999 calls.. (1 Viewer)

[tonyidle]

This is not to defend the ambulance /paramedics but as soon as you got to the point about being at A and E and there were crews chatting.
I do remember recently that, whilst at hospital, I noticed a couple of crews around and I was told that because of procedures and H and E, a lot of patients who are brought in by ambulance, then the crew that brings them in has to stay till they are admitted or discharged. Apparently, long gone are the days when there was a patient brought in, dropped off etc and the crew going out for another emergency. That's one if the reasons patients brought in by ambulance are priority but personally a waste of valuable time and resources but not the ambulance staff fault. Course, at that time it could also have been shift change or break period but on arrival to hospital, the system was also quieter for the need of ambulances. I don't suppose anyone would approach an ambulance person and say that 999 say you're very busy but there are X number of crews here? I wouldn't but some people would.

My paramedic daughter can flesh out that statement: because A&E is understaffed / busy they quite regularly cannot make anyone available to accept the incoming patient. The ambulance crew remain responsible for their patient and his/her welfare until the handover can take place - at times for up to an hour. Meanwhile the ambulance and crew are unable to accept any calls. In South Cumbria there are a small number of ambulances and there are times when they are all parked at A&E awaiting patient handover. Any cover for South Lakeland then has to come from the North of the County - 50 to 75 miles away from our 'local' A&E. Which is in Lancaster. Unless the patient needing A&E is a heart attack case in which case it is at Blackpool - a further 30 miles away.

 

[Jaws]

I think it's the modern way of the emergency services attempts to save money but failing.

Not the case,, Close but not right..

I think it's the modern way of the emergency services attempts to save money BY failing.

As demonstrated by Andy, folk just give up and make their own arrangements to get patients to hospital.

 

[Puddleduck]

Thank you Andy. That could have been my Dad - but luckily wasn't.

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[Puddleduck]

My paramedic daughter can flesh out that statement: because A&E is understaffed / busy they quite regularly cannot make anyone available to accept the incoming patient. The ambulance crew remain responsible for their patient and his/her welfare until the handover can take place - at times for up to an hour. Meanwhile the ambulance and crew are unable to accept any calls. In South Cumbria there are a small number of ambulances and there are times when they are all parked at A&E awaiting patient handover. Any cover for South Lakeland then has to come from the North of the County - 50 to 75 miles away from our 'local' A&E. Which is in Lancaster. Unless the patient needing A&E is a heart attack case in which case it is at Blackpool - a further 30 miles away.

(sorry for the double post)

My son is a senior staff member in a busy A&E department. There was something on the news about no ambulances being available because they were at the A&E doors and were unable to unload the patients who were already on board.

His take on this was that the patients in the ambulances were getting care and the alternative was leaving them on a trolley within A&E without much (if any attention). A&E was already full, the staff were making mistakes because of the pressure and the beds elsewhere in the hospital were just not available, so he thought patients in ambulances at the door was the only way to cope. I can see his point of view even if I am very uncomfortable with it but what is the alternative?

 

[Puddleduck]

She would always make a point in telling the caller, after establishing that she was dealing with a genuine call, that an ambulance had been dispatched already, and then go through the questions. The answers of those questions are forwarded to the crew who are responding.
A lot of call handlers forget, they might handle thousands of 999 calls each day, the person on the other end of the phone may never have called 999!

When Martin collapsed the lady handling the call told me that an ambulance was already on the way before she went through the rest of the questions and advice. She (and the ambulance crew when they arrived) were brilliant. The next door neighbours who came to find out what was going on whilst the ambulance was in the drive were less than helpful.

 

[Chris]

Yes vic ... I've heard similar points been made... and I believe calls are well down from years back..
As you say alarms at any building would have prompted a predetermined initial attendance of various appliances... not now..
They may be happy with a phone call from the occupants stating it was just a false alarm and not attend with anything..
That's fine for a young lad joining today... it's the norm..
It wasn't for me... it would have been my responsibility to do those checks and confirm the alarms were in fact false...
Times change..and I put up with lots of it but eventually you become disinchanted... and things that seem important to you because that's how you were brough up are no longer...
At that point you become like a dinosaur...time to go... which is what I did
Andy..

That's exactly how I feel about my line of work

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[andy63]

That's exactly how I feel about my line of work

Think it's everyone at our time of life Chris. .. your very fortunate now if you can enjoy work right up to retirement. . there is constant change in every workplace and a lot of it appears unnecessary. . I was lucky to be able to retire early..
Andy

 

[tonyidle]

(sorry for the double post)

My son is a senior staff member in a busy A&E department. There was something on the news about no ambulances being available because they were at the A&E doors and were unable to unload the patients who were already on board.

