'GP's to report elderly patients who are considered unsafe to drive' (1 Viewer)

[buttons]

A dizzy spell or depression - absolutely would not affect a person's ability to drive. Why do you think they would?

A drink problem... well that depends on whether the person drives while under the influence. If they're sober enough to pass a breath test then I would think they're just as capable as anyone else.

Serious dizzy spell on the outside lane could be a hazard as could serious depression when you are unable to think straight or have suicidal tendencies. Being a GP would you be willing to take the responsibility for such situations or just take the easy route and inform the dvla.

 

[Jaws]

Yup.. It really does make sense to be honest
I am sure most of us know someone who REALLY should not be driving..
But it should not be an age thing.
Anyone of any age who is not fit to drive should be reported to the licencing authorities

 

[CWH]

The main thing that came out of program was that concerned family members have no way of reporting an elderly relative who refuses to stop...

Example, my father:

• no peripheral vision to the left
• unable to turn his head in either direction so unable to use wing mirrors, frequently hitting cars in car parks with his Volvo estate (without acknowledging it) and driving his new Volvo hatch into the wall at his home
• frequently passing out for a few seconds but with no memory of it so refusal to acknowledge it was happening, family joke of "so why is your dinner all over your face" had no effect
• always been a bad driver - getting speeding tickets into his eighties
• increasingly poor judgement with age (though still VERY sharp!)
• drove out of a junction directly into the path of a double-decker, bus all over the road & hit the front of the car just a few inched in front of where my niece was sitting in the passenger seat
• etc etc

And this was a man who took pride in shuttling all and sundry around to hospital visits, shopping, doctors etc, when his own family refused to get into a car with him; BIL had been refusing for about 10 years.

BUT WE COULD DO NOTHING ABOUT GETTING HIS LICENCE REVOKED.

In the end (two or three YEARS) he recognised the fainting fits, went to his GP who told him he should report it to DVLA, surrendered his licence temporarily (easier for him than having it suspended: he was 'in control' of it), had the tilt test done and had a pacemaker fitted, and then we lied and told him he couldn't get it back. He was devastated, but still alive and, as far as we know, hadn't actually hurt anyone. I think he would have tried to get his licence back but then developed another condition and now can't walk, so a couple of years on he has sold his two Volvos and earlier this year asked me to shred his paper licence.

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[GeriatricWanderer]

......................

That would never happen DVSA cannot even cope with the number of people wanting tests let alone people needing age related. ..............................

Of course it could be done - it would just need resourcing.

It seems odd that we have to have our vehicles tested every year after a certain age but not our drivers.
I cringe when watching some elderly, and not so elderly, drivers pulling in and out of supermarket car park slots. Not sure if I'd rather have them driving in front of me or behind me.
I only hope someone tells me when I get to that dithering and incapable stage.

 

[Judge Mental]

Example, my father:

• no peripheral vision to the left
• unable to turn his head in either direction so unable to use wing mirrors, frequently hitting cars in car parks with his Volvo estate (without acknowledging it) and driving his new Volvo hatch into the wall at his home
• frequently passing out for a few seconds but with no memory of it so refusal to acknowledge it was happening, family joke of "so why is your dinner all over your face" had no effect
• always been a bad driver - getting speeding tickets into his eighties
• increasingly poor judgement with age (though still VERY sharp!)
• drove out of a junction directly into the path of a double-decker, bus all over the road & hit the front of the car just a few inched in front of where my niece was sitting in the passenger seat
• etc etc

And this was a man who took pride in shuttling all and sundry around to hospital visits, shopping, doctors etc, when his own family refused to get into a car with him; BIL had been refusing for about 10 years.

BUT WE COULD DO NOTHING ABOUT GETTING HIS LICENCE REVOKED.

