself":)
 
Aug 6, 2013
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looking at the pic its braked,but only single axle,i remember from banger racing day's all the guys moaning because the law was changing that stopped them using 2 wheel trailers, normally an old caravan chassis to move their cars around.
If the trailer + load is over 750Kg (almost any car on a trailer will be well over) then the trailer must be braked. There's no requirement regarding number of axles on the trailer but if the trailer does have 2 axles then all 4 wheels must be braked.

EDIT: Should have read the entire thread - this has already been pointed out.

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Aug 6, 2013
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Yes ,the original A frames used to recover disabled vehicles & attached & steering the front wheels.
There are NO A frames that steer the front wheels. The one in the video certainly doesn't - it simply attaches to the lower suspension arms. It does at least attach to a part that already exists on most cars (ie it doesn't need mods to the car) but it isn't braked and it still does not steer the front wheels of the car.
 

GWAYGWAY

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A friend who goes to France often, with his MH told me to go to a big Supermarket and hire a pop-pop car ( I do not know what they are called) for a small amount and then go into town causing mayhem at 20mph. He told me they are dead cheap to hire and do not need a licence produced.
 

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