1 mph over the limit and you are nicked (2 Viewers)

D

Deleted member 29692

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My view is that this is because of too many inappropriate speed limits. The blunt nature of their use causes so much frustration. For example we have a new school on the edge of our town that used to be 60mph and now (quite rightly) has been reduced to 30mph however the 30mph is only really important for 1 hour each morning and evening, that is 10 hours each week leaving the other 158 hours of the week with an unnecessary low speed limit.
We have many sites like this for many different reasons but all of them use the lowest common denominator speed limit to protect against a very specific/precise issue
The only safe speed is an "appropriate" speed ie the prevailing road conditions should dictate more than arbitrary limits

And that attitude is exactly the problem.

No matter what speed limit is in place for a particular road there will always be some idiot who thinks they know better.

If the limit was 100mph there would be someone who thought 120mph was more "appropriate"

It really doesn't matter one bit whether someone agrees with the limit or not. That doesn't give them the right to exceed it because they think they have a better idea of an "appropriate" limit. If that's the prevailing attitude, and the reason for so many people speeding, then perhaps the penalties aren't high enough.

How about a £500 fine and a 6 month ban to replace the current £100/3 points?

How many idiots would still think they know better if that's what they were facing if they get caught?
 
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My view is that this is because of too many inappropriate speed limits. The blunt nature of their use causes so much frustration. For example we have a new school on the edge of our town that used to be 60mph and now (quite rightly) has been reduced to 30mph however the 30mph is only really important for 1 hour each morning and evening, that is 10 hours each week leaving the other 158 hours of the week with an unnecessary low speed limit.
We have many sites like this for many different reasons but all of them use the lowest common denominator speed limit to protect against a very specific/precise issue
The only safe speed is an "appropriate" speed ie the prevailing road conditions should dictate more than arbitrary limits
Are you saying nobody leaves or enters the school during the other hours ? The difference between being hit by a vehicle at 30 mph compared to 60 mph is usually death.
 
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And that attitude is exactly the problem.

No matter what speed limit is in place for a particular road there will always be some idiot who thinks they know better.

If the limit was 100mph there would be someone who thought 120mph was more "appropriate"

It really doesn't matter one bit whether someone agrees with the limit or not. That doesn't give them the right to exceed it because they think they have a better idea of an "appropriate" limit. If that's the prevailing attitude, and the reason for so many people speeding, then perhaps the penalties aren't high enough.

How about a £500 fine and a 6 month ban to replace the current £100/3 points?

How many idiots would still think they know better if that's what they were facing if they get caught?
Nah no good......should be like in Norway, they take a percentage of your wealth as a fine and jail time. Only fools and foreigners speed in Norway (until they get caught in a hidden camera).

Norway
& Iceland
Highest Fines: 10% of annual income and jail time (Norway), $2700 (Iceland)
Travelers already will know that Norway is absurdly expensive in many ways, as Iceland used to be before its banking system collapsed last year, and their speeding fines are no different, at 10 per cent of annual income and $2700 respectively. But Norway distinguishes itself by imposing a mandatory minimum jail term of 18 days for speeding offenses deemed excessive alongside the hefty fine. Speeders can also face community service or a license suspension of more than three years. In Iceland, higher fines are justified by their supporters by the danger of driving on roads that can turn quickly from tarmac to gravel, often leading to unintended consequences for fast drivers.

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sdc77

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The only safe speed is an "appropriate" speed ie the prevailing road conditions should dictate more than arbitrary limits
Thats madness.. what's appropriate?
Using that logic we can just all make up our own "appropriate" laws.
 
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Wow !!!! What reactions... Is this MHF? Or have I teleported to the dark side?

I obviously haven't made myself as clear as I intended

Outside of the "peak" 2 hours per day those roads to which I referred go back to being completely empty, non - residential, country roads ie back to being their original 60mph limit state

As for your views on sentencing, why not simplify the whole criminal justice system and bring in mandatory death sentences for all crimes? You know you want to...
 
