A bit more wiring (1 Viewer)

[funflair]

Following on from the Battery Master fitting I had another little job on the go as well. We were away at the weekend and the fridge and heating were not working on 240v although the battery charger was and the sockets in the bedroom were, on our van the circuits are split so I went straight to the 240v trip and distribution box and pulled a couple of plugs out and one of the was a little bit brown were it had got too hot so I had a closer look (it was in one piece before I broke it)

OK so this is the plug with the terminal PINS in it.

AND this is the socket SPOT THE MISTAKE yes its got pins as well? I will add this is not N+B wiring as somebody fitted an inverter years ago before we bought the van, so its done pretty well to work this long.

So I have the spare plug and the correct terminal tubes now but need to find somebody who can do the special crimp.

New tube (female) connector on the left and the old (male) pin on the right showing that the crimp is not just an old pair of pliers job.

Martin

EDIT hopefully the job wasn't done by a professional electrician.

 

[autorouter]

So I have the spare plug and the correct terminal tubes now but need to find somebody who can do the special crimp.

The standard crimp pliers for UNinsulated terminals work fine for these connectors (NOT the pliers for the red/blue/yellow insulated terminals). These are AMP Mate'n'Lock connectors and you can buy special crimp pliers if you want, but for half a dozen crimps it's not really worth it.

I'm sure you've noticed the plastic bits only fit together one way round, so make sure you double-check the terminal goes in the correct hole. The barbs make the terminals difficult to remove unless you have the correct tool, or maybe a couple of fine screwdrivers.

 

[funflair]

The standard crimp pliers for UNinsulated terminals work fine for these connectors (NOT the pliers for the red/blue/yellow insulated terminals). These are AMP Mate'n'Lock connectors and you can buy special crimp pliers if you want, but for half a dozen crimps it's not really worth it.

I'm sure you've noticed the plastic bits only fit together one way round, so make sure you double-check the terminal goes in the correct hole. The barbs make the terminals difficult to remove unless you have the correct tool, or maybe a couple of fine screwdrivers.

Thanks for that, I have right plug and tube connectors now and going to see a mate on Monday who has a workshop full of tools (hopefully).

Martin

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[Jaws]

It is poxy crimp joins that cause 90% of problems.
Forget relying on crimping .. Crimp the pin lightly in place with a pair of pliers and then SOLDER it up.
Proper job and one that will not fold up on you .. eventually it will fail when the solder breaks down .. say 80 to 150 years ..

 

[tonyidle]

No - stick to crimping. Soldering hardens the copper unless you are skilled and melts the insulation regardless. A decent crimp tool isn't too expensive. I have never seen a correctly-done crimp fail (I don't include those offensive red, blue, & yellow things that were never intended for automotive use) but I've seen some pretty duff soldering.

One of these:

Broken Link Removed

or one of these:

Broken Link Removed

will do an excellent job.

 

[funflair]

It is poxy crimp joins that cause 90% of problems.
Forget relying on crimping .. Crimp the pin lightly in place with a pair of pliers and then SOLDER it up.
Proper job and one that will not fold up on you .. eventually it will fail when the solder breaks down .. say 80 to 150 years ..

But it wasn't the crimps that let this down it was the silly a--e that tried to plug a male into a male, and that ain't supposed to go.

Martin

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[hilldweller]

it was the silly a--e that tried to plug a male into a male, and that ain't supposed to go.
Martin

Now now now. This is 2016 and now, if consenting, is perfectly acceptable.

 

[funflair]

No - stick to crimping. Soldering hardens the copper unless you are skilled and melts the insulation regardless. A decent crimp tool isn't too expensive. I have never seen a correctly-done crimp fail (I don't include those offensive red, blue, & yellow things that were never intended for automotive use) but I've seen some pretty duff soldering.

One of these:

Broken Link Removed

or one of these:

Broken Link Removed

will do an excellent job.

Thanks if my mate doesn't have the tool I will follow your link I want it right as its 240volt 13amp.

Martin

 

[funflair]

Now now now. This is 2016 and now, if consenting, is perfectly acceptable.

Mains wiring Brian

Martin

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[hilldweller]

as its 240volt 13amp.
Martin

Those are crappy nasty cheap crimps, are they really rated at 13A ?

You have to see gold plated quality ones to appreciate how nasty they are. Particularly so in the UK's damp atmosphere. I would always squirt with contact oil or ACF50 when assembling to fight damp.

An example ( which you can't use unfortunately ).
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/circular-connector-contacts/0485855/
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/circular-connector-contacts/3432056/

 

[funflair]

Those are crappy nasty cheap crimps, are they really rated at 13A ?

You have to see gold plated quality ones to appreciate how nasty they are. Particularly so in the UK's damp atmosphere. I would always squirt with contact oil or ACF50 when assembling to fight damp.

