A message from Spanish police about traffic law. (1 Viewer)

[Traveller_HA5_3DOM]

@Broken Link Removed you can sit on any side you like, this is Spain and they do what they they want. When people travel to another country they are expected to follow the law in that country or pay for not doing so. Simples really.

You raise a valid point here that they are doing what they want, I have my doubts as to if this is a product of their parliament or judges making laws on this or if it is in fact some interpretation by the police who are endeavouring to become self funding in the Spanish financial crisis.
Does anyone know of a case appearing in something other than a local court where learned judges have given opinion on it?

 

[Don Quixote]

You raise a valid point here that they are doing what they want, I have my doubts as to if this is a product of their parliament or judges making laws on this or if it is in fact some interpretation by the police who are endeavouring to become self funding in the Spanish financial crisis.
Does anyone know of a case appearing in something other than a local court where learned judges have given opinion on it?

I little light reading for you.......
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_Spain
http://www.thelocal.es/20150814/corruption-casts-long-shadow-over-spains-politics
http://www.businessinsider.com/why-corruption-in-spain-is-soaring-2013-12

 

[Billy23]

You raise a valid point here that they are doing what they want, I have my doubts as to if this is a product of their parliament or judges making laws on this or if it is in fact some interpretation by the police who are endeavouring to become self funding in the Spanish financial crisis.
Does anyone know of a case appearing in something other than a local court where learned judges have given opinion on it?

Mmmm, good point.....except, from what I see and hear in Spain, unlike the UK, people, judges and police don't seem to question the law, it is the law, end of. Not saying that Spanish people don't break the law, just when they do.....they get nicked......ok guv fair Nick

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[buttons]

Don't have your fog lights on for no reason ...silly person.. and that won't happen.

Beat me to it

It is always good to have an opinion chaps but it is sometimes better to hear the full story before displaying your own egotist view.

I had been using my fog lights because the lane I had been on before the roundabout was suffering ground level fog patches. Now I’m no expert but is it the law to switch your fog lights off between patches or not.

I did think the female officer was a bit silly Minxy Girl being more interested in the fact that I may have been a boy racer than being more aware that it was a foggy night.

 

[Minxy]

It is always good to have an opinion chaps but it is sometimes better to hear the full story before displaying your own egotist view.

I had been using my fog lights because the lane I had been on before the roundabout was suffering ground level fog patches. Now I’m no expert but is it the law to switch your fog lights off between patches or not.

I did think the female officer was a bit silly Minxy Girl being more interested in the fact that I may have been a boy racer than being more aware that it was a foggy night.

I'm not bothered about you actually having your fog lights on, what I objected to was the WAY that you criticised her ... you don't like other supposed 'egotist' views, I don't like your apparent sexist and belittling view by calling her silly in the way you did. I am confident that if it had been a male police officer you wouldn't have call him a silly boy in the 'tone' you did the her.

 

[GJH]

It is always good to have an opinion chaps but it is sometimes better to hear the full story before displaying your own egotist view.

Yes. Can you please ask the police officer to write a note of her side of the story so that you can post it and we can do so.

I'm sure you will agree that that will be rather more balanced than just having your (potentially egotist and certainly less than respectful in regard to the police officer) viewpoint to rely on

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[gus-lopez]

You raise a valid point here that they are doing what they want, I have my doubts as to if this is a product of their parliament or judges making laws on this or if it is in fact some interpretation by the police who are endeavouring to become self funding in the Spanish financial crisis.
Does anyone know of a case appearing in something other than a local court where learned judges have given opinion on it?

Unfortunately you are using 'UK' thinking. Here unless the rules allow you to do it ,it is unlawful. As opposed to the UK's Legal until ruled unlawful.So until you find the " A frames / car towing " are legal law in Spain then it is illegal.
Additionally you do not become a Judge here having worked your way up from Solicitor/Barrister /QC ,etc; to be invited to sit on the bench but actually go to Uni to train as a
' judge' .
& the only opinion they would give on it was whether it contravened the law . They are not there to dispense Justice , just to rule on whether the law has been broken.

& no , Trafico ,they don't really care about "self-funding " as when attempts were made to link their pay to fines dished out we had , what was called by the press ,the " Dropped pen " boycott . Not a " strike " as Trafico officers are Guardia Civil & are still technically military so it is illegal for them to strike. So they were unable to issue any fines as neither of them remembered to bring a pen. Went on for quite a while.

I little light reading for you.......
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_Spain
http://www.thelocal.es/20150814/corruption-casts-long-shadow-over-spains-politics
http://www.businessinsider.com/why-corruption-in-spain-is-soaring-2013-12

Off topic but
I saw last night that the Public prosecutor up in Valencia has Indicted every member of the PP party there.

 

[Traveller_HA5_3DOM]

Stange thing the law, it is written by lawyers. If their income depended on just that thousands of them would be out of work. The whole judicial system depends on cases that need to be heard in courts and defendants needing to be represented. Of course the Spanish inquisition was what we now term a kangaroo court, but I think Spain moved on from that. Proving ones innocence can be more difficult than proving guilt beyond reasonable doubt. What a truly unjust system if the burden of proof is not on the person who alledges the wrongdoing.

 

[CUJIMI]

At the risk of starting world war 3 re A Frames aren't we looking at this the wrong way. Shouldn't we be A) Lobbying our MP's to get A Frames regulated and properly legal in the UK and B) Lobby our MEP's to get A Frames regulated and legalised in Europe. Surely that's what the European Union is good for.

Also why don't we get the Camping and Caravanning Club and the Caravan Club to take up the case. There must be enough Motorhomers who want to use A Frames and are already using them to give our MP's enough reason to take the matter further. Also as I understand it there's a number of French Motorhomers starting to use them that they are becoming more popular over there.