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Thats madness.. what's appropriate?
Using that logic we can just all make up our own "appropriate" laws.
Appropriate to me is if it's 30mph limit and it's raining then you slow down... If the limit is 20mph and you are passing children playing on the pavement then slow down...

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sdc77

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Appropriate to me is if it's 30mph limit and it's raining then you slow down... If the limit is 20mph and you are passing children playing on the pavement then slow down...
... and when you get to the A12... ? Stick to the speed limit or do what you think is appropriate?
 
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... and when you get to the A12... ? Stick to the speed limit or do what you think is appropriate?
If it's busy/raining/icy, then slow. If it's clear traffic but dark then somewhere around the speed limit. If it's clear traffic then a bit faster than 70 where possible

I think my point was that common sense should be allowed to prevail. I'd be teed off I was fined for doing 31 in a 30 limit on a Sunday night in the middle of nowhere like we have round here...

Anyway, now that we don't have any policemen anymore, it's not like I am going to be in that situation...
 

GWAYGWAY

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As you might already know there is a knee jerk speed limit on the whole of the A20 from Roundhill tunnel exit at Folkestone to the Archliffe roundabout at Dover. This is high grade dual carriageway and is open road. However there may some times when the operation Stack is going that they stop traffic a Archcliffe roundabout , so they put traffic lights there to stop lorries. There is no reason for 95% of the time but the limit of 40mph is 24/7/365 and they a have collection cameras for the Police and the highways so you can get caught for both at the same time. The big not thought out problem is that the lights are SET TO GREEN at the roundabout most of the time and the lorries go straight over because they have a green light, when I mean straight over I mean OVER THE CARS, the cars going around the roundabout which is not subject to the light control. Unintended consequences I believe the phrase is

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D

Deleted member 29692

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Wow !!!! What reactions... Is this MHF? Or have I teleported to the dark side?

I obviously haven't made myself as clear as I intended

Outside of the "peak" 2 hours per day those roads to which I referred go back to being completely empty, non - residential, country roads ie back to being their original 60mph limit state

As for your views on sentencing, why not simplify the whole criminal justice system and bring in mandatory death sentences for all crimes? You know you want to...


Your post #60 specifically complains about what you call "inappropriate speed limits" which I can only assume is just your opinion. In that post you didn't mention inappropriate speed for the conditions which is obviously a completely different thing. You saved that for later posts.

In your example can you absolutely 100% guarantee that nobody will ever be using the school entrance outside of the 2 hours a day that you feel a 30mph limit is "appropriate?" If you can't then IMHO the 30mph limit is correct all the time. Even one incident would be one too many as I'm sure you would agree.

Death sentences? Not sure what that has to do with speed limits but if you're really that interested then, yes I would reintroduce them for a whole range of offences.
 
Feb 5, 2009
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Your post #60 specifically complains about what you call "inappropriate speed limits" which I can only assume is just your opinion. In that post you didn't mention inappropriate speed for the conditions which is obviously a completely different thing. You saved that for later posts.
Sorry no, they were meant as two different points. The second point was just an opinion about good driving practice ie. Speed matching conditions.
My first point about the application of speed limits still stands in that I believe that they are too blunt an instrument & their use is normally lowest common denominator (rather than targeted traffic management).
I now realise that my example of the speed limit near the school needs much more complex explanation of geography, school operations, traffic flows etc, which I just can't do here, so I can only ask that you trust my judgement as a local resident when I say that outside the peak 2 hours a day, there is very little/no school traffic so therefore little/no risk.
This example was just one of a few (and not school related) the local council have put in recently.
I guess the point I was trying to make was that by not focusing the solution sufficiently for the majority of road users, the limit is brought in to disrepute & the limit gets ignored. My view would have been to have a 20mph limit in the peak hours supported by flashing warning signs, but a 50mph limit outside of that

Even one incident would be one too many as I'm sure you would agree.
No. I'm not sure I do.... life involves risks & compromises and I'm not sure a 100% guaranteed risk-free environment is ever achievable - or even desirable. Human error is just that, or are we saying that isn't allowed too?
 
