1 st refill today of LPG gaslow system,,, a serious leak,,, a LUCKY escape,!!! (1 Viewer)

[beltsandbraces]

you would think it should be a matter of course, once installed filled up, tested and cost put on instalment.

 

[gus-lopez]

Or worse, lazy !
One of the reasons I do all my own work is I simply do not trust other people ...
My list of trusted people to work on my van is very very short.

What @Jaws said. Unfortunately many people aren't in the position of being able to do many things themselves , which makes it far worse when you are paying someone who then don't do what you are paying for.

 

[John & Joan]

I had my under-slung tank fitted by the now defunct MTH in the Forest of Dene. I understand he is now operating mobile selling and fitting gas installations in Spain/Portugal, so beware.
I smelt gas after he filled it up but he said the system was sound and it was just residue smell from the old pipe and regulator in the old gas locker. Next day I was a Conrad Andersons after spending the night in the van to have a Gasparini LPG Generator fitted and they found he had cracked a nut on a joint he made in the gas locker and that was the source of the smell.
MTH was registered and had his certificates displayed on the workshop wall. He also had a good write up in a Motorhome Magazine (MMM or Practical not sure which now) which made me travel from the North East to the Forrest of Dene to have the work done.
Reports later came on a forum of a tank falling off after filling, this had also been fitted by MTH. Chris at Autogas2000 near Thirsk offered to check any installation so I went to him. He found that my tank was hanging from the cradle by its straps instead of sitting on it The cradle was screwed onto the thin plywood skin of the floor of the motorhome with wood screws. Chis corrected the installation my constructing a chassis mounting bracket for the cradle so the tank sat on it and the bracket and cradle took the weight not the retaining straps. Since then I have gone annually to Chris for him to check everything out and all has been fine.

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[Sandancers]

Setting aside the shocking installation that the OP suffered, much better to have a visible large leak than a small leak in pipe work which has the potential to form an explosive concentration in a hidden area waiting for a source of ignition.

 

[Mickey1]

I had gasit fitted last Thursday, After reading this, I'm now going to check with the fairy liquid.

Mickey.

 

[canopus]

So summing up then - there are 'expert' cowboys out there who are able to 'self certify' their work to satisfy insurers.
Surely this cant be right.

When we had our narrowboat built, which falls into a very similar leisure industry sector i.e. many privately owned, many hired out, gas installation work had to be installed and certified by what was then called a Corgi Registered Installer. Many boat fitters abandoned gas work because for them to get and keep the 'gas ticket' cost them a lot of money. Consequently the number of gas fitters on the canal system diminished significantly.

Without the gas certification, you couldn't obtain a boat safety certificate which in turn, meant you couldn't register the vessel with British Waterways (now Canal & River Trust), hence you couldn't get a boat licence, insurance or mooring permit - so technically you couldn't use the boat.

Its time the Motorhome/Caravan Industry was brought in line IMO.

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[eddie]

So summing up then - there are 'expert' cowboys out there who are able to 'self certify' their work to satisfy insurers.
Surely this cant be right.

When we had our narrowboat built, which falls into a very similar leisure industry sector i.e. many privately owned, many hired out, gas installation work had to be installed and certified by what was then called a Corgi Registered Installer. Many boat fitters abandoned gas work because for them to get and keep the 'gas ticket' cost them a lot of money. Consequently the number of gas fitters on the canal system diminished significantly.

Without the gas certification, you couldn't obtain a boat safety certificate which in turn, meant you couldn't register the vessel with British Waterways (now Canal & River Trust), hence you couldn't get a boat licence, insurance or mooring permit - so technically you couldn't use the boat.

Its time the Motorhome/Caravan Industry was brought in line IMO.

So who would change the Calor gas bottles? That is just as dangerous as fitting Gaslow or Gasit

Equally there are no regulations for using gas in marine boats.

 

[DavidG58]

It all seems to come down to testing, if the fitter has no means of filling the system how can he test it??

They either need to start stocking gas, or take the vehicle to a LPG sales point to prove it works before letting it out of their site, or presenting their bill

 

[canopus]

So who would change the Calor gas bottles? That is just as dangerous as fitting Gaslow or Gasit

Equally there are no regulations for using gas in marine boats.

