'A' Frames in Spain a Little More Information

Discussion in 'Continental Touring' started by MicknPat, Oct 8, 2009.

  1. MicknPat

    MicknPat Funster

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    Rather than add a further posting to the 6 page thread, Have YOU been stopped using YOUR A Frame see link below

    http://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/continental-touring/9935-have-you-been-stopped-using-your-frame.html

    I thought I would add the following information from a Google search.

    Now finding the above which I'm sure you will agree contains a lot of useful information was easy.

    The difficult bit if you want a bit of a challenge is to type those EU Directives into Google and try and make a little sense of what you find :Eeek:

    If you do copy EU Directives 70/156/CEE and 94/20/CEE into Google the first reply will be

    Enterprise - Automotive Industry - List of Directives on Motor vehicles

    GOOD LUCK:thumb:

    mick
     
  2. vwalan

    vwalan Funster

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    not sure of the point here. i google either and get the dates of the directices and the directives .so what. the information isnt new . the directives were ammended in 1970 and 1994 .it quite plainly says that europe must harmonise the coupling system through out europe .it has 50mm ball. or 50mm pin (artic) the use of an aframe is is to convert a car into a trailer. it does that. just like the aframe on a caravan. the problem then moves to the brakes and we all know that trailers have to have brakes that allow you to reverse. what is the point of the post it tells me only what i already know and everybody else that follows the aframe debate.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2009
  3. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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    i agree with mick.

    a trailer serves one purpose and one purpose only......to transport goods whether personal or commercial.

    if a car could become a true trailer then it would not need an MOT, Tax or insurance.
    a trailer doesnt need 'em so why should a toad.

    it becomes a motor vehicle being towed by a motor vehicle.

    we all want to interpret the rules to our advantage but our interpretation isnt neccesarily the right one.

    just my slant on it.:thumb:

    And, after all, this is spain we're talking about....not the uk.
     
  4. vwalan

    vwalan Funster

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    there is confusion with the meanings of this directive as in spain towing a car on a rope or chan ,pole is banned as it does not meet the directives . when you tow a trailer it is allowed. a towd is a trailer constucted by the the fixing of an aframe to a car .we may know and thinkits a car,but it isnt. just like the old mini van into a traler that we have all seen in the past.
     
  5. vwalan

    vwalan Funster

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    i think there is a good case to argue in couft tat a towd does not havegto be mot,tax orinsured seperately from the towing vehicle.when its atoad .the minute you removethe aframe it returns to a car .
     
  6. vwalan

    vwalan Funster

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    goods trailers weighing ove 1020kg unladen do need moting
     
  7. scotjimland

    scotjimland Funster Life Member

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    and Spanish plod makes his up as he goes along..

    they are more interested in where their next bottle of plonk is coming from.. not EU directives


    jim
     
  8. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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    a conventional trailer, ie...williams, James etc, upto 3500kg does not need an mot and they are goods trailers and are the max you can tow with a heavy car.

    myn 3500kg williams has an unladen weight of 650kg so unless its made of cast iron with solid wheels you aint going to find anything that can be towed on a C1 or B1 licence.

    anything weighing over 1020kg unladen is going to be a commercial goods trailer and wont apply to most motorhomers.
     
  9. lebesset

    lebesset Read Only Funster

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    I thought I had heard everything ...a vehicle stops being a vehicle because it is being towed !!
    by that logic a vehicle would stop being a vehicle because it is parked beside the road !
     
  10. vwalan

    vwalan Funster

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    its all abit academic really .a van becomes a camper when it meets the criteria . a motor home can be made from a converted builders pickup. like i say i dont make the rules . but try to obey them. i know that a living van over 3,500kg is not test excempt but lots get away with it. its a strange world we live in . any way a parked venicle could also be called an obstruction of the highway. if parked on it. its the convertion by fitting the aframe ,think about it. i know its daf. but so are the rules
    pappa yes you will find a trailer that needs moting and be c1+e licence .it can be b+e .remember ther is no weight limit on b+eonly the max train wt. b+e can be more than c1+e as there is a restriction 107 on c1+e.
     
