110ah v 135ah batteries (1 Viewer)

themountaintiger

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Trying to find ways of lasting more than 3 days without EHU. Been discussing on other posts re extra bank of batteries or solar power etc.

One thing I have just thought about is replacing current batteries 2 x 110ah with 2 x 135ah. Is there any way 'generally' to know how much better would these batteries be comparative to my current 110ah batteries?

Would they be 1.5x better or 2 x better 3x etc, or would they last me 4/5/6 days whilst my current batteries last me 3 days..

Any thoughts gladly appreciated ...












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steveclecy

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There are plenty of electrical experts here (and I'm not one) but simply put, 270 amp/hours as opposed to 220 amp/hours would give 50 more hours at 1 amp, or 1 more hour at 50 amps (theoretical only), but more likely somewhere between the two. You will have just over 20% more capacity, so on the same usage, 20% more time.

Would the extra cost/weight be worth it?

Steve
 
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themountaintiger

themountaintiger

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There are plenty of electrical experts here (and I'm not one) but simply put, 270 amp/hours as opposed to 220 amp/hours would give 50 more hours at 1 amp, or 1 more hour at 50 amps (theoretical only), but more likely somewhere between the two. You will have just over 20% more capacity, so on the same usage, 20% more time.

Would the extra cost/weight be worth it?

Steve

Depends on cost of alternatives, which so far has involved addition of solar power, and the one I thought of was extra bank of batteries, but thinking then of adding another 2 x 110ah, or addition of third battery. In terms of weight I have enough payload....

I was looking at RalphNBevs posts about having Trojan batteries which appear to be better (although not 135ah ones) but need proper venting..


Just trying to weigh up alternatives

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Techno

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I'm curious to know at what voltage you think your batteries are close to being flat?
I'm sure some people are confused by the state of charge voltages quoted elsewhere as these are off load voltages.
Sargent EC units don't disconnect the loads until the battery drops to 9.0 volts

"This is an emergency cut off level to protect the
battery from severe damage. You should not rely
on this cut off level during normal operation, but
manage your power consumption to a discharge
level of 10v.
This cut off only applies to power drawn from the
battery by the leisure equipment that is controlled
by the control panel power switch; it will not protect
the battery from discharge by the radio or other
permanently connected equipment"
 
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themountaintiger

themountaintiger

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I'm curious to know at what voltage you think your batteries are close to being flat?
I'm sure some people are confused by the state of charge voltages quoted elsewhere as these are off load voltages.
Sargent EC units don't disconnect the loads until the battery drops to 9.0 volts

"This is an emergency cut off level to protect the
battery from severe damage. You should not rely
on this cut off level during normal operation, but
manage your power consumption to a discharge
level of 10v.
This cut off only applies to power drawn from the
battery by the leisure equipment that is controlled
by the control panel power switch; it will not protect
the battery from discharge by the radio or other
permanently connected equipment"


From memory I think the cut off is 11.9v. I seem to remember someone on here had a table showing that when leisure battery reached this figure then it was close to being discharged. I think my cab battery is set at same figure also...I havent checked exactly...its just from what i remember.

I didnt think it was as low as 10v though....


Just reading this web page which was linked on another post within motorhome fun...giving me some great advice re ralph n bevs Trojan batteries are so good...

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Techno

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The Sargent disconnects the cab battery at 10.9 volts to ensure the engine will start.

12 volts under load is nowhere near discharged
 
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pappajohn

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to give an idea of load and no-load voltages....

an engine battery may show as low as 9v when cranking but will almost instantly return to 12.6v when you release the key, depending how long you were cranking (engine not running)
 
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themountaintiger

themountaintiger

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Ah found this by Pappajohn in another post


you should never discharge below 50%/12.1v....which seems to be your indicated start point.

