'A' frames in Portugal?

Discussion in 'Continental Touring' started by Lumbago, Oct 15, 2011.

  1. Lumbago

    Lumbago Read Only Funster

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    Can anyone advise me if 'A' frames are legal ? / acceptable in Portugal? Also does anyone know when the new motorway tolls are being introduced in Portugal? I had heard that they had been delayed. Thanks.
     
  2. Larrynwin

    Larrynwin Funster

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    They are not legal in Spain and you need to travel through to get to Portugal , I would not chance it anywhere outside the UK :Smile:
     
  3. Snowbird

    Snowbird Funster Life Member

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    Ohhh Noooooooooo.:Eeek::Eeek::Eeek:
     
  4. scotjimland

    scotjimland Funster Life Member

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    :Rofl1::Rofl1::Rofl1::Rofl1::Rofl1:
     
  5. Diabalo

    Diabalo Funster

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    Who said A-Frames are not legal. :Wink:
     
  6. keith

    keith Funster

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    I'm not getting into that one. :Doh:

    The latest I heard from Lesley at The Chicken Run in Portugal is that they have not yet set up all the toll roads yet. :thumb:
     
  7. harryoxford2

    harryoxford2 Read Only Funster

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    my jam butty a frame hasnt been challenged yet....
     
  8. slobadoberbob

    slobadoberbob Read Only Funster

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    I say they are not legal

    I say they are not legal....

    There is definate law in Spain that means you can be fined... Bryan the administrator on this site was fined only a couple weeks ago with three other vehicles that had A frames.. As said to get to Portugal you need to go through Spain.

    While I stir the pot... A frames even used in the UK do not meet the Construction and Use regulations .. so are not legal on the UK roads.

    Bob:Eeek:
     
  9. slobadoberbob

    slobadoberbob Read Only Funster

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    Well take to spain and earn yourself a fine

    Yet is the word.. only a matter of time before someone over here is challanged. It has already bought fines in Germany, Belgium, Chzeck Republic and of course many case now in Spain.

    In the UK, A frames do not conform to the construction and use regulations.. Road Traffic Acts., .. It will be only a mtter of time so I have been informed by Vosa enforcement in Cardiff... It is clear they have monitored this site and the RVOC and have it on a todo list.. my spy says it will happen next year at one of the shows! but I hear that from someone in the middle and it may or may not be true.. but the source has been useful to me in the past over other issues.

    So Harry, your time may come...

    Me? I do not have a problem I use a trailer.. totally legal. I notice a lot of those running to spain in the near future are using trailers despite owning A frames to be on the safe side... the €80 fine is not the issue, it is if they seize the car, which they can do. If I am not wrong I think Bryan said in a post he had been stopped twice by Spanish police on his run South..

    Bob:cry:
     
  10. hilldweller

    hilldweller Funster Life Member

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    Harold Shipman got away with it for some time too.
     
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  11. vwalan

    vwalan Funster

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    h. i think some a frames do meet construction and use requirements . but many dont.
    i still say you can tow in spain as a visitor .
    but much better to get a 5er .no need totow a toad then .hee hee.
     
  12. slobadoberbob

    slobadoberbob Read Only Funster

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    Sorry Alan wrong

    Sorry to disagree Alan, but you are wrong. There was a post on here a while back by Mick / Pat who spend a lot of time in Spain.. just got back for his MOT.. he provided the law from letters from the Spanish Ambassadore to the UK after his MEP had taken the issue up. The letter clearly showed the law and when it came in to force.

    UK law does not transpose it's self in to Spanish law any more than Spannish law does in to British law. Local regulations have to be complied with.. Other wise for example why would a overseas lorry have to pay say for the emission control fees that TFL impose.. they do not have them in Europe? .. a case of local law. So sorry mate you are wrong on this one.

    Wish I could dig the post up as it was very informative and helpful and a good bit of info for those that wish to risk it.. plus Byans posts ..our administrators post re his double stop in Spain recently and his fine.

    Bob:thumb:
     
  13. vwalan

    vwalan Funster

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    i read the post but if its ok here then it is there. the spanish interiour ministers letter from awhile ago says so as well .but not in so many words. there as been fines refunded .
    as to here aframes can meet construction and use . its just most dont.
    have used aframes for years but cant understand why so many need to use them.
    i say they bought the wrong type of vehicle in the first place.
     
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  14. hilldweller

    hilldweller Funster Life Member

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    People rarely sit down and analyse their requirements in depth, for one thing they start with zero knowledge. Just like us. We drove around, we cursed caravans we see motorhomes and jump to the conclusion "Motorhome is what we need".