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[Don Quixote]

At the risk of starting world war 3 re A Frames aren't we looking at this the wrong way. Shouldn't we be A) Lobbying our MP's to get A Frames regulated and properly legal in the UK and B) Lobby our MEP's to get A Frames regulated and legalised in Europe. Surely that's what the European Union is good for.

Also why don't we get the Camping and Caravanning Club and the Caravan Club to take up the case. There must be enough Motorhomers who want to use A Frames and are already using them to give our MP's enough reason to take the matter further. Also as I understand it there's a number of French Motorhomers starting to use them that they are becoming more popular over there.

Good luck with that one........... you will have better luck with the lottery.

 

[CUJIMI]

Maybe it will be a one man campaign then but I just don't understand why we Brits roll over for everything we get thrown at us from Europe High viz jackets, breathalysers et al. What do mainland European drivers do when they come to the UK.

 

[scotjimland]

...I just don't understand why we Brits roll over for everything we get thrown at us from Europe High viz jackets, breathalysers et al. What do mainland European drivers do when they come to the UK.

these rules apply to all drivers in whatever EU country.. not just visitors from the UK ..

we just happen to have fewer silly driving rules that both us and visitors have to follow..

http://www.visitbritain.com/en/Transport/Getting-around-Britain/Driving-regulations-in-Britain.html

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[mustaphapint]

At the risk of starting world war 3 re A Frames aren't we looking at this the wrong way. Shouldn't we be A) Lobbying our MP's to get A Frames regulated and properly legal in the UK and B) Lobby our MEP's to get A Frames regulated and legalised in Europe. Surely that's what the European Union is good for.

Also why don't we get the Camping and Caravanning Club and the Caravan Club to take up the case. There must be enough Motorhomers who want to use A Frames and are already using them to give our MP's enough reason to take the matter further. Also as I understand it there's a number of French Motorhomers starting to use them that they are becoming more popular over there.

The result may well be A-Frames being banned in the UK and everywhere else in Europe. Best leave well alone. A discussion by barrack room lawyers on the rights and wrongs of Spain enforcing their own laws is pointless. I have every sympathy with someone who unknowingly transgresses a foreign traffic law and is punished for it, but if you knowingly and deliberately chance it then you deserve everything you get if you fall foul of a Spanish cop.
Paul

 

[CUJIMI]

Well let's look on the bright side eh? But it may go the other way if enough of us back it and get A Frames properly regulated.

 

[Traveller_HA5_3DOM]

The result may well be A-Frames being banned in the UK and everywhere else in Europe. Best leave well alone. A discussion by barrack room lawyers on the rights and wrongs of Spain enforcing their own laws is pointless. I have every sympathy with someone who unknowingly transgresses a foreign traffic law and is punished for it, but if you knowingly and deliberately chance it then you deserve everything you get if you fall foul of a Spanish cop.
Paul

Well Musthaveapint is this a clue as to discussions on legal matters. Barrack room I am not and find the reference somewhat rude.
The law makes no allowance for those who do not know or understand it. It is however frequently enforced by Police who do not understand the full implications of European law which actually overrides their own law that they apply to their own nationals.
Look forward to meeting you over a pint to discuss further,(on me).

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[seanoo]

A friend of mine has been stopped 5 times now in Spain towing with an A-frame over the last 3 years and each time has flatly refused to pay any fine or unhitch his car and drive separately . On each occasion this resulted in quite a bit of roadside armflapping and shouting but each time he has been told to go by the trafico without paying/ unhitching. This makes me think that the powers that be don't want a court case, instead they would rather just take the fines from people who would be afraid of the police. Not saying it's right but if they knew they were 100% right then surely he would not have been let continue?

 

[Traveller_HA5_3DOM]

I would think that the reason they do not want to prove their case in court is the fact that if they lost there would be an awful lot of A Framers in lining up for the return of their illegally obtained fines. Do remember though that they can legally apply their laws to residents of Spain.

 

[CUJIMI]

It seems to me though that if we are convinced that A Frames are perfectly safe method of towing a car then we should test it out and if it goes against then we should hold up our hands and give up. If we had a bad law in the UK we'd be signing petitions and getting our MP involved. Does nobody think that's a worthwhile thing to do? Also I feel the Camping and Caravan Clubs should be championing the cause. If people feel it's a non starter then I'll shut up.

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[Don Quixote]

Well let's look on the bright side eh? But it may go the other way if enough of us back it and get A Frames properly regulated.

For you to Lobby our/our MP's to get A Frames regulated and properly legal in the UK you need 100,000 signatures before they will consider it. Thats a lot of A frame owners!

 

[CUJIMI]

Or potential owners, but I take your point. Maybe the clubs would take it up but again probably an uphill struggle. Ah well never mind. Maybe the French will take it up. They're good at protesting.

 

[gus-lopez]

Stange thing the law, it is written by lawyers. If their income depended on just that thousands of them would be out of work. The whole judicial system depends on cases that need to be heard in courts and defendants needing to be represented. Of course the Spanish inquisition was what we now term a kangaroo court, but I think Spain moved on from that. Proving ones innocence can be more difficult than proving guilt beyond reasonable doubt. What a truly unjust system if the burden of proof is not on the person who alledges the wrongdoing.

Yes & this is why we all want to see the back of Rajoy & his lot who have brought in various laws, without debate & using basically " terror " legislation allowing them to be passed as decree's without any debate, due to the overwhelming majority they had. One known colloquially as the "citizen gagging law" introduced legislation meaning if you want to contest your 80€ fine you've got to deposit 900€ before going to court which will be returned if you win. Another bit states you can't slag off the Itinerants scum (like I just did ) as that is now an offence . Hopefully all will be repealed when/if we finally get a coalition sorted out . Either that or it's another election.lol

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