His take on this was that the patients in the ambulances were getting care and the alternative was leaving them on a trolley within A&E without much (if any attention). A&E was already full, the staff were making mistakes because of the pressure and the beds elsewhere in the hospital were just not available, so he thought patients in ambulances at the door was the only way to cope. I can see his point of view even if I am very uncomfortable with it but what is the alternative?

So can I and I don't know. What I posted wasn't intended to place blame with either the A&E or the Ambulance Service. I was answering a point made about Ambulance crews seen hanging around A&E and trying to explain why it happens and the knock-on effect on anyone who might need an Ambulance urgently.

 

[Sandancers]

Think it's everyone at our time of life Chris. .. your very fortunate now if you can enjoy work right up to retirement. . there is constant change in every workplace and a lot of it appears unnecessary.

Oh so true !!!! Over the last couple of years at work we have all become so disillusioned, that we just do as the "work planner" (a young girl of 20 who knows nothing of our actual job) says. I will often wave at a colleague heading north as I head south both to do the same job. But hey ho, apparently that's more efficient than going to a job near home !!

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[Chris]

Think it's everyone at our time of life Chris. .. your very fortunate now if you can enjoy work right up to retirement. . there is constant change in every workplace and a lot of it appears unnecessary. . I was lucky to be able to retire early..
Andy

I don't get much enjoyment Andy.

I enjoy getting a result for someone or making someone happy , but the overall job has been caught up by various rule changes, regulatory requirements and shite that I just want to walk away.

I can't yet and that's the catch

 

[jessthedog]

At the time both the Police and the Fire Service could have made such a call but the Ambulance Service has always been the "poor cousin" of the Emergency Services, underfunded and understaffed.

Well done to Andy for treating the couple with dignity and compassion, but times have changed.
As Maison as intimated the Ambulance service being part of the NHS has always been the poor cousin of the emergency services and seriously under funded.
The Police service is now following suit. Margaret Thatcher love her or hate her, made sure that the police service were adequately funded so she could fight anyone in her path, but since her the funding and police service has been cut.

I served 32 years in the London Fire service and it was the most expedient service, maybe in the world. If you made a call to the service in central London, we would have 2 fire engines there within 5 mins and a 3rd within 8 mins.

This service was far better than where I lived, which had a up to 20 min attendance.

There were a high percentage of calls that were false alarms/fire alarms actuating etc. The fire service because of education/building control and technology have seen genuine calls diminished, but genuine fire calls or traffic accidents etc. need immediate attendance. The fire service with the cuts happening will go the same way as the other 2 emergency services and people will see a serious reduction in the service.

The ambulance service, like the general A&E service have seen an unprecedented number of calls. The control staff need to make an assessment, like a triage, to see if the patient needs an ambulance immediately. Its because they haven't got the resources to just send a vehicle.

People will have to make a hard decision, do they wait for an Ambulance or do they just make there own way to the hospital, and then wait in A&E?

I'm afraid its a sign of the times.

But we need the Andy's of this world to help out when the shyte hits the fan.

 

[EX51SSS]

Well done to Andy for treating the couple with dignity and compassion, but times have changed.
As Maison as intimated the Ambulance service being part of the NHS has always been the poor cousin of the emergency services and seriously under funded.
The Police service is now following suit. Margaret Thatcher love her or hate her, made sure that the police service were adequately funded so she could fight anyone in her path, but since her the funding and police service has been cut.

I served 32 years in the London Fire service and it was the most expedient service, maybe in the world. If you made a call to the service in central London, we would have 2 fire engines there within 5 mins and a 3rd within 8 mins.

This service was far better than where I lived, which had a up to 20 min attendance.

There were a high percentage of calls that were false alarms/fire alarms actuating etc. The fire service because of education/building control and technology have seen genuine calls diminished, but genuine fire calls or traffic accidents etc. need immediate attendance. The fire service with the cuts happening will go the same way as the other 2 emergency services and people will see a serious reduction in the service.

The ambulance service, like the general A&E service have seen an unprecedented number of calls. The control staff need to make an assessment, like a triage, to see if the patient needs an ambulance immediately. Its because they haven't got the resources to just send a vehicle.

People will have to make a hard decision, do they wait for an Ambulance or do they just make there own way to the hospital, and then wait in A&E?

I'm afraid its a sign of the times.