    Buy MH, "yes we were right, MH good". THEN we find we can't get to the shops/sights and it all goes pear shaped, instead of questioning "MH good" we add to MH, hence the toad/trailers.

    We were well into MH before we even heard of a fiver.

    You with years of experience, have seen the bigger picture.

    So, yes, I agree with you, many MH owners are in the wrong vehicle, a caravan or near identical fiver is their better solution. In my humble opinion, it all hinges on time on one pitch, anything over a week and a caravan is the better solution for most.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2011
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  15. slobadoberbob

    slobadoberbob Read Only Funster

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    Yes have it in a nut shell


    Brian you have it in a nut shell.. fe do proper research. they see a MH or an RV and it is a case .. I want one.. find. But the research would throw up some of the issues that may come about. Like carrying bike's or scooters. The issue of cars then arise.

    Alan mentions 5ivers.. or fifth wheel units. Most do not have the ability to carry anything like a car.. bikes may be, a car no way. Then there is the issue of licences yet again.

    I, like many have years of experience and have looked at the from different way..often having to U turn on the way. The issue is a real problem if you are disabled. After 20 plus years we have now worked around all the options we think. But that is for another post.

    Bob:thumb:
     
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  16. Snowbird

    Snowbird Funster Life Member

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    At risk of going slightly off thread here. I agree with Brian on some points and Alan on others. Have had American RVs for years and had Aframes and trailers.
    In the last couple of years have come to the conclusion that small is beautiful.
    The smaller motorhome you can manage with the better. If the MH is small enough you don't need a toad, you use the MH. Lets face facts,what do you require from your MH?. Most of us only need a bed and somewhere to cook and a toilet. Have found that as long as you have a comfortable bed and the basics your on a winner. What is the point of lugging a 30ft plus 5er around when touring? or a 30ft American with a trailer dangling on the back for that matter.
    Most of us cook outside,BBQ etc, we do our lounging outside also. That's the whole idea of camping,which I think many have lost,I for one for many years.
    If all you want to do is sit in your 30ft plus camper,5er, why not buy a static or an apartment. Am sorry but I don't see the sense in a huge camper any more. I was always of the opinion that I needed the most room possible but have completely changed my mind on that one. The smaller camper is so much more practical for what ALL campers were originally designed for...and that was CAMPING and TOURING. Not driving from home to wherever,parking up,chewing the fat with your mates then driving home again. If that's all you want a camper for why not book a hotel for the weekend.
     
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  17. slobadoberbob

    slobadoberbob Read Only Funster

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    You make some very good points


    While everyone will have different needs, you make a very good point.


    Bob
     
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  18. vwalan

    vwalan Funster

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    can i ask why i would want to carry a car in my 5er?
    i have a 7 seater unit as small big as a normal size van.
    its about getting the right outfit. i was brought up on bedfords vw ,s etc . had vw,s for years then vwlt,s ,then buses then a 13ton dodge 100 series . i realized what i needed was what i got . a 20ft living space and a vehicle small enough to use as a car.
    i carry monkey bikes in the back for use now as a secondary transport .
    its about getting the right unit . i must say my mitsubishi or the isuzu small trucs are only just slightly wider than a vw . no bonnet as you sit on the engine makes it a very compact unit.
    i find the longer 5ers waste so much space. find 20ft ideal .gets almost anywhere.
    in life we do have to think hard what we are doing. i use mine as a car here saves another tax insurance etc. can be suitable for c1+e or with a slight adaption will be ok for b+e.then would suit over 70,s.that can be another thought for folk at 70 you could easily lose the c1+e.
    oh well all food for thought ,have fun .
     
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  19. normanandsue

    normanandsue Funster

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    Also does anyone know when the new motorway tolls are being introduced in Portugal? I had heard that they had been delayed. Thanks.[/QUOTE]

    Can't enter the discussion about A frames but can help regarding tolls. I have just returned from Portugal and the tolls on the A22 in the Algarve started this week to coincide with the Portugal golf open.
    According to the taxi driver they are a fixed amount regardless of the distance you travel They operate like the London congestion charge (VNR)so you will have to buy a card (from where I do not know) or like the congestion charge face a fixed penalty. And no I don't know how they will enforce this for foreign drivers, but I wouldn't chance it.

    Norman
     
  20. vwalan

    vwalan Funster

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    thy can enforce it with our courts. theycan now transfer motoring offences to the country your vehicle is registered in . started last year i believe.
    i can say spain traced one of my vehicles with a denunciation in 2001 only hjad my reg no. luckily in the paperwork tnhey made my reg number wrong so i got away with it . takes some believing traced through it then authority gets it wrong. they might get it roght one day. ha ha ,
     
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