Here is a table to help you determine the state of charge of a 12-volt battery:

battery volts......Percent of Charge

12.73v.............. 100%
12.62v.............. 90%
12.50v.............. 80%
12.37v.............. 70%
12.24v.............. 60%
12.10v.............. 50%
11.96v.............. 40%
11.81v.............. 30%
11.66v.............. 20%
11.51v.............. 10%








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Techno

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To be honest I think some folk either expect too much or dont use their batteries to full potential.
If you budget for a pair of these to replace every 3 to 4yrs you cant go wrong
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550 cycles so if you discharged them every outing then that's 550 outings!. Considering most are often on hook up then this is never going to happen. What really causes damage is OVER DISCHARGING and failing to fully recharge them as a matter of urgency
 
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Techno

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Ah found this by Pappajohn in another post


you should never discharge below 50%/12.1v....which seems to be your indicated start point.

Here is a table to help you determine the state of charge of a 12-volt battery:

battery volts......Percent of Charge

12.73v.............. 100%
12.62v.............. 90%
12.50v.............. 80%
12.37v.............. 70%
12.24v.............. 60%
12.10v.............. 50%
11.96v.............. 40%
11.81v.............. 30%
11.66v.............. 20%
11.51v.............. 10%






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Yes they are with no load on the battery. If your batteries are under load those voltages mean nothing
 
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haganap

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Well that`s our 13th year & still loving it.
batteries

Adding more batteries to a system isn`t really the answer, I`m thinking best to go to the beginning of the problem rather than the end.
ie rather than just add extra batteries, identify and control the usage, do you have LED lighting, do you watch your tele for extended periods on 12v, run a laptop etc etc.

We have found that fitting a solar panel keeps our system topped up for our needs during the summer months, without the need to connect to an EHU.
 
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themountaintiger

themountaintiger

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Adding more batteries to a system isn`t really the answer, I`m thinking best to go to the beginning of the problem rather than the end.
ie rather than just add extra batteries, identify and control the usage, do you have LED lighting, do you watch your tele for extended periods on 12v, run a laptop etc etc.

We have found that fitting a solar panel keeps our system topped up for our needs during the summer months, without the need to connect to an EHU.

Well im lasting 3 days on the 2 x 110ah batteries, however when I say 3 days the control panel is saying that there is 12.1/12.2v left on the batteries. Ill probably have tv on sometimes with dvd on for 2-3 hrs per day, I have led lighting, the heater fan is only on sparingly, might charge my netbook up once.., to be honest I feel im using power sparingly when just on leisure batteries.

I think what techno is saying is that I could probably discharge the batteries further. Techno can go down to 10.9v, so perhaps I shouldnt be too worried if I go down to 11.5v??












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Techno

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Yes that's what I'm saying. If you drop to 11 volts with the TV on etc then I'd consider calling it a day but still OK for some LED ltg and the water pump as it is occasional. Must recharge at earliest opportunity. If you turn everything off you'll see a true battery reading after 5 to 10 minutes reflecting the charge state as per pappajohn's chart
 
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themountaintiger

themountaintiger

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Yes that's what I'm saying. If you drop to 11 volts with the TV on etc then I'd consider calling it a day but still OK for some LED ltg and the water pump as it is occasional. Must recharge at earliest opportunity. If you turn everything off you'll see a true battery reading after 5 to 10 minutes reflecting the charge state as per pappajohn's chart

Techno, Im almost fainting if the TV is on and its at 12.1v. Im not sure where this fear has come from, perhaps Ive read that if my batteries get to under 12v my motorhome will spontaneously combust!!!!


Ill try that for now for extended trips off EHU and see how I get on

thanks :thumb:

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aba

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Well im lasting 3 days on the 2 x 110ah batteries, however when I say 3 days the control panel is saying that there is 12.1/12.2v left on the batteries. Ill probably have tv on sometimes with dvd on for 2-3 hrs per day, I have led lighting, the heater fan is only on sparingly, might charge my netbook up once.., to be honest I feel im using power sparingly when just on leisure batteries.

