4500 or 3500Kg??

Discussion in 'Tech/Mech General' started by johnandi, Aug 21, 2014.

  1. johnandi

    johnandi Funster

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    We are 'considering' changing our Hymer B584 and quite like the layout of the Hymer B654 (any out there for sale??).
    I've found one at a (German) dealership (I like LHD) but it is plated at 4500Kg.
    Is this an advantage or disadvantage? Presumably it doesn't make the basic 'van any heavier, just allows us to carry (even) more 'stuff'?
    I'm not sure so can anyone help please? I only thing I realise is that over 3500Kg I would have to have a re-test at age 70 - but I've another 8 years to go for that yet o_O
    Thanks
    John
     
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  2. old-mo

    old-mo Funster Extra Special Life Member

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  3. Puddleduck

    Puddleduck Funster

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    The disadvantages are that:
    a) when you get to 70 you have more hoops to jump through and
    b) the higher plate may (or may not) affect the resale value as fewer people have the C1 on their license

    If you will change your van before you get to 70 (a) will not matter and you may not have a problem anyway.
    If you are gong to run the MH until it goes to the place where they all eventually end up (b) may not matter.

    If the van is what you want I would go for it. You might want to check the weight of the base vehicle anyway just in case you wish to down plate it at any time, however remote that possibility is.
     
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  4. Forestboy

    Forestboy Funster Life Member

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    If you've got 8 years I would definitely go for it there's no substitute for nice big payload. 8 years is a long time and a lot of travelling can be done in that time and who's to say you won't be fit enough to carry on it's only a medical no big deal.
    Don't be put off by scaremongers.
    Just go for it. (y)
     
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  5. cbrookson

    cbrookson Funster

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    No problem at all - even the Road Tax is cheaper at £165. It does mean that sometimes road taxes in Europe are a bit more, and the London Low Emission Zone is more of a problem (but it is for all diesels anyway these days).

    Cheers
     
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  6. vwalan

    vwalan Funster

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    lowering it anyway is only a voluntary paperwork exercise . easily done by contacting swansea .
    have good use of its higher weights then if you think you cant pass the medical lower the gvw .
     
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  7. johnandi

    johnandi Funster

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    Hi All,
    Many thanks to you all for the positive advice. Our B584 is actually plated at 3850Kg so we do attract the lower road tax but 4500Kg just seemed such a big big increase and I couldn't understand the implications.
    So, you've reassured me on that issue, many thanks.
    The option to lower the gvw is good advice and presumably could be done if/when we decide to sell if needed.
    Just need to talk nicely to the dealer now and see if a deal can be done! ;)
     
  8. motorhomer

    motorhomer Read Only Funster

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    If its over 3500mgw - ie 3850 - anyway you may as well go for the biggest you can get, there are no more disadvantages.

    BUT There are disadvantages of being over 3500 as well as the licence implications, that no one else has mentioned.

    Its not significant in the UK but on the continent many speed regulations are different over 3500, ie lower. There are different toll charges, often higher above 3500kg. In some countries the procedure is completely different above 3500, eg Austria and GO boxes. Often, eg in Germany, above 3500 restricts which lanes you can drive in on some motorways, which can have the effect of joining long queues of lorries which you could just pass in a lighter motorhome.

    But the key thing is whether or not you can live with the reduced payload on the lower MGW rating. Only you can decide that!

    In the UK the key weight is 3050 unladen. Below that national limits are 70, motorway or dual carriageway, 60 on other roads. Above that they are 70 motorway, 60 dual carriageway, or 50 other roads. Note that this is unladen which is not the same thing as mass in running order oft quoted by motorhome manufacturers.
     
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  9. motorhomer

    motorhomer Read Only Funster

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    There is one other point which many people might not think about - I didn't until I was taught by circumstances. There is another aspect to the licencing issues as well as the change at 70.
    There are some health conditions which are notifiable to the DVLA if you wish to drive a vehicle above 3500kg. but not for lighter vehicles. These can arise at any time, as I have found out, and are not age related. So if you are suddenly ill it may affect which vehicles you can drive.
     