D

Deleted member 29692

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No. I'm not sure I do.... life involves risks & compromises and I'm not sure a 100% guaranteed risk-free environment is ever achievable - or even desirable. Human error is just that, or are we saying that isn't allowed too?

So how many school children hit by cars would you deem an acceptable number?

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Tootles

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So how many school children hit by cars would you deem an acceptable number?
How many school children are hit by cars driven by parents I would think more to the point?? The standard of driving (and frantic efforts to park up) at school drop off-pick up times leaves a tad to be desired...........
 
D

Deleted member 29692

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How many school children are hit by cars driven by parents I would think more to the point?? The standard of driving (and frantic efforts to park up) at school drop off-pick up times leaves a tad to be desired...........

Completely agree. Different issue though.
 
Feb 5, 2009
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So how many school children hit by cars would you deem an acceptable number?
Sorry. Didn't realise the question about "incidents" directly assumed children being hit.
Hundreds of incidents/accidents occur every day - very few involve child injury I suspect. Just this morning, further along from the school, a lorry pulled into our lane causing us to brake heavily...

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Feb 5, 2009
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So how many school children hit by cars would you deem an acceptable number?
None, ideally....
and taking the logic foward, all vehicles should be physically limited to 30mph (or less) then?
After all, a child could be hit by a vehicle anywhere there is a road, not just near a school...
 
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Feb 5, 2009
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I guess what I was just trying to say that speed limits on their own are blunt instruments when used to "solve" particular safety concerns. Therefore we shouldn't be surprised when blanket measures are broken. I think safety measures should be a bit more intelligently implemented (or "appropriately") ie. My suggestion for the local school example, a slower speed limit at the peak time with visual/audible warnings
 
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Is the answer to drive at 5 mph under the max speed allowed when you know there is a speed camera and 5 mph less when you see a speed camera you will of course be driving under the speed limit yourself already but it will warn others. And me John

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D

Deleted member 29692

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Therefore we shouldn't be surprised when blanket measures are broken

Why shouldn't we? If someone is caught breaking the speed limit on any road at any time they should be penalised. If the current penalties aren't enough of a deterrent then they aren't harsh enough.

We still seem to be stuck on the point that you appear to think it's acceptable to break the law because you think you know better.

Based on that we are never going to agree.
 
D

Deleted member 29692

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Sorry. Didn't realise the question about "incidents" directly assumed children being hit.
Hundreds of incidents/accidents occur every day - very few involve child injury I suspect. Just this morning, further along from the school, a lorry pulled into our lane causing us to brake heavily...

I thought we were talking about a speed limit directly outside a school, presumably in place to protect users of the school. If that aren't children who are they?

If you had to break heavily that suggests to me that you were driving too fast for the conditions. An example of why a lower speed limit is needed (y)
 
Feb 5, 2009
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We still seem to be stuck on the point that you appear to think it's acceptable to break the law because you think you know better.
No. Am just trying to offer an opinion on why people might break speed limits & suggest an alternative approach.
If your opinion is fixed and that all laws are always correct then there's no further discussion to be had.


I'd be interested though on your thoughts on the poll tax riots. Weren't they people who thought they new better?

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Feb 5, 2009
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If you had to break heavily that suggests to me that you were driving too fast for the conditions. An example of why a lower speed limit is needed (y)
I wasn't driving and the Belgian lorry pulled out on us. Why do you assume it was my fault?
 
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D

Deleted member 29692

Deleted User
I'd be interested though on your thoughts on the poll tax riots. Weren't they people who thought they new better?

I don't think those "people" we're capable of thought. That implies that they had some basic level of intelligence which they obviously didn't/don't
 
D

Deleted member 29692

Deleted User
No. Am just trying to offer an opinion on why people might break speed limits & suggest an alternative approach.

An alternative approach to people who deliberately break the law?

I won't waste my time any more.

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Feb 5, 2009
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I don't think those "people" we're capable of thought. That implies that they had some basic level of intelligence which they obviously didn't/don't
Wow.... that's a hell of a statement....

Too forthright and too far to the right of Genghis Khan for my tastes...

Night all...
 
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