An example ( which you can't use unfortunately ).
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/circular-connector-contacts/0485855/
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/circular-connector-contacts/3432056/

CBE mains unit 13 or 16 amps would have been fine if someone hadn't fiddled,

Damp, they get too hot to get damp

Martin

 

[JeanLuc]

According to the Molex MNL catalogue, their connector system is rated up to 600V (ac or dc) and up to 13.5 amps.
The Elektrobloc in my Hymer uses the same connector system and when I had to rewire a plug last year (with pins and a new plug supplied by Schaudt) I was able to effect a satisfactory crimp using a standard (cheap) crimping tool as supplied with a 12v connector kit from Halfords. As an earlier poster said, use the crimp part that has a semicircular cut-out opposite a central protrusion, not the double semi-circle crimp that is designed for covered connectors.

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[funflair]

Well all crimped back on, and to be fair I am quite happy with the job. Being a tight a----d (and proud of it Yorkshireman) I didn't buy the proper tool I made a punch and die out of an old bolt with a slot cup in and a big nail, I used a dremel to shape the end of the nail so that it turned the tangs over as they punched down into the slot in the bolt, and then after the "photo shoot" I put a little blob of solder at the end as well but not enough to wick up the wires or long enough to melt the insulation.

Putting it all back together tomorrow.

Martin

 

[WSandME]

I have done some additional wiring to my Electrobloc using the Amp pins. A tip for removing the latching (barbed) pins is to cut a soft drinks can up to make a rectangle of the very thin aluminium and roll it around a thin rod, thinner than the Amp pin ( I used a darning needle IIRC). After you've rolled it, it will relax as you remove it from the rod - aim to get a diameter equal to the Amp pin. Pushing this tube along the pin will release the barbs.

 

[pappajohn]

Look inside the 13a plug of most appliances and you'll find crimped furrels on the ends of the wires.
Nowt wrong with crimps if done correctly.

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[dpsuk999]

Well all crimped back on, and to be fair I am quite happy with the job. Being a tight a----d (and proud of it Yorkshireman) I didn't buy the proper tool I made a punch and die out of an old bolt with a slot cup in and a big nail, I used a dremel to shape the end of the nail so that it turned the tangs over as they punched down into the slot in the bolt, and then after the "photo shoot" I put a little blob of solder at the end as well but not enough to wick up the wires or long enough to melt the insulation.

View attachment 137304

Putting it all back together tomorrow.

Martin

How about a picture of your home made tools incase fellow funsters need to make one

 

[funflair]

How about a picture of your home made tools incase fellow funsters need to make one

Thanks for asking but it not very pretty.

But that it, bolt in the vice and tap the nail/punch with a hammer.

That little bit of shape to the end of the nail is key to it turning the crimp tangs down, its also worth remembering that the slot for the crimp to sit in is about 3mm diameter, and i need new glasses in fact I can see things in these photos that I couldn't see when I was doing it

Martin

 

[dpsuk999]

Thanks

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[hilldweller]

I made a punch and die out of an old bolt with a slot cup in and a big nail, I used a dremel to shape the end of the nail so that it turned the tangs
Martin

Impressed hilldweller doffs cap to you.

 

[hilldweller]

Nowt wrong with crimps if done correctly.

Soldering is an absolute no no in aviation. BAe uses gold plated crips at something like £3 each.

 

[Jaws]

Soldering is an absolute no no in aviation. BAe uses gold plated crips at something like £3 each.

Yup.. I was really surprised to find this when Darrells 3 month old Icarus C42 started having electrical problems..
Found a fair few of the crimps were causing problems..
When I mentioned solder all around looked daggers at me !

But for me, in an automotive environment, I will stick to solder

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[hilldweller]

Found a fair few of the crimps were causing problems..
When I mentioned solder all around looked daggers at me !
But for me, in an automotive environment, I will stick to solder

My comments come from my daughter, who was sponsored by BAe through Uni but first had to do a years apprenticeship on the factory floor. She brought home some of the crimps she made.

Mt own experience is that and soldered joint IF NOT TOTALLY VIBRATION FREE fails quite quickly. So if ever made soldered joints on machine tools or vehicles I always supported the joint way pas where the solder has hardened the wire.

As you know, copper work hardens if heated then slowly cooled, just the opposite of ferrous.

 

[daveandsan]

Thanks for asking but it not very pretty.

But that it, bolt in the vice and tap the nail/punch with a hammer.
View attachment 137384

That little bit of shape to the end of the nail is key to it turning the crimp tangs down, its also worth remembering that the slot for the crimp to sit in is about 3mm diameter, and i need new glasses in fact I can see things in these photos that I couldn't see when I was doing it

View attachment 137383

Martin

@funflair
I hope you are going to harden and temper that punch Martin

 

[funflair]

@funflair
I hope you are going to harden and temper that punch Martin

If I wanted it to last any more than 3 crimps it might need it, but hopefully I dont need it again

And If I do I wont be able to find it.

Martin

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