Changing Calor gas bottles over is no more dangerous than filling a car with petrol, providing common sense is used.

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[WSandME]

" if the fitter has no means of filling the system how can he test it??"
Perhaps suppliers of the systems could rent out a filler adapter which had a schrader-type valve to allow pressurising by a foot pump to allow leak detection?

 

[wiljoy]

It just proves we don't have professional tradesmen now. The word experienced installer used to be a translation of cowboy. This is why I've never had a so called professional touch my vans for over 15 years. I to had a skilled botched job carried out so now feel it's safer to do it myself.

 

[eddie]

It all seems to come down to testing, if the fitter has no means of filling the system how can he test it??

They either need to start stocking gas, or take the vehicle to a LPG sales point to prove it works before letting it out of their site, or presenting their bill

We normally quote between 1 1/2 - 2 hours to install Gaslow

This is the time that we normally take to discuss where the filler is going to go with the customer, take out the old bottles and hoses, drill the hole for the filler, file the edges, Vacuum out the mess, seal and install the new filler, install the new hoses, connect up the bottles, drive over to our on site gas station, fill and test, then check the appliance internally.

"Two hours, I can get a bloke who will do it at home who has quoted an hour" Our response would normally be "Great, get them to do the job then!" Then we get accused of being arrogant for saying this.

The way we look at it is we sell Gaslow equipment at the Gaslow list price.
we then give subscribed Funsters 10% off of those prices. We then advise that it takes us 90 - 120 minutes to install in what we think is a safe way, and we are very happy if some one wants to go somewhere else who thinks that they will do it much quicker

We think that the reality is that it is only quicker because the job isn't carried out the way that we would do it

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[eddie]

" if the fitter has no means of filling the system how can he test it??"
Perhaps suppliers of the systems could rent out a filler adapter which had a schrader-type valve to allow pressurising by a foot pump to allow leak detection?

Gaslow sell the correct equipment to allow their equipment to be pressure tested safely

 

[eddie]

Changing Calor gas bottles over is no more dangerous than filling a car with petrol, providing common sense is used.

I was replying to your statement about certification.

 

[mitzimad]

most of the instal can be checked with normal gas engineers equipment its the filler hose side of it that needs special adaptor to go on the fill point

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[andy63]

Some points that come to mind from reading this...
If the vehicle is for hire then there are obviously some safety checks that have to be made (from reading the points above but I wasn't aware ) and certified for the van to be hire out. ..why can the same checks not be part of any motor home gas installation? ?? And apply to all..
Reference is been made of pressure testing etc,but it's important to remember that the only time and way to test the filling system up to the inlet of the cylinders or tank is to actually have it connected up to the fillIing pump.. as there will be a non return on the fill.. so the test on the rest of the installation won't show up a leak there...
Important to note that if you have installed it yourself when you go for your first fill.. if you've paid someone to do it its resonable to expect they have done that...
Andy

 

[Deleted member 29692]

So summing up then - there are 'expert' cowboys out there who are able to 'self certify' their work to satisfy insurers.
Surely this cant be right.

None of the insurers I've used for a MH have ever asked for or been sent any kind of installation or test certificate for the LPG installation. They couldn't - because no regulations apply there is no standard model of certificate that could be issued.

Changing Calor gas bottles over is no more dangerous than filling a car with petrol, providing common sense is used.

Are you really comparing compression joints on a gas bottle to a petrol pump? Seriously?

 

[canopus]

So you are saying changing a calor gas bottle in a motorhome is dangerous?

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[Derbyshire wanderer]

From the replies already posted it appears to me that there are 'installers' out there and a few of them are able to provide and fill the tank with gas.
Those that cannot fill the tank before handing over the 'professionally' fitted system should not be taking on the work.
Until the installation is tested ready to use, it is NOT PROVEN AS SAFE and the buyer should realise this.
Fitted properly there is nothing to worry about, but it appears from some responses that getting a cheap or local job will satisfy the insurance company as a 'professional' has done the work.
At best they could be risking a serious fire but ultimately could end up losing their life.