  11. vwalan

    vwalan Funster

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    pappa where do you get that 3,5oo is the max you can tow behind a heavy car. you can tow more than that behinda motor car.have a look at definitions of vehicles in construction and use. thats where i get my info from.
     
  12. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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    different thing altogether alan,

    iv never seen a minivan trailer with the front end still attached.

    the engine and front end were always removed to make a box trailer.

    it had no means of self propulsion, could not be driven when unhitched and could not be classed as a car and couldnt be legally use today as the hitch download would by far exceed the car/towbar munufactures spec.
     
  13. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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    this is fun alan and could go on forever......:Wink:



    Vehicle Categories

    The main non - LGV (unified) licence categories are:

    Category A: Motor cycles (with or without a sidecar), including tricycles and mopeds.



    Category B: Motor vehicles with:
    • A maximum authorised mass (MAM) not over 3,500kg
    • A maximum of 8 seats (not including the driver's seat)
    Trailers being towed by vehicles in this category must either:
    • Be not more than 750kg MAM - making a maximum authorised Train Weight of 4,250kg
    • Have a MAM which does not: - exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle
    • Have a MAM which does not: - Have a train weight exceeding 3,500kg
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2009
  14. vwalan

    vwalan Funster

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    the instructions for the general direction of traffic.08/v-74 do refer to the directives but dont mention any referance to any british rules.its all in the stuff momo posted last year. we do have a statement from the dept of transport saying that they believe a car fitted with an aframe becomes an single unit and needs to meet the tecnical requirements of a trailer. this is available on ukmotorhomes.net.... so they tell me its a trailer atleast thats how i read it. i try to follow the rules notmake up new ones. cheers alan
    psi can never decide if any body told the guardia in spain that franco died in the 70,s perhaps one day they will wake up,
     
  15. kenspain

    kenspain Read Only Funster

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    I have tried now for a week to get an answer for some of you that are coming over towing an A frame and still no luck but on Saturday in Gandia I did see the police stop a Dutch Camper and it look like they were talking about the car and A frame. But as i said before they make the law up here as they go,
     
  16. vwalan

    vwalan Funster

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    hi pappa thats category b what about b+e
     
  17. vwalan

    vwalan Funster

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    hi ken .i dont come over with an aframe but if i did i would show the stuff momo posted and argue. i used to use an unbraked aframe even in spain but always n still do carried a card from my garage and would say i was on a recovery. also you can show the paper work from caratow about the return of fines a few years ago. have fun give em stick. alan.
     
  18. kenspain

    kenspain Read Only Funster

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    The best thing i think is that you have any Paper work to show them in Spanish it might help try not to up set them by laying down the law and waving papers at them they can be a--- holes when they get upset:Rofl1:
     
  19. vwalan

    vwalan Funster

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    i normally have the aframe stuff in several languages ,momo,s stuff i first give it to them in english then say sorry and give them the spanish. hopefully they realise i understand what it says. i did have occasion to use it afew times last winter .i even let one guardia have a copy for his boss.he was ok. only once was i told not to stay. i had been there a week. the secret is put all your chairs away when you see them coming. we shall see what happens this year, it changes some years better than others .i know one place where if i park on the outskirts they tell me to park outside the guardia houses right on the sea front .thats at playa de mamola near motril. who knows might be different this year. cheers alan.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2009
  20. tacr2man

    tacr2man Read Only Funster

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    I have always understood that under EU rules , what is legal in a member country has to be accepted in other member states , eg red and white projected load plates allowed in UK but not a UK promulgated item .
    Mind you a lot of people try to get round UK requirements for trailers eg brakes over 750 kg . If you are not legal in your home registration country you certainly are not in another member state.
     
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