I think what techno is saying is that I could probably discharge the batteries further. Techno can go down to 10.9v, so perhaps I shouldnt be too worried if I go down to 11.5v??

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only 3 days on 220 amp thats heavy consumption or your just not discharging them far enough.

we used to get 2 nights and a day out of our 80ah battery which just wasn't enough so i got 2 x 155ah batteries and so far haven't tried to see how long we can get out of those although i have had on 1 occasion the 80ah one down to 10.2volt heading into the later half of day 2 but we still had a small load on it so i feel the low cut off will only work under a load situation.

although i have found it seems better to travel with the fridge turned off as it will take around 20amp off the batteries whilst driving thus reducing the charge they are getting.
 
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jonandshell

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Well, we have 9 MHF vans off to Val Thorens in 5 weeks time. We'll be staying on an aire, with hookup available for emergencies!

Between us, I think we will get more than enough data on the effectiveness of various battery solutions.
Ambient temperatures of 0 to -18 degrees celsius should sort the men from the boys!::bigsmile:

I think all you need do in your case is to stop procrastinating and go out and get a decent traction battery or two! 2x 115 Ah will easily fulfill your 3 day requirement without worrying about consumption.

Look for Trojan, Dyno, Exide, Hawker. Also search for 'traction monobloc' rather than battery, you will then start to find decent industrial batteries.

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Jim

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How many threads are going on batteries.

GET A SOLAR PANEL

If money is tight you can double your staying power by buying another battery. If your only gripe is that you run out of juice on day 2 of a long weekend, then an extra battery may be all you ever need, much cheaper than a panel, regulator and fitting.
 
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themountaintiger

themountaintiger

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Well, we have 9 MHF vans off to Val Thorens in 5 weeks time. We'll be staying on an aire, with hookup available for emergencies!

Between us, I think we will get more than enough data on the effectiveness of various battery solutions.
Ambient temperatures of 0 to -18 degrees celsius should sort the men from the boys!::bigsmile:

I think all you need do in your case is to stop procrastinating and go out and get a decent traction battery or two! 2x 115 Ah will easily fulfill your 3 day requirement without worrying about consumption.

Look for Trojan, Dyno, Exide, Hawker. Also search for 'traction monobloc' rather than battery, you will then start to find decent industrial batteries.

yes, it would seem that from reading on here and other websites that this is a better solution. Even if I did decide to go ahead with solar panels, having the right battery "platform" is the first starting point and it seems that traction batteries seem to offer better longevity...





Thanks

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themountaintiger

themountaintiger

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If money is tight you can double your staying power by buying another battery. If your only gripe is that you run out of juice on day 2 of a long weekend, then an extra battery may be all you ever need, much cheaper than a panel, regulator and fitting.


This seems to be the logical answer, although im also being pointed in the direction of solar. If I had the one 85ah battery would I still be pointed in the direction of solar hmm?

It seems to me though that getting the 2 right/best batteries is the first step in the process. After having the 2 "right/best batteries" then the next step is to decide whether to add a third, and/or add a third and a solar panel.

From my previous posts im actually unclear if im running out by end of day 3, or its just my perception when I reach 12.1v. It seems I can go lower than this, so I need to stop worrying at the 12.1v level and save my worries for around 11.5v..

My current batteries are nearing their 2nd birthday, so I might leave it another year before replacing with perhaps traction batteries already mentioned.










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themountaintiger

themountaintiger

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only 3 days on 220 amp thats heavy consumption or your just not discharging them far enough.

we used to get 2 nights and a day out of our 80ah battery which just wasn't enough so i got 2 x 155ah batteries and so far haven't tried to see how long we can get out of those although i have had on 1 occasion the 80ah one down to 10.2volt heading into the later half of day 2 but we still had a small load on it so i feel the low cut off will only work under a load situation.

although i have found it seems better to travel with the fridge turned off as it will take around 20amp off the batteries whilst driving thus reducing the charge they are getting.

think this is it....Ive been thinking 12.1v is near to discharge...







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