Anti motorhome policy in the UK (1 Viewer)

[GJH]

The point is that height barriers DO stop motorhomes

Yes, but that is incidental to the reason for their being there. There would be no spaces for motorhomes if they weren't there as they would be filled with the other vehicle types.

with reference to business rates, the point was inarticulately expressed, my meaning was that with the ever increasing costs to the high street shops and some local councils adding to this by increasing local car parking charges, why would they not encourage motorhomes or rather their occupants (i know you like to be pedantic from using local shops and facilities.

In most cases because they have either had to install barriers as discussed or the car arks are not suitable for heavy vehicles.

 

[GJH]

I think you have at least one myth Graham, I would like to think it is some people.

I started a thread earlier this year to try to discover the facts.I can't remember the title but it will probably be found using search. My comment was based on the replies to that thread.

 

[mjltigger]

So here's my take. Right or wrong...

In the UK the big influencers on local decision making are large national chains like the supermarkets, Dixon's, Ikea etc etc. Making decisions on a national level. They want good local transport so that regular customers from the local or regional area can get to their stores.

In France the decision makers are more local. Rather than being in partnership with the next county because there is the same mix of national chains they are in competition with them.. we want people to come to our town not go to the next town because money spent in the next town goes there not here. So in France the pressure is on to get visitors from outside to come in and spend money, in the UK the pressure is to keep local people local so the money can be soaked out of the community

Likewise, in France Romanies are quaint possibly mildly locally irritating for a while but migratory people who pass through and maybe make a bit of a nuisance but do a days work when it's needed or set up a source of entertainment for a short while. They aren't necessarily welcome but they aren't a disaster. In the UK they come and they set up and they refuse to move on. They don't have a migratory pattern and once they find a suitable site they won't leave it empty in case it is built on or blocked off to prevent their return. So the French don't have the same fear and loathing present in some communities and local authorities in the UK.

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[GJH]

On final comment before I go out.

We can complain about anti-motorhome policies (real or imagined) on here until we are blue in the face and it won't make a blind bit of difference because very few councillors and council officers are members.

Alternatively we can do something positive and approach councils where we can identify a potential aire site. Nobody else will do that so it is in our own hands.

 

[EzeeRider]

So here's my take. Right or wrong...

Likewise, in France Romanies are quaint possibly mildly locally irritating for a while but migratory people who pass through and maybe make a bit of a nuisance but do a days work when it's needed or set up a source of entertainment for a short while. They aren't necessarily welcome but they aren't a disaster. In the UK they come and they set up and they refuse to move on. They don't have a migratory pattern and once they find a suitable site they won't leave it empty in case it is built on or blocked off to prevent their return. So the French don't have the same fear and loathing present in some communities and local authorities in the UK.

The French police also take a tougher line and don't mess about when they want to move undesirables on.
Ezee

 

[Speve]

We stopped off in Durdledor Back in the summer you could park over night in the quay car park for a fiver sounds good until you read the small print a fiver for each bay you take up,well I thought this was reasonable until I read further to find that cars parked for free all night,talk about rubbing salt into it!
It's almost victimisation of motorhomers
We were happy to pay a fiver but moved on and wild camped on Exmoor as felt we were being taken advantage of by the council.

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[Vlad The Impaler]

Yes, but that is incidental to the reason for their being there. There would be no spaces for motorhomes if they weren't there as they would be filled with the other vehicle types.

Vlad said

What? If there were no height barriers smaller vehicles would take the places of bigger vehicles that couldn't get in!
Or are you referring to the lack of control the LA have over the travelling community?

2.Height barriers are seldom, if ever, installed on car parks to stop motorhomes using them. Normally it is to stop any vehicles heavier than 2 tonnes, commercial vehicles or nuisance unauthorised camp sites.




Vlad said.



This is a myth ,any car park built will easily take a vehicle of over 2 tonnes.My drive was laid in 65 mm blocks (not 100 mm ) over 5 years ago, my van is just under 4 tonnes and my fully loaded work van is on and off it daily .Its still un - rutted and un-damaged.
A properly laid Tarmac car park with its layers of Tarmac and sub base would be far superior!
Given that most car parks are used by cars,any specific bays would be used by a small percentage of the total volume of traffic! So the 2 tonnes argument is Bollox !
Another myth is the great cost to local councils to provide facilities.
Assuming there's a water supply within within 100 m or so and a fowl pipe run or manhole close by,which there is in 90 %. of urban areas and in most car,lorry ,bus or car parks the cost would be minimal !

Now Graham I know you are on a par with Google when it comes to information and factual points,but take it from me someone in the know your points on cost,weight and barriers don't add up .



Vlad

 

[buttons]

If we buy a car we still have to pay for parking, I dont see why some believe a motorhome should be any different (-;

 

[stcyr]

At least Welshpool's got the right idea - overnight parking is free for motorhomes and hgv's, in the huge central carpark, near shops, and big Tesco just a couple of hundred yards walk away, and all night toilet. We spent many a comfortable night there when we used to drive regularly between Derbyshire and west Wales... And 'travellers' were never a problem.

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[Tootles]

Why would you want to stay in England anyway, when you can be in france parking for free, get your ferry back in 3or 4 nights, nicer people, food , culture, more space on the roads, no competition

Because it isn't full of Frenchmen......Yet.

 

[jezport]

St Annes in Lancashire has a sea front car park that permits motorhome parking.

As a country that has probably the most entrepreneurial people in the world it is crazy that we dont cater for motorhomes properly. Even in winter months I regularly see plenty of vans on the road and think that there are so many small towns that are struggling to keep businesses trading which could benefit from the trade.

 

[jongood]

For us - its not about money its about convenience and location.

We are in our fifties not quite retired with a decent income and eat out 2-3 times per week and are able to go away for over 100 nights per year. I would say that we fit the target pretty well.

We want to be close to the town/tourist attraction/beach so that we can passs in and out for shopping eating etc, so we can visit/enjoythe scenery of the place we came to see.

We dont want to be stuck behind hedges 10 miles away from it - and by the way if you didnt book it 3 months ago - forget it.

We re currently looking at going for a few days xmas shopping ( we have a large family to buy for) You would think York would be a good place but try getting on Rowntree park. Ok - lets look at London - Crystal palace? not ideal but no chance anyway.

So Bruges it is!! we re going to spend as much as on a site but we can walk in and out from the aire and once we get across the channel everything is cheaper and easier.

This is why we spend most of our holidays outside the UK. UK is too restricted.

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[scotjimland]

I started a thread earlier this year to try to discover the facts.

there you go mate

http://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/do-we-motorhomers-really-boost-the-economy.90211/

 

[GJH]

GJH said: Broken Link Removed
Yes, but that is incidental to the reason for their being there. There would be no spaces for motorhomes if they weren't there as they would be filled with the other vehicle types.

Vlad said

What? If there were no height barriers smaller vehicles would take the places of bigger vehicles that couldn't get in!
Or are you referring to the lack of control the LA have over the travelling community?

You answer that point in the subsequent quote.

GJH said: Broken Link Removed
2.Height barriers are seldom, if ever, installed on car parks to stop motorhomes using them. Normally it is to stop any vehicles heavier than 2 tonnes, commercial vehicles or nuisance unauthorised camp sites.

Vlad said.
This is a myth ,any car park built will easily take a vehicle of over 2 tonnes.My drive was laid in 65 mm blocks (not 100 mm ) over 5 years ago, my van is just under 4 tonnes and my fully loaded work van is on and off it daily .Its still un - rutted and un-damaged.
A properly laid Tarmac car park with its layers of Tarmac and sub base would be far superior!
Given that most car parks are used by cars,any specific bays would be used by a small percentage of the total volume of traffic! So the 2 tonnes argument is Bollox !

No Vlad, no myth and no bollox. If you had worked with local authority parking departments, as I have, you would know that there are different standards and many of our car parks (especially those built decades ago) are not built to stand use by heavy vehicles. If you don't believe me ask your local council.

Another myth is the great cost to local councils to provide facilities.
Assuming there's a water supply within within 100 m or so and a fowl pipe run or manhole close by,which there is in 90 %. of urban areas and in most car,lorry ,bus or car parks the cost would be minimal !

Now Graham I know you are on a par with Google when it comes to information and factual points,but take it from me someone in the know your points on cost,weight and barriers don't add up .

Vlad

The operative word here is "assuming". We can all assume what suits us, which is why I said in my original post on this thread "evidence based figures not assumptions". Present your local council with figures with a real basis in fact and you might have a chance, otherwise very little chance.

 

[GJH]

This thread is going the way those on this subject normally do.

I've given my point of view but if people choose not to believe that change will only come about if motorhomers put in the effort themselves then so be it. Please prove me wrong by doing nothing. I look forward to seeing the hundreds of aires which result from that

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[Wyaye wires]

The MCC also has a number of CLs (some called Nightstops) and they are open to all. Fun also has a couple of CLs.

But what if you don't like cricket Graham???

 

[GJH]

But what if you don't like cricket Graham???

Don't eat them, simple.

 

[GJH]

We stopped off in Durdledor Back in the summer you could park over night in the quay car park for a fiver sounds good until you read the small print a fiver for each bay you take up,well I thought this was reasonable until I read further to find that cars parked for free all night,talk about rubbing salt into it!
It's almost victimisation of motorhomers
We were happy to pay a fiver but moved on and wild camped on Exmoor as felt we were being taken advantage of by the council.

Assuming you mean Durdle Door, are you sure it was a council car park? I thought all car parks in Durdle Door and Lulworth were privately owned by the Lulworth Estate. Dorset CC lists no council car parks in the area.

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[Barclaybasher]

As a country that has probably the most entrepreneurial people in the world it is crazy that we dont cater for motorhomes properly.

...........


Entrepreneurs open campsites, create CLs or join Britstops - they do not work for local authorities.

Like it or not Motorhomers are a very small part of the economy and Motorhomers will not rank high when parking is provided - perhaps considered a little more in 'tourist' areas - but will face objections from campsite owners and residents fearing an invasion of 'Travelers'

The Caravan Club or C&C Club - if they were truly interested in facilities for members - could provide a platform for change in parking/aires - but it's a bit like asking turkeys to vote for Christmas





.............

 

[chaser]

Assuming you mean Durdle Door, are you sure it was a council car park? I thought all car parks in Durdle Door and Lulworth were privately owned by the Lulworth Estate. Dorset CC lists no council car parks in the area.

Wasn't the firing range was it

 

[GJH]

Entrepreneurs open campsites, create CLs or join Britstops - they do not work for local authorities.

And, as oft said in the past, if there were a viable business opportunity they would open aires close to town centres. So why don't they?

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[2657]

Reading some of the posts on this thread I wonder if some did any research at all before purchasing a motorhome, very often at a large cost.

A simple analysis along the lines of what do I want a motorhome for? What is available for me to do this? It would not take much research to ascertain that in the UK if you do not want to use sites of some sort then your options will be limited.

Why should the rest of the population bend over backwards to provide us, a minority, with the facilities that some seem to think is a right?

To many people a motorhome is just another large,luxury vehicle causing an obstruction.

I am well aware of what is available on the continent and what happens over there.

 

[mjltigger]

Here is the thing... i dont think I want something provided for me, what I want is some of the layers of anti traveller laws and by laws either removed or clarified to show they don't apply to leisure vehicles stopping for 1 night where it is convenient. I'm pretty sure it will never happen though. We bought our camper to use in France and I have been really surprised by how much we actually have used it in the UK. Some of that use hasn't strictly adhered to local legislation but we haven't made a mess or caused a nuisance and so far we haven't upset anyone or been asked to move on. As many of us already do, the trick is to be the change you want to see

 

[Tootles]

I thought all car parks in Durdle Door and Lulworth were privately owned by the Lulworth Estate.

Correct.

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[Allanm]

This thread is going the way those on this subject normally do.

I've given my point of view but if people choose not to believe that change will only come about if motorhomers put in the effort themselves then so be it. Please prove me wrong by doing nothing. I look forward to seeing the hundreds of aires which result from that

I don't remember anyone petitioning for an Aire in Canterbury ( there are actually 2 there) yet they still came into being. (I worked at Canterbury Council when it was planned)
We regularly use the park and ride as we live close by, and when we walk past the aire, it is mainly occupied by foreign registered vehicles, so it was not just built for fleeing UK vans.
I always feel sorry for visitors to this country looking for somewhere to stay, and we rarely travel in the UK for the same reason.
The last time we used the Motorhome here, we stayed in a CS at a cost of £18 a night!
We won't be doing that again anytime soon.
It's the UK's attitude to anything leisure based that stops anything but shops, fast food outlets and Harvester restaurants being built on any spare land. That and the thought that travellers will take over and occupy everything that isn't built for shopping.
That's why we travel almost exclusively in Europe and have bought a house in France.
The UK is great, but not very friendly to anything or anybody who doesn't comply with the "norm"
Allan

 

[SMB]

I go back to England to get the van MOT'D, otherwise I wouldn't bother

 

[magicsurfbus]

Entrepreneurs open campsites, create CLs or join Britstops - they do not work for local authorities.

A good point, and probably true in practice, but a little unfair to those in local authorities who want to be innovative but find themselves bound by rules, regulations, short-term thinking and auditors. From the other related thread it sounds like the guy at Canterbury is trying to be innovative and dare I say entrepreneurial, but I bet he's had to wade through a hell of a lot of red tape in the process. I've worked for local authorities for most of my life and still do, and the red tape drives me scatty at times, even when I make suggestions to save costs or generate new income.

There simply wouldn't be a network of CLs if it wasn't earning the landowners (often farmers) enough to make it worth the effort. If it works for them, why don't local authorities (as landowners) adopt the same thinking and act the same way? Probably too many rules, vested interests, and political considerations to overcome.

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[magicsurfbus]

Why should the rest of the population bend over backwards to provide us, a minority, with the facilities that some seem to think is a right?

It's not the rest of the population so much as those who have the vision and imagination to think that any boost to local tourism might bring extra money into the area, even if it's just through parking fees. I've never considered low cost overnight MH parking to be my 'right' either here or abroad, but the fact that it's available abroad makes me spend more time (and money) over there.

 

[Tootles]

A good point, and probably true in practice, but a little unfair to those in local authorities who want to be innovative but find themselves bound by rules, regulations, short-term thinking and auditors. From the other related thread it sounds like the guy at Canterbury is trying to be innovative and dare I say entrepreneurial, but I bet he's had to wade through a hell of a lot of red tape in the process. I've worked for local authorities for most of my life and still do, and the red tape drives me scatty at times, even when I make suggestions to save costs or generate new income.

There simply wouldn't be a network of CLs if it wasn't earning the landowners (often farmers) enough to make it worth the effort. If it works for them, why don't local authorities (as landowners) adopt the same thinking and act the same way? Probably too many rules, vested interests, and political considerations to overcome.

I suppose the question is this. If you want to stay at a bum hotel for 3d a night, well, a couple did that in Blackpool last week. I don't mind paying for quality...After all, why ruin a perfect day by being hassled by noobs all night, or not being 100% happy as you nod off.....Piece of mind, at the end of each touring day, is worth the outlay on a nice site.

 

[GJH]

I don't remember anyone petitioning for an Aire in Canterbury ( there are actually 2 there) yet they still came into being. (I worked at Canterbury Council when it was planned)

I'm sure you are right Allan but Canterbury P&R has its unique geographic advantage compared to other places (the coach park pricing of £15 for 12 hours isn't really set up to attract motorhomes is it? )

There simply wouldn't be a network of CLs if it wasn't earning the landowners (often farmers) enough to make it worth the effort. If it works for them, why don't local authorities (as landowners) adopt the same thinking and act the same way? Probably too many rules, vested interests, and political considerations to overcome.

Seeing posts from several CL owners over the years I don't think they earn a vast amount but it may well provide an income from land not worth using for other purposes. Do local authorities own such unