A BIT MORE TORQUE

Discussion in 'Motorhome Chat' started by sally47, Nov 20, 2015.

  1. sally47

    sally47 Funster

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    Bought one of those little black boxes from p/borough show last year plugs in the ECU unit for three hundred pounds and really has worked as only have five spead box made big difference but now wondering if it will damage anything long term anyone else have one it's suppose to enhance the turbo anyway would be grateful any advice or should I go for a remap what are the pros and cons please
     
  2. Jaws

    Jaws Funster Life Member

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    Need a bit more info really.
    What one did you buy ( or who from ? ).. There is one that does little and a few that are adjustable.. But I have not seen one that plugs in to an ecu as yet
     
  3. Charlie

    Charlie Funster

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    There are two types of tuning / altering the existing ECU maps.

    1 is to have the new map flashed (overwritten) onto the existing ECU. the other is to use one of the fairly common "piggy back" boxes often called black boxes. Some ECUs like for instance the Denso ones found on Toyotas cannot be overwritten so only a piggy back kit will alter the existing ECU and its parameters.

    You are spot on ! The make and quality of the kit is all important. They can be fantastic or they can be absolute rubbish.
     
  4. sally47

    sally47 Funster

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    The one I have is I assume the piggy back one bought from torquing diesel tuning modules if that's any help
     
  5. Charlie

    Charlie Funster

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    This supplier ?
    http://www.torquingdiesel.co.uk/
     
  6. GWAYGWAY

    GWAYGWAY Funster

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    I notice that NEW ford Transits in Chausson and Roller team have a choice of power outputs 125 and 155 bhp. the extra being £800 for the more power. There is more than a chip involved probably a variable vane turbo and bigger injectors to match the upgrade in the ECU.
    The same with Fiesta and focus, same 1600 engine but 90 bhp and 122. differences in injectors and turbo If these are available at the Ford factory why do the manufacturers even offer the weaker engine is it to justify the optional extra price? The smaller ouput engine is a bit of a slug compared to the other.
     
  7. Jaws

    Jaws Funster Life Member

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    That is not an ECU piggy back unit.. All that does is alter the signal to the injectors and nowt else.. It is actually plugged in to the line that controls said injectors Charlie :)
     
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  8. DanielFord

    DanielFord Funster

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    I am always suspicious of remapping products, that said, on my car I do have a modified map. Those who own a Vauxhall will be aware that there is a 'sport' button on the dash. This effectively means that the car can run two maps. In standard Vauxhall spec (on my VXR), this means that you can select from moderately undriveable to totally undriveable (or you can turn off the traction control, which will put you in a ditch). Now I can select the standard map, or the sport map, which delivers a much smoother delivery of power, without the flat spots that Vauxhall provide.
    I paid quite a lot to have that mod done, so I think the answer is, as others have said, the quality of the product is important.
     
  9. funflair

    funflair Funster Life Member

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    Hi @sally47

    Before we get into an argument, sorry general discussion on the relative merits of said tuning boxes and re-maps in general it might be helpful to tell us what the base vehicle is and how heavy the whole motorhome is.

    What if any potential damage it could/might do will depend on how much extra power you have and what you do with that power, if it just runs a tad better and a touch more torque/power and you are not thrashing the living day lights out of it then I would say it won't hurt. If on he other hand it is a small engine under a big heavy motorhome towing a car up hill and down dale and you have a lot more power and a heavy right foot then the potential for something to give is certainly higher.

    We have a Remap on our 3 litre IVECO and it runs smoother, yes there is more torque and power but I don't thrash it or tow a car so I am not worried about a bit extra grunt, mpg is certainly no worse, possibly a tad better.

    Martin
     
  10. Charlie

    Charlie Funster

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    Mate I know exactly where they are plugged into. Usually the fuel rail and boost control loom. The term piggy back means it's an addition to the existing ECU and not a flash remap of the ECU..

    The thing is these .... Let's call them black boxes can consist of s few resistors that increase turbo boost and nothing else. There are many parameters controlled by a full on and quality tuning set up.

    The best by far are those set up on a rolling food where every parameter can be set up individually to suit the individual engine in the vehicle being tuned. This of course costs but the end user gets a full custom mapped engine not an off the shelf generic map.

    It goes without saying a vehicles engine and transmission plus clutch etc etc must be in good order as extra power and Tourque will find any deficiencies...
     
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  11. Sundowners

    Sundowners Funster Life Member

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    Just be aware that if you do this to a new vehicle your warranty may not cover you if something goes wrong. A Fun member had this happen on a new Mercedes whilst in France, believe it cost him £10,000 for a new engine replacement in France.
     
  12. Jaws

    Jaws Funster Life Member

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    Yup Agree with much of what you say Charlie.. But I have ( somewhere ) a couple of piggy back ECU's.. They plug in to the Loom between the ECU and the vehicle. The other gadgets are, as you rightly say just a box of resistors in the main
    Mind you, I have a Torquing of Diesel box on my van.. It was originally on the Miller and I moved it over to the Autotrail
    Of course, me being nosy, the first thing I did was to take it apart.
    Two TTL chips, a timer and an op amp fitted. Still aint worth £220 in parts ( in fact a VERY quick work out comes to about £14 + a posh box ) or what ever they are but a bit more than a few variable resistors that as you rightly say, are in some of the box's .. And Mine does help with economy merely by saving me gear chasing all the time

    Again I cannot but agree with your sentiments as far as a rolling road set up goes
    Simply cannot be beaten
     
  13. Tony drake

    Tony drake Read Only Funster

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    There are ways around leaving a file on a vehicle, I mapped a new shape transit Motorhome this week. I can unlock the ecu from being locked out. I then supply the customer a hand held device so he can then return his MH to standard at anytime if it needs to go back to the dealer. Once he has it back he can put the re map back on with his tool. Takes about 10 mins to switch the map on and off once the ecu is unlocked. The ecu does have to come out first to perform the unlocking though.
     
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  14. sally47

    sally47 Funster

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    Thanks for all your help main factor as fun flair States weight of vehicle with my 130bhp engine on a tag axle chieftain weighing some 4 1/2 tons damage will occur in the wrong hands (or feet) I bought the box basically to save changing gear as its only a five speed and this it has done what started my concern was the red warning light comes on more often now obout 1800revs coinciding with fitting a great big TOP BOX now realised the drag is putting more pressure on the engine so if anyone is in the market for nearly new fiama box let me know
     
  15. funflair

    funflair Funster Life Member

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    I would want to know what the Red warning light was warning me off before dismissing it.

    Martin
     
  16. buttons

    buttons Funster

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    It will be costing VW a whole lot more for using similar technology on their vehicles. Do these black boxes change your emissions in any way from the factory stated.:censored:
     
  17. sally47

    sally47 Funster

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    Hi fun flair yes the light is the injection system failure light it does say occasional and brief lighting is meaningless when it does come on I just ease up on the throttle as said I am assuming the drag on the top box is putting more pressure on the engine
     
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  18. Lofty1

    Lofty1 Funster

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    Simply yes they effect the fuel air mixture ,in theory it should improve emissions on test but in use they are probably worse.
     
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  19. Charlie

    Charlie Funster

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    Agree. Our van is just two years old now and I wont fit anything until the warranty period expires.

    Modern ECUs record a trace on them so removing these easily removable devices can be sussed if the garage looks hard enough. Our code reading devices no matter how sophisticated and my one is top notch wont pick that trace up but a main dealers very sophisticated computer will.. If they look hard enough of course !
     
  20. Charlie

    Charlie Funster

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    Bluefin ? As above it is possible for the dealer to find a trace on the ECU. Basically the ECU has been altered and it can and will record these events... ECUs on some vehicles can actually record the driving events or at least the very recent driving events of the vehicle. Toyota had a claim lodged against them where an owner had a shunt and blamed Toyota saying the brakes had failed. Toyota had the ECU examined and it was found No brake input had been recorded immediately prior to the shunt. Case thrown out. The modern ECU is a sophisticated bit of kit.

    I will find the case I quote above if you like ?

    Not looking to be dissageable but people should know exactly what they are getting into..
     
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