But we need the Andy's of this world to help out when the shyte hits the fan.

Sometimes it's not a hard decision. Sometimes only an ambulance will do. The choice may not be available. Not everyone can get to A and E through their own resources or time, it maybe their condition or circumstances of situation, i. e. Accident or physical impairment.

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[jessthedog]

Sometimes it's not a hard decision. Sometimes only an ambulance will do. The choice may not be available. Not everyone can get to A and E through their own resources or time, it maybe their condition or circumstances of situation, i. e. Accident or physical impairment.

Completely agree with you, and a bloody hard decision to make.
I have heard numerous instances where people have waited for an Ambulance to arrive, only for the person to die.
We are in unprecedented times. The Ambulance service has been struggling for a number of years, but now it is in a critical position, but the police service and fire service will follow suit I'm afraid.
The prison service is going under too!

 

[jessthedog]

We are in unprecedented times. The Ambulance service has been struggling for a number of years, but now it is in a critical position, but the police service and fire service will follow suit I'm afraid.
The prison service is going under too!

Anyone seen the news?
If you keep cutting public services, it comes a time, when it collapses.

 

[SpeedyDux]

Aww sorry you been through that Andy...

The ambulance people normally do an amazing job but after I desperately called them for my 94 yr old mother on the last occasion I have lost respect and realise it is luck of the draw. Not going into details or it will turn into a medical bashing thread BUT agree ... the 999 set up is NOT working and not just for medical calls.

Movan, I had a similar unfortunate experience with the failing emergency system when my dad collapsed at his house. To cut a long story short, the promised ambulance failed to turn up despite repeated phone calls. Eventually my sister who works for the NHS went to the nearest hospital and raised hell until one of the ambulance crews responded. My poorly dad was taken to the A&E about 7 hours after the intial 999 emergency call. 10 days later he passed away, in the ITU. We will never know if a sooner start of treatment for his pneumonia might have saved him. He was 76.

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[jessthedog]

Movan, I had a similar unfortunate experience with the failing emergency system when my dad collapsed at his house. To cut a long story short, the promised ambulance failed to turn up despite repeated phone calls. Eventually my sister who works for the NHS went to the nearest hospital and raised hell until one of the ambulance crews responded. My poorly dad was taken to the A&E about 7 hours after the intial 999 emergency call. 10 days later he passed away, in the ITU. We will never know if a sooner start of treatment for his pneumonia might have saved him. He was 76.

I'm soo sorry for your loss SpeedyDux, I hope that the delay, did not have an impact on the sad loss of your dad.
I don't think people realise that the cuts in the public service will start to have a major impact on the expectations on the services that they have taken for granted.

 

[Langtoftlad]

The sad fact is that our public services can no longer be relied upon (for many reasons, cuts, increased demand, spurious calls).
We have to accept this fact, its where we are in the cycle and make our plans accordingly.

Until the public in general stop using emergency services for elastoplasts, for drug abuse, for alcohol abuse blah blah.
Until our masters decide limited taxpayer revenues should be spent on essentials rather than headlining fripperies.
Until the management of those services direct their budget to the frontline rather than box ticking bureaucracy.

As some who can afford it, or choose it to be their priority already pay extra (over & above their taxes) for private education, private health care, private police (security) - I can forsee private ambulances (in the USA I understand) and private fire response.

 

[GJH]

I don't think people realise that the cuts in the public service will start to have a major impact on the expectations on the services that they have taken for granted.

The main problem is, as with any budget, that people can only (collectively) reasonably expect what they can (collectively) pay for. If expectations are higher than available funding then either expectations have to be reigned back or people have to start paying more.

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[Geo]

My Bro an Ambulance Call center operator for 8 years was Dismissed for failing to follow a new on screen script. despite evidence the new scripts were delaying response times he lost his case for unfair dismissal on the grounds that the ambulance service rules are there for good reason and he simply broke them
He had officially dispatched a crew to the scene before giving resuscitation instructions, that takes about 4 mins on a suspected heart attack, therefore artificially altering response times
the fact he made the response time quicker was " Irrelevent" his argument that the crew could be on their way whi lst re sus advice was being given was also "Irrelevant" to the charge of varying procedure Tick Box mentality gone mad

 

[gus-lopez]

That's exactly how I feel about my line of work

. I was lucky to be able to retire early..
Andy

I don't get much enjoyment Andy.
I can't yet and that's the catch

I couldn't retire either so just sold up & walked. Was it the right thing to do, probably not but at least I'm not in prison or dead.