In the end (two or three YEARS) he recognised the fainting fits, went to his GP who told him he should report it to DVLA, surrendered his licence temporarily (easier for him than having it suspended: he was 'in control' of it), had the tilt test done and had a pacemaker fitted, and then we lied and told him he couldn't get it back. He was devastated, but still alive and, as far as we know, hadn't actually hurt anyone. I think he would have tried to get his licence back but then developed another condition and now can't walk, so a couple of years on he has sold his two Volvos and earlier this year asked me to shred his paper licence.

This not the one I was looking for but there are many....

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/widowers-campaign-elderly-drivers-face-6795272

really the tip of the iceberg

https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sour...+driver+starts+campaign+to+test+older+drivers

 

[Gromett]

I think everyone should have to retake their test every 10 years. There should be a large enough window so it can be done conveniently.
Then when you hit a certain age the 10 years should be reduced to annually. Not sure if it requires a full test but judging by the driving I see on the road I am not sure half the drivers even have a license...

In the long term I would like to see a driving license being required to be inserted into a slot in the car like the Tacho does in a truck today.
I know this would take a while to phase in but it is technically practical. A lot of the most dangerous drivers on the road don't have MOT/License/Insurance. I think something needs to be done about this also.

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[MattR]

... yes but to lose a life to keep a licence is an issue too if they don't go to the doctors when they should ...

If is the choice of one or the other, I'd rather that innocent motorists, cyclists, riders, pedestrians etc are saved. There will be consequences for those who delay treatment because they are worried about losing their licence but that is their choice.

 

[Steve and Kat]

Any medical condition that forces a driver to re-evaluate their driving condition is a good thing in my view.

 

[Badknee]

I only hope someone tells me when I get to that dithering and incapable stage.

Errrrrrrr, well actually. ....................

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[DBK]

I think MinxyGirl means that knowing you might loose your licence would stop you going to the doctors for a fit to drive medical.

I don't think it would work like that in practise as they probably don't think they have a driving problem so wouldn't consider it. I also don't think it would be a power exercised by GPs very often. Statistically, though older folk have a few accidents they have generally much less serious ones than the under twenty fives.

 

[Steve and Kat]

I think everyone should have to retake their test every 10 years. There should be a large enough window so it can be done conveniently.
Then when you hit a certain age the 10 years should be reduced to annually. Not sure if it requires a full test but judging by the driving I see on the road I am not sure half the drivers even have a license...

In the long term I would like to see a driving license being required to be inserted into a slot in the car like the Tacho does in a truck today.
I know this would take a while to phase in but it is technically practical. A lot of the most dangerous drivers on the road don't have MOT/License/Insurance. I think something needs to be done about this also.

Whilst I somewhat agree with your suggestion, it will never happen. The majority of folk on the roads today were deemed competent at the time of their test. To change the parameters now (albeit with good intention) would grind the country to a halt in my opinion. However, the standard of driving nowadays is getting worse. You only have to see it on our roads every day..

 

[Chockswahay]

Statistically, though older folk have a few accidents they have generally much less serious ones than the under twenty fives.

Yeah, statistically they have fewer, that's because they have probably caused a massive crash and driven off without being caught or they have been bumbling along soooooooo slooooowly that the driver behind has taken a risk and had an accident whilst trying to overtake them

Just sayin .....

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[DABurleigh]

I have two experiences that concerned me. Once I noticed in a garage forecourt shop the sort of elderly, weak, doddery people with questionable eyesight who happily got back in their car alone and drove off, it literally scared me. These are the people who are on single carriageway A-roads passing withing feet of me in the opposite direction at closing speeds of over 100mph. Now when filling up I can't stop myself looking out for them.

Secondly I was called out to help my widowed neighbour, who lives alone and who had had an accident nearby. We knew she had deteriorated with dementia a lot in the last couple of years, but she wanted to stay in her home and valued the freedom of her car for social contact. You can't blame her. But once I saw what she had done and she tried to explain it, if anyone had subsequently been injured, I would never be able to forgive myself for any inaction. I wrestled with that for weeks, until fortunately she moved to a nursing home, which absolved me.

Dave

 

[Fireman Sam]

Undoubtedly many older drivers will be reluctant to discuss conditions with their doctors, which they feel may put their driving licence at risk. This is not necessarily selfishness on their part; many are carers (like myself) for disabled partners and would find the loss of their cars an almost insurmountable handicap. Therefore, in the interest of our safety and their health, there must be a better way to keep unfit drivers off the road. I don’t know what this should be; some sort of vision and cognitive skills assessment perhaps for the over 75s/80s? Something probably needs to be done, but not something that makes elderly people scared of going to the doctors.

 

[Khizzie]

Now that we have basically concured on most of the idea of testing an older and more experienced drivers physical abilities to continue to drive, let's looks at the mental ability of the 30-40yr old drivers of certain German cars....aahhh life on the edge!!.

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[Khizzie]

Yeah, statistically they have fewer, that's because they have probably caused a massive crash and driven off without being caught or they have been bumbling along soooooooo slooooowly that the driver behind has taken a risk and had an accident whilst trying to overtake them that must put 90% of motorhomeers in that bracket then !!as most of us do bumble along ssoooooo sloooowly.!!

Just sayin .....

 

[busby]

I don't think drivers today are better or worse than years ago but the disregard for the law and the highway code is getting worse,,,parking on zig zags,,on blind bends, speeding in 30 mph areas etc etc,,,but with no police on the roads it can only get worse...BUSBY

 

[GWAYGWAY]

Simple answer to this is a similar health check that you have to do for retention of the HGV to 7.5 tonne. I have to do that as I am over 70 if the doctor is doubtful then the standard HGV medical will sort it and it can be done by any doctor not your own so can be totally impartial.

That medical has all manner of caveats and requirements that are not necessary, I cannot pass the treadmill test yet I can outdo most of the people on the site when it come to physical effort.

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[Southdowners]

Serious dizzy spell on the outside lane could be a hazard as could serious depression when you are unable to think straight or have suicidal tendencies. Being a GP would you be willing to take the responsibility for such situations or just take the easy route and inform the dvla.

You can't stop folk driving in case they have a dizzy spell. You certainly can't stop people suffering from depression from driving - you clearly don't understand what depression is.

If a person is taking medication which may affect their driving ability for any condition, then yes they should not drive. This already happens at the moment though. If you have a TIA you are told not to drive until further tests are carried out - usually about a month or so.

GPs aren't being asked to take responsibility for their patients. How could they possibly do that? They'd have to report almost everyone and anyone... just in case

 

[Minxy]

Yes but better to lose a licence than lose a life.

... yes but to lose a life to keep a licence is an issue too if they don't go to the doctors when they should ...

But thats their own life not someone elses!! it isn't fair if their choice to keep driving when not meeting the standard endangers others if they choose not to visit the GP that's their choice

... the problem is that if the do NOT go to the doctor anyway, the doctor won't know to then notify the DVLA so they will still continue to drive but it might stop people going who really should, who are fit to safely drive, but are afraid that going will mean they will be stopped ...

I have no issue at all with someone who is an unsafe/unfit driver being stopped from driving but what annoys me is that the responsibility for informing the DVLA should NOT just be with the doctors - if ANYONE knows of someone who is really unsafe/unfit to drive then THAT PERSON should inform the DVLA themselves, regardless of whether the person him/herself will do so voluntarily.

 

[iandsm]

Isn't this all getting rather too deep. The fact is that GP's who feel a patient is unfit to drive should inform the authorities, good, its as simple as that. Of course patients should be aware this can happen and the GP concerned should inform them of the decision to inform.

That is in addition to the clear responsibility for the individual to inform DVLA themselves
and is a backup to ensure that DVLA become aware of people, who fail to inform themselves.

(DVLA Website)
1. Telling DVLA about a medical condition or disability

You must tell DVLA if you have a driving licence and:

• you develop a ‘notifiable’ medical condition or disability
• a condition or disability has got worse since you got your licence

Notifiable conditions are anything that could affect your ability to drive safely. They can include:

• epilepsy
• strokes
• other neurological and mental health conditions
• physical disabilities
• visual impairments

You could be fined up to £1,000 if you don’t tell DVLA about a condition that might affect your ability to drive safely. You could also be prosecuted if you have an accident.

