2nd Hand MH & the dreaded VAT (1 Viewer)

[IanF]

Look forward to your comments on this one and will not be offended at all!
Am I being stupidly pedantic or just being a tight a----- Scot in not being prepared to pay for a second hand MH (2 years old) which has just been reduced from its new price by the VAT payable when new?After all the VAT does not represent any part of the vehicle simply the tax dear George Osborne wanted from the purchaser of it! I can understand that the sellers must be aggrieved that he has nothing to show for the VAT he paid.
My way of thinking is that VAT is not payable on a second hand MH and being 2 years old there must also be depreciation to be taken off it's new cost.

Thanks again Ian

 

[IanF]

To conclude this and explain where I was coming from and had been influenced in thought. I have asked 3 reputable local dealers if I bought a new MH from you and returned the next day to sell it back to you what price would you give me? Unanimously they all said the new price less VAT then further less between 5 to 7.5 %. There was a way which was open to them to manage to sell you a new MH without VAT by apparently buying the MH from the manufacturer, pre registering the vehicle in their name ,claiming back the VAT then selling it on to you. This tax loop hole was sadly closed only last year.
Thanks for all your thought provoking and informative replies
Ian

 

[The Wino]

What they really mean is 25 to 27% less than they sold it to you but trying to explain the difference away!!!

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[Silver-Fox]

All of it unless you are vat registered and its for your business, the vat is simply part of the cost of purchase.
I bet you would say your bacon roll cost £2.40 you wouldn't say it was £2,00 and forget the vat would you?

You don't pay vat on certain foods including bread and bacon

 

[gus-lopez]

Here, regardless of what you are buying, most places will say
" you don't want to pay IVA ,do you ?"

 

[TheDogMan]

As said its called the used car scheme by HMRC , is been used by car dealers for years, used vehicles included VAT on the dealers profit profit only and they will usually not declare to a buyer what that is as you could them work out their profit margin. An example of the the exception to this is my motorhome, owned by a classic racing car driver and bought through his business and obviously I knew he claimed the VAT back, right at the end of the buying process I told him I wanted a full VAT reciept, he was not a happy bunny, I think he was going to sell for cash and leave it sitting on his books to depreciate, The VAT content was over 8k.

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[Judge Mental]

To conclude this and explain where I was coming from and had been influenced in thought. I have asked 3 reputable local dealers if I bought a new MH from you and returned the next day to sell it back to you what price would you give me? Unanimously they all said the new price less VAT then further less between 5 to 7.5 %. There was a way which was open to them to manage to sell you a new MH without VAT by apparently buying the MH from the manufacturer, pre registering the vehicle in their name ,claiming back the VAT then selling it on to you. This tax loop hole was sadly closed only last year.
Thanks for all your thought provoking and informative replies
Ian

THAT should have taught you something about going to dealers! plus reputable an oxymoron

 

[IanF]

THAT should have taught you something about going to dealers! plus reputable an oxymoron

I actually plan to buy new so I can't avoid those "reputable" dealers

 

[Judge Mental]

I actually plan to buy new so I can't avoid those "reputable" dealers

Buy in Germany or belgium, save a bundle, certainly more then the vat figure you seem fixated with from lisening to dealer nonsense,. Its the over all price that determines used value in the real world.....

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[laird of Dunstan]

I've bought motorcycles from Belgium before and for the same bike it was £1600.00 CHEAPER than the same bike in the uk , I'm beginning to think that buying a new motor home in Europe may have considerable savings but I'd have to read the small print on warranty first

 

[IanF]

Buy in Germany or belgium, save a bundle, certainly more then the vat figure you seem fixated with from lisening to dealer nonsense,. Its the over all price that determines used value in the real world.....

Can I ask how you have warranty issues resolved ? Is it simply a case of going back to the dealer or are there reciprocal UK based arrangements in place with German & Belgium dealers

 

[Lenny HB]

I only saved 12k on my current van if I was paying for it this week I would have saved 19k I feel sic.

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[Lenny HB]

Can I ask how you have warranty issues resolved ? Is it simply a case of going back to the dealer or are there reciprocal UK based arrangements in place with German & Belgium dealers

I take mine to the local dealer 20 miles away in the UK, Hymers have a pan European warranty like cars. When I brought the last van Brownhills refused to honer the Hymers Pan European warranty didn't bother be me as Belgium dealer was closer anyway, any bits that needed sorting (being a Hymer very few) had them done when having the annual damp check (£180 in UK, €60 in Belgium).

 

[Judge Mental]

Have always resolved issues by getting it sorted here and billing them, money by return! chassis issues warrenty valid Europe wide, just take it to garage. Coachbuilts more problematic so recommend Belgium. Then if any issues arise, you can pop in when going on holiday and get cheap damp check for warrenty at same time.

It's a no nonsense custumer focused approach with any Euro dealer I have dealt with, unlike here where you are lead by the nose. Also when you consider savings made, if an inconvenient return neccesary not really a big deal, and have only had this once in 20 years and made a weekend of it...


As Lenny said, I also know people who bought before Christmas who would be far better off doing the deal now. A new hobby etc... For £30k? That someone posted the other day.

 

[WAG2CRU]

I have a friend who bought a B***t*** in Germany, he has had to take it back several times, the last time, he left it there and returned in another new one. ;-)

We were assured by the Hymer dealer we bought from, who wasn't local to us that Hymer have a universal agreement that any authorised dealer will undertake warranty work regardless of whether they supplied the vehicle or not. This proved to be true as, we had a failed side marker light replaced by another dealer with no charge. Nothing else has gone wrong!

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[GJH]

Here, regardless of what you are buying, most places will say
" you don't want to pay IVA ,do you ?"

Ah, so that's why there's no Euro crisis is it?

 

[Judge Mental]

I've bought motorcycles from Belgium before and for the same bike it was £1600.00 CHEAPER than the same bike in the uk , I'm beginning to think that buying a new motor home in Europe may have considerable savings but I'd have to read the small print on warranty first

Same goes for sport road bikes..many buy in Belgium

 

[Lenny HB]

I also had a problem on my last van with the Fiat electrics (bloody canbus) turned out to be a fault caused by Hymer (nicked a loom fitting battery), Fiat dealer sorted it out when it went in for a service, cost £350 to sort. I sent the bill to my Belgium dealer he forwarded it to Hymer they not only refunded me but paid for the service as well.

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[Puddleduck]

For a tax that was supposed to be simple and easy to administer VAT is a bit of a monster! Vehicles are in a class of their own.

 

[laird of Dunstan]

I only saved 12k on my current van if I was paying for it this week I would have saved 19k I feel sic.

can I be a cheeky so and so and ask what was the uk price of your van ?

 

[Lenny HB]

can I be a cheeky so and so and ask what was the uk price of your van ?

Cheeky - UK list to the same spec 76k I paid 58k. The 10 -12k I reckon I saved was comparing to a UK discounted price.

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[laird of Dunstan]

Thank you lenny, that's one heck of a saving ,pays for a bit of diesel that does, I used to fix older motorhome for a guy who imported them from Germany , now I know why.

Was there any issues with vat , when you brought it into the uk ?

 

[Lenny HB]

Thank you lenny, that's one heck of a saving ,pays for a bit of diesel that does, I used to fix older motorhome for a guy who imported them from Germany , now I know why.

Was there any issues with vat , when you brought it into the uk ?

No, just pay the VAT online, only hold up was DVLA, from recent comments looks like they may have caught up with their backlog.

Back in 2002 I brought a caravan in Germany with the Euro at 1.50 I saved a whopping 40%.

 

[The Wino]

Cheeky - UK list to the same spec 76k I paid 58k. The 10 -12k I reckon I saved was comparing to a UK discounted price.

Does the 58k include the vat if so thats a cracking deal

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[Lenny HB]

Does the 58k include the vat if so thats a cracking deal

Off course, at current exchange rate it would only be around 49k.

 

[gus-lopez]

Friend of a friend always used to buy his lhd new over at camperama ( Think that's what it was called. ) always reclaimed vat as used for work. Best of everything, vat ,reclaimed , cheap Belgium price.

 

[Lenny HB]

Brought both my vans from Campirama they are the sole Belgium Hymer Dealer, last one was RDH current one is LHD.

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[sweetie]

You don't pay vat on certain foods including bread and bacon

You do in a vat registered cafe when they are put together as a bacon sandwich

 

[DanielFord]

You do in a vat registered cafe when they are put together as a bacon sandwich

And hot, don't forget that (particularly dumb bit of legislation). Bread and bacon don't attract VAT on their own, but cooked bacon would, if sold hot.

 

[Bobby22]

Just one question...................if you pay £50,000 (total price) for a motorhome...........would you let it go for £40,000 two years later?

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[Judge Mental]

Bit of a strange question...all depends on lots of things, impossible to guess. Drive a uk van round the block and try to trade it back to dealer you will get a hell of a lot less than that!lol