Autotrail woes (2 Viewers)

[knokinonabit]

I pleased that you have things sorted at last, I must say this poor service from autotrail has not been my experience, I hope for others buying similar aged autotrails that your experience was a “one of” and not an example of more modern built quality. Its interesting what you say about the step, mine goes in when I turn the ignition on (a safety thing) but I cant extend it with the fob, do you mean that when you lock/un lock with the fob the step comes out/retracts and the light comes on automatically, if so this seams far too over complicated for the sake of it, whatever happed to keep thing simple (and they then work). So what are you going to do now, enjoy it, worry about what’s going to fall of next or sell it while its working

Good luck........

The step works off the key fob when you are parked and lock/unlock the hab door with the button. The hab door can be locked with the key, but the step will remain in the position it was in, ie in or out. The step also retracts automatically when you start the engine and a warning buzzer sounds until it is fully retracted. The awning light also comes on when the hab door is locked/unlocked with the button on the key fob. There is also a button inside the door entrance to operate the step manually. The automatic operation can be switched off at the control panel to stop the step going in and out when you are on site and lock the door. When it all works, that is

As to your last question. A bit of enjoyment while worrying about what will fall off next

 

[knokinonabit]

Thank you to all who replied and offered advice, sympathy, opinions be it good or bad.
Please don't argue amongst yourselves with personal insults etc., it just isn't worth it.

I have no axe to grind with ANY dealer, rather with the manufacturer. I am aware of who the contract is with, but the bill eventually goes to the manufacturer, I believe. I am sure I will be corrected if I am wrong, and accept that.
This thread was meant to highlight the faults that have occurred with my particular motorhome, although, along the way, others have expressed having similar faults/problems. Others have had no problems what so ever, and I am truly pleased for them.

It should have no bearing on the quality of the motorhome that it had come by way of bankrupt stock.
It was still a new, unused vehicle, subject to the same quality controls and warranty as any other from the Auto-Trail factory. The fact that it has fallen short of the expected standard is a manufacture problem, not a price problem.
Looking back it would seem that some of the things that have been faulty are not manufactured by Auto-Trail, but also, some are. So a serious look at quality control from outside suppliers, and their own in-house construction, may be the solution if they are to have any kind of credible reputation.

This has been a stressful experience for myself and my wife, and one that I hope no-one else has to go through. Unfortunately, with the industry seemingly free to do as it will, I don't think we will be the last.
I now have absolutely no faith in the motorhome what so ever, and every time we use it I am just waiting for something else to fail.

Once again, thank you for all of your input.

 

[robnchris]

Knokinonabit`s mail is heartfelt honesty, all this talk of your point of repair is with the dealer wether legally right is just morally wrong.

Why should a dealer be responsible for the poor quality from the manufacturer, why should the dealer be responsible for a poorly designed door frame that has a history of breaking or any of the other endless list of fittings the manufacturer choose to fit one would assume they checked them out to see if they were suitable.
Autotrail fitted those dreadful radios in the cabs, we are on our third and the motorhome is only 12 months old the second one didn`t work when the dealer fitted it, even though it was out of the box straight from the factory, certified as checked out 100% ok.
Autotrail have now ceased to deal with that company and fit a different unit but nothing has been in done in the way of a recall like in the motor industry, instead it`s two fingers once again to the customer.

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[TheDogMan]

I have never heard a bad word said about Johns Cross on here and I have to say the dealer service/aftercare is more important to me than the price, I always used Rugby Caravans when tugging and yes sometimes paid more than a dealer 50 miles away but I knew that the manager Adrian and the service manager would look after me and they did. A friend of mine turned up with a newish AT bought from Newark , it was a present from her husband to replace a smaller Hobby van, a few months later she discovered it severe damp offside below the window behind the driver, I was 4 weeks out of AT warranty and the dealer would not even talk them about it even though she was told it was a known weakness, AT were not interested so she was left on her own, the dealer warranty excluded damp in the very small print and they just stonewalled her.

 

[robnchris]

But you would not have to and should not have to with a Motorhome either. Your contract is with the supplying dealer. That's it, finish, full stop. They are your only point of contact and should adress matters to your satisfaction. It's their arse that should be kicked. You should have no dealings with the manufacturter. Only the dealer has redress with the manufacturer.

Whilst what you say is no doubt legally correct that`s not the point we are making.
We are saying why should the dealers have to clean up and put right what the manufacturer couldn`t get right whilst building the motorhome.
The manufacturer should have some quality control and clearly don`t as so many motorhomes leave the factory with the most obvious of faults.

 

[Sunsets Unlimited.]

We have bought an Autotrail Comanche 3 weeks ago and traded in our 2011 Elddis 155.
The Comanche is also 2011 but has been unsold until we came along.
We did get it for a very reasonable price and to be fair 2 of the faults were pointed out to us with the promise of repair.
One was a crack in the habitation door handle mounting caused by people tugging at the door (allegedly) and the other was the drivers door blind mounting coming adrift. It has now come so adrift that if you open the drivers door the blind falls out.
Both the leisure battery and the vehicle battery have died (both replaced straight away).
The gas bottle locker catches are secured by plastic cable ties. one snapped at the first time of using and I had to grovel around with a long screwdriver to open the door from under the MH. Apparently this is the way they are all fastened !!!!!!!
The fresh and grey water taps are leaking (waiting for new ones).
The fresh water tank had a lot of plastic swarfe, from where the holes were cut for the pipes to fit, and I had to flush them out.
Reversing camera cuts out intermitantly when reversing (needs new camera head)
The water pump was exceptionaly noisy because the filter bowl was rattling off the pipes and its mounting points (rectified).
The light switch for the main hab lights only works when it feels like it (worked in the workshop, so they can't find a fault !!!!!).
Various info books are missing so I am downloading them from the appropriate web sites as I can't wait for the dealer to "find" them.

Just to add insult to injury, the Fiat reversing judder is very prominent, so this will mean a visit to my local Iveco dealer and more delays.

Other than that, we are very pleased with it, the one time that we have been able to use it. Hopefully all the bits will arrive from Autotrail and we can have a fully functioning MH to enjoy.

Hmmmmm, I'm sorry to hear of your problems with the Auto-trail. We bought our Ducato Cheyenne in 2009 and has been as good as Gold. Like Funster Jaws, our step buggered about for some time and the hab water pump packed up couple of months ago which has sinse been replaced. We wouldn't have another mark,that's for sure.!

The reverse gear judder you speak of, seems to be common in vehicles with the manual gearbox. I presume this is what you have? Before we bought ours, I read about this problem which really is the fact that reverse is just to high a gear for the application. We had ours delivered with the electronically operated clutch and box. With this, you do not suffer that problem. You say you are going to Iveco, what chassis is yours on.?

Mike.
SunsetsUnlimited.

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[knokinonabit]

I know it might be a bit of a chore Sunsets unlimited, but if you read (trawl ?) through the full thread you will find all of the information.
It is a Fiat X250 from 2011 with the manual box.
Fiats recommendation to stop the judder is to use more revs and let the clutch slip more.
Personally, I use tickover and clutch control and that seems to work.

 

[Speve]

Our 2013 Tracker with manual is great no judders at all although we did go for the 150 engine which has loads of power,we have taken about a twelve months to sort out the teething problems but as I and others have said before Autotrail needs to get their ship in order and carry out proper pre delivery inspections this would save a lot of hassle and stress to future buyers of a good van when sorted.

 

[SuperMike]

Whilst what you say is no doubt legally correct that`s not the point we are making.
We are saying why should the dealers have to clean up and put right what the manufacturer couldn`t get right whilst building the motorhome.
The manufacturer should have some quality control and clearly don`t as so many motorhomes leave the factory with the most obvious of faults.

Who cares what the dealer has to do. That's their problem. If they don't like what a particular manufacturer supplies them with, then they should take their business elsewhere. Our only concern is what we are supplied with and that is down to the dealer.

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[Sunsets Unlimited.]

I know it might be a bit of a chore Sunsets unlimited, but if you read (trawl ?) through the full thread you will find all of the information.
It is a Fiat X250 from 2011 with the manual box.
Fiats recommendation to stop the judder is to use more revs and let the clutch slip more.
Personally, I use tickover and clutch control and that seems to work.

This is just a flying visit but I have read quite a few articles on clutch judder in the Fiats and know a reasonable amount about clutches and how they should be used to achieve longevity.

For Fiat and any manufacturer to recommend slipping the clutch, only spells disaster for the owner. In my estimation, Your approach is about right. But the problem really is with this vehicle/gearing, it is just too high. I bet your 1st gear is quite high too. Am I right or wrong.? I look forward to seeing what you say.!

Regards
Mike
SunsetsUnlimited.

 

[Gorse Hill]

Who cares what the dealer has to do. That's their problem. If they don't like what a particular manufacturer supplies them with, then they should take their business elsewhere. Our only concern is what we are supplied with and that is down to the dealer.

Surely it's down to the manufacture to provide a vechicle to a required standard for the dealer to sell, am not so sure it's that easy for dealer to change supplier not only from a logistics point of view but in terms of confidence from a customer view point

 

[Sunsets Unlimited.]

Surely it's down to the manufacture to provide a vechicle to a required standard for the dealer to sell, am not so sure it's that easy for dealer to change supplier not only from a logistics point of view but in terms of confidence from a customer view point

Trouble is the manufacturer builds a unit which has cross a full range of vehicles undertaking umpteen applications. When comes to our usage (motorhoming) we require a base vehicle which will give the user economy, ummmmmph up hills and a good cruising speed. To achieve this his gearbox has to have a highend top gear, and so it suffers when in the reverse gear.! 1st and reverse being on the same lay shaft. Am sure I got that right.!!!!?

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[Gorse Hill]

Trouble is the manufacturer builds a unit which has cross a full range of vehicles undertaking umpteen applications. When comes to our usage (motorhoming) we require a base vehicle which will give the user economy, ummmmmph up hills and a good cruising speed. To achieve this his gearbox has to have a highend top gear, and so it suffers when in the reverse gear.! 1st and reverse being on the same lay shaft. Am sure I got that right.!!!!?

Yes I agree and fiat have addressed the problem ( mines last year model) and no problems so far, and if am not mistaken other manufactures from the serval stable have not been so helpful
Fiat response is in stark contrast to A/T who are still suppling vechicles with the same problem

 

[Peter JohnsCross MH]

Might be worth a read for the future

http://www.auto-trail.co.uk/why-we-chose-fiat

or

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/fiat/ducato

 

[Gorse Hill]

Yes agreed Peter, fiat have targeted the M/H market and developed a chassis to suit that's why there very proactive if they do have problems and probably why most M/H manufactures have chosen them as there base vechicle

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[knokinonabit]

This is just a flying visit but I have read quite a few articles on clutch judder in the Fiats and know a reasonable amount about clutches and how they should be used to achieve longevity.

For Fiat and any manufacturer to recommend slipping the clutch, only spells disaster for the owner. In my estimation, Your approach is about right. But the problem really is with this vehicle/gearing, it is just too high. I bet your 1st gear is quite high too. Am I right or wrong.? I look forward to seeing what you say.!

Regards
Mike
SunsetsUnlimited.

Sorry I've taken so long to reply, had loads of other stuff going on just now.

Spookily, first gear is way too low. If I accelerate a bit on the spirited side it will spin the front wheels easily.
If the road is a bit damp it does it in second as well.
Reverse is way too high geared on mine and as I understand it, Fiat have started fitting a lower reverse gear.

 

[knokinonabit]

Might be worth a read for the future

http://www.auto-trail.co.uk/why-we-chose-fiat

or

Broken Link Removed

The Fiat part of the MH, apart from the reverse judder, which I have adapted to and learned to live with, is the bit that I am most happy with.
This is from someone who once vowed never to have anything that was made by Fiat ever again, after owning an exceptionally bad Fiat car.
We live and learn.

 

[Fatwheels]

I ordered a new autotrail in October at the nec for delivery March aprill ordered 2 extra travelling seat belts so it has 6 in total plus a few extra extras went to pick it up the other week having paid in full walked in to have a look at it and behold salesman had forgotten to order the extra belts it only had 4 no good to me as I have 3 kids long story short manager went mental dealer took full responsibility left an hour later with a full refund and reordered for next March delivery as the earliest they can build a new one is October and who wants that so it can just sit there all winter

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[Allanm]

I ordered a new autotrail in October at the nec for delivery March aprill ordered 2 extra travelling seat belts so it has 6 in total plus a few extra extras went to pick it up the other week having paid in full walked in to have a look at it and behold salesman had forgotten to order the extra belts it only had 4 no good to me as I have 3 kids long story short manager went mental dealer took full responsibility left an hour later with a full refund and reordered for next March delivery as the earliest they can build a new one is October and who wants that so it can just sit there all winter

That's a long time to wait, but we would have had the one in October and use it all Winter. They are too expensive to use for just half a year. We are away in ours all year round
Allan

 

[Fatwheels]

We have to work round school holidays so we figured we would of only used it a couple of weekends so even though we were bitterly disappointed we thought it was the best solution waiting till March for the new registration as effectively we are getting a 2016 motorhome for the 2014 price

 

[Sunsets Unlimited.]

Sorry I've taken so long to reply, had loads of other stuff going on just now.

Spookily, first gear is way too low. If I accelerate a bit on the spirited side it will spin the front wheels easily.
If the road is a bit damp it does it in second as well.
Reverse is way too high geared on mine and as I understand it, Fiat have started fitting a lower reverse gear.

Am surprised at a way too low 1st gear.
Our Cheyenne is fitted with the electrically operated box, so do not get clutch judder. If Fiat are now fitting a lower reverse gear, take yours to Fiat main dealer and see if they can change yours, it will save you loads of drive-line problems in the future. That's not from a know it all, that's from a person who has some experience with clutches and gearboxes.

Best of Luck.

Mike.
SunsetsUnlimited.

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[knokinonabit]

Unfortunately it isn't possible to fit a different gear, so no fix is available.
Fiats advice is to slip the clutch more when reversing.

 

[robnchris]

Unfortunately it isn't possible to fit a different gear, so no fix is available.
Fiats advice is to slip the clutch more when reversing.

Not the best of advice to be given slipping a clutch, all the more time to burn it out me thinks.
We have the Same 3 ltr. engine in our Arapaho, on finding it had the reverse judder problem, diagnosed by fiat but told there was nothing they could do about as they only had a fix for the 2.3ltr engine.
We took it back to where we bought it from and gave him the keys, after a lot of discussion he agreed to guarantee the gearbox and clutch for 3 yrs and if we had any problems they would pick up the bill, I insisted on having that in writing and left dealership with a smile on my face.
Peace of mind that if I had any problems they would pay for it.
Needless to say as soon as the 3yrs was up I sold the motorhome.

 

[f6c]

Well Done Rob n Chris Smart Move

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[knokinonabit]

It is actually so high geared in reverse that I am usually on tickover anyway, as well as slipping the clutch.
Fiat actually said, via my local Iveco dealer who I had taken it to, that they would replace any parts as they were aware of the problem.
They didn't put a time scale on it.
Yes, that is in writing and is on my service record at the dealer.
Funnily enough, the Fiat bit has been the best part of the motorhome, even with the judder.
Watch it all go t**s up now I've said that

 

[Neilfg]

Having read this post I keep wondering if you (@knokinonabit) ever tried to just hand back the van as not fit or defective and request a refund from the dealer and if not why not? As i think i would have.

I hope that the issues remaining are minimal and that you are getting some enjoyable use out of the van at last.

 

[knokinonabit]

It got to the Trading Standards stage, but as they pointed out, all of the faults were promised to be rectified under warranty.
It dragged on for so long it reached the stage where I had had the MH too long to say it wasn't fit for purpose, as I was still using it.
All of the faults didn't happen at once, so everything has been quite strung out, making it more difficult to just hand it back and demand my money back.
Perhaps I was a little naïve in the first place, perhaps wearing rose tinted glasses and hoping everything would be alright, or perhaps I was too nice a person to cause a fuss.
As it is, I have learned a lot from this event and would certainly be demanding my money back from day one, should I ever be in a similar position again. Which is highly unlikely as I would never buy a motorhome again, new or second hand. Once bitten, twice shy.

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[Daveo2006]

I have just read through your story Knockinonabit and really feel for you as i had problems in the beginning but nothing on the scale of yours. I had a few teething problems with our 1st motorhome but all was sorted eventually. The problems were all down to the dealer who was a long way from us.After being on this forum for a while now and having the MH nearly 3 years we decided it wasn't the right layout for us so it has gone. Guess what ? we have bought a nice shiny Auto trail Apache which we are very excited about getting next week (hopefully). What pleases me more is we only went and bought it from John Cross who helped us out with taking on any warranty work needed on the last van ( although nothing popped up) so as we didn't need to drive up to Glossop in Derbyshire to deal with a poor dealership.

 

[old1]

With my Autotrail problems I am glad I went straight to the factory, at least they cant pass the issue on to anyone else..
I had an extra issue just as it was due to go in to them, fan on the toilet stopped working. I checked power and it seemed to be just a faulty fan.. They refitted a brand new toilet. !!!

My Dealer was a waste of time, in fact, to this day they have never been in touch or replied to my messages from December 2012 !! Shame on Leisure kingdom Derby. !!

Our salesman at LK Derby last words as he took our money was "any problem at all" call me & I will personally sort it.
Guess what when I tried to call him, the girl at reception would only put me through to after sales, even after I insisted that I wanted the salesman, but no after sales it was, 2 months later still awaiting part.

 

[Daveo2006]

Mountain and Muhammad come to mind.

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