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[Minxy]

This reminds me of our friend who has the early stages of dementia, his wife informed the DVLA (as required to do) and he's not happy about it but it hasn't made any difference to his being allowed to drive, or his insurance who were also informed, but we pointed out that if she had NOT informed them on his behalf and he had an accident he could've been in deep doo-doo.

He's still fit and able to drive, it's just his short-term memory which has lapses, so not major at present ... hopefully it'll stay like that for along time!

 

[buttons]

I think everyone should have to retake their test every 10 years. There should be a large enough window so it can be done conveniently.
Then when you hit a certain age the 10 years should be reduced to annually. Not sure if it requires a full test but judging by the driving I see on the road I am not sure half the drivers even have a license...

In the long term I would like to see a driving license being required to be inserted into a slot in the car like the Tacho does in a truck today.
I know this would take a while to phase in but it is technically practical. A lot of the most dangerous drivers on the road don't have MOT/License/Insurance. I think something needs to be done about this also.

Could play havoc with the car providers, Start taking licenses from 60-65 year old's because they cant manage to pass a retest. They are the ones with the money, remove a number of these from car purchasing and the economy could tip.

 

[MattR]

Could play havoc with the car providers, Start taking licenses from 60-65 year old's because they cant manage to pass a retest. They are the ones with the money, remove a number of these from car purchasing and the economy could tip.

If they can't pass a retest, get them off road. They can spend their money on other things.

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[buttons]

If they can't pass a retest, get them off road. They can spend their money on other things.

Could decimate motorhome sales.....

 

[MattR]

Could decimate motorhome sales.....

Could decimate other road users if they aren't safe to drive.

 

[CWH]

if ANYONE knows of someone who is really unsafe/unfit to drive then THAT PERSON should inform the DVLA themselves, regardless of whether the person him/herself will do so voluntarily

I agree - but with the law / system as it stands, DVLA aren't allowed to act on this information.

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[Terry242]

I have no issue at all with someone who is an unsafe/unfit driver being stopped from driving but what annoys me is that the responsibility for informing the DVLA should NOT just be with the doctors - if ANYONE knows of someone who is really unsafe/unfit to drive then THAT PERSON should inform the DVLA themselves, regardless of whether the person him/herself will do so voluntarily.

Sounds good in theory but fall out with a neighbour and they write an anonymous letter to the DVLA?! What happens then? Do the DVLA automatically suspend your licence, do they send a copper to your door?
You could end up with no licence and a nightmare of a job to get it back.

Could I add that the 'medical conditions' provision quoted by Ian above have been in for years. Some years ago my brother was rushed into hospital with a heart condition. He was released under medication about a week later but the hospital informed the DVLA who suspended his licence for a couple of months until he was re-tested by a Dr.

Terry

 

[Minxy]

I agree - but with the law / system as it stands, DVLA aren't allowed to act on this information.

According to the info given on some of the websites of Age Concern, etc, you can, this one from the Telegraph says it too:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring...derly-relatives-if-theyre-unfit-to-drive.html

This is the form:

https://emaildvla.direct.gov.uk/emaildvla/cegemail/dvla/en/drivers_med_03.html

 

[Minxy]

Sounds good in theory but fall out with a neighbour and they write an anonymous letter to the DVLA?! What happens then? Do the DVLA automatically suspend your licence, do they send a copper to your door?
You could end up with no licence and a nightmare of a job to get it back.

Could I add that the 'medical conditions' provision quoted by Ian above have been in for years. Some years ago my brother was rushed into hospital with a heart condition. He was released under medication about a week later but the hospital informed the DVLA who suspended his licence for a couple of months until he was re-tested by a Dr.

Terry

If you inform the DVLA they will send a letter to the person concerned detailing what they have to do to confirm they are 'fit' - their licence isn't suspended at that point.

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