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  10. tambo

    tambo Read Only Funster

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    Worry about it in 8 years .......I've never had any vehicle that long ......buy it!
     
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  11. cbrookson

    cbrookson Funster

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    Good advice, but I do like the thought of our Hymer 700 going faster than 70 mph! Maybe I need to get and old V1 from Duxford and strap it on the top ........... :Eeek:

    Cheers
     
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  12. Detnor

    Detnor Funster

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    All very interesting, there is a Hymer 590 I saw on one of the dealers sites on the 5,300kg Mercedes chassis, that should have enough payload to meet even the most demanding requirements. I must admit to being tempted....
     
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  13. WAG2CRU

    WAG2CRU Read Only Funster

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    We have a 654sl star edition with the 3 litre engine, plated at 4000kg as I understand it they can be plated at 3500kg if required. There is currently a 654sl star edition at Travelworld I know it has the smaller engine but I don't know what weight it is plated at.
     
  14. johnandi

    johnandi Funster

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    Thanks Motorhomer for the advice. We don't tend to go very fast anyway so the speed limit maximum would not be an issue, thanks. I take your point about sudden changes in health affecting ability to drive over 3500Kg but suppose you have to downspec at that time.
    I'm now wondering (need to ask the German dealer me thinks!) whether the vehicle has had any modifications which allow it to have been plated at 4500Kg - e.g. spring assisters, air suspension, etc

    I mean, surely you can't just apply to have a vehicles normal gvw's increased to....whatever!?
     
  15. johnandi

    johnandi Funster

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    Thanks, I'm coming round to that way of thinking Tambo!
     
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  16. johnandi

    johnandi Funster

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    Hi Bat21 - yes, we saw it yesterday actually and decided we liked the layout but it was tooooo new for us (2012), or should I say, toooooo expensive. 2008/9 suits our budget better! ;)

    Going to a 7m 'van is quite a change from our sub 6 metre B584 but I suppose the back will follow the front.....most of the time!
     
  17. vwalan

    vwalan Funster

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    very often you can apply and just get them uplifted . mind you need the spec etc plus tyres may need upgrading for a higher weight .
    its daft you may think but some just originally down plate a higher gvw van or chassis cab as it saves manufacturing different weights .
    its all about pricing sometimes .
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2014
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  18. Carol

    Carol Funster Life Member

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    :Smile:Oooo John, go for it, you should have no problem selling the Hymer 584, their were a couple of people looking for one at Malvern and I know one who could be in the market now.
     
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  19. johnandi

    johnandi Funster

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    We'll be in touch Carol - need to catch up with you and Ed anyway (and return some books/Atlas, thanks!) :)
     
  20. WAG2CRU

    WAG2CRU Read Only Funster

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    [QUOTE="johnandi, post: 1089193, member: 13865"
    I'm now wondering (need to ask the German dealer me thinks!) whether the vehicle has had any modifications which allow it to have been plated at 4500Kg - e.g. spring assisters, air suspension, etc

    I mean, surely you can't just apply to have a vehicles normal gvw's increased to....whatever!?[/QUOTE]

    Hi johnandi

    I'm not sure they would need any modification the 654 is on an Alko chassis as I understand it, can be plated between 3500 and 4850.
    The build sheet for ours specifies uprated front springs but I think that is probably standard to match the extended chassis.

    I would look carefully at them if the ones you are looking at are built 2006/8, as I understand it, this was the period when Hymer where adopting new technology and construction methods, they had some quality control issues at the time, this also coincides with the reverse gear issues on the x250.

    We love our 654, I did have a look at the 2015 Hymer's as ours is coming up to 2 years old and 22000 miles but, there seems nothing now to compete with the 654sl star edition unless we go to 8m +so, we will be keeping it!
     
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