 

[andy63]

None of the insurers I've used for a MH have ever asked for or been sent any kind of installation or test certificate for the LPG

I was asked by comfort for certificates, for a self build I did...
Both gas and electrical if I remember correctly...
I checked with a then corgi fitter as to what was involved in providing a certificate... he said he had notes on it but would have to check... it involved more than just the gas installation..
Covered permanent ventilation available etc .... in the end I just went elsewhere for insurance . And comfort wernt a great deal of help in terms of been specific as to what was required and who could do it..
Andy..

 

[eddie]

However

Some points that come to mind from reading this...
If the vehicle is for hire then there are obviously some safety checks that have to be made (from reading the points above but I wasn't aware ) and certified for the van to be hire out. ..why can the same checks not be part of any motor home gas installation? ?? And apply to all..

Because the general public would then be prohibited from changing their own gas bottles

Reference is been made of pressure testing etc,but it's important to remember that the only time and way to test the filling system up to the inlet of the cylinders or tank is to actually have it connected up to the fillIing pump.. as there will be a non return on the fill.. so the test on the rest of the installation won't show up a leak there...

The Gaslow test equipment is really inexpensive and goes straight into the external fill point so the whole thing is tested

if you've paid someone to do it its reasonable to expect they have done that...
Andy

Entirely reasonable

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[Deleted member 29692]

I was asked by comfort for certificates, for a self build I did...

Interesting. I'm with Comfort and they've never asked for anything.

Could they have different requirements for self builds perhaps?

 

[Dogeared]

1. Should you name and shame this installer, a, to protect other motorhomers, b, as a lesson to other installers who are not competent.

2. I have mentioned before about my concerns about the competence of companies that conduct our annual service to check properly that we are safe.

It's always worth checking with someone who is competent that our systems are safe, and asking them to explain the checks that they have done. We check our home systems annually and they suffer less ware and tear than a motorhome.

 

[andy63]

Because the general public would then be prohibited from changing their own gas bottles

So does that mean that the people who hire the said motor homes can't change their cylinders when they are on the road???
I saw your bit about equipment been available to test the whole system... I wasn't aware it was available but not surprised you say it's expensive....
Thanks Andy.

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[Stroppy Bird]

@eddievanbitz
Is this the gaslow test equipment that you're referring to?
http://www.gaslowdirect.com/epages/...jectPath=/Shops/cyujrhdmmu67/Products/01-4999

Wish I'd known about it when I did mine! Could have split the cost with my neighbour who fitted his own system too. I think for piece of mind if fitting your own system it's worth the cost.

 

[Jaws]

When you think about it, even somewhere without an LPG station close by could test the system easily enough.
All that is needed is a spare gas bottle and one of those hoses many of use to connect said bottle to the filler point.

Or better still, an air filler adapter .. Only about £15 or so.

http://www.autogasshop.co.uk/gas-bottle--tank-system-pressure-test-adapter-1049-p.asp

 

[JJ]

When my Gaslow system was fitted at a show some years ago by John of CMR, he emphasised that I should check the tightness of all the pipes after a little time.

Just saying

JJ

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[eddie]

@eddievanbitz
Is this the gaslow test equipment that you're referring to?


Wish I'd known about it when I did mine! Could have split the cost with my neighbour who fitted his own system too. I think for piece of mind if fitting your own system it's worth the cost.

The link just takes you to the Gaslow page

 

[eddie]

So does that mean that the people who hire the said motor homes can't change their cylinders when they are on the road???
I saw your bit about equipment been available to test the whole system... I wasn't aware it was available but not surprised you say it's expensive....
Thanks Andy.

Hi I have no idea what the arrangements are for hire vans? All I know is that for gas installation when the van is for hire and reward additional gas checks have to be carried out. If those checks were extended to cover motorhomes used privately you would get to the point where, we, for example wouldn't be allowed to swap an empty calor gas bottle over, for an Old lady, but she would be allowed to do it herself

Daft!

The If I said the Gaslow test stuff was expensive it was a typo, from memory about £80? ish? EDIT StroppyBird has found the link two posts down

We have it but of course we fill and test every installation

Its all academic at the moment Gaslow have managed to run out of gas bottles

 

[Stroppy Bird]

The link just takes you to the Gaslow page

Hmm

Don't know what's happened there.

Is this one any better?
http://www.gaslowdirect.com/epages/...jectPath=/Shops/cyujrhdmmu67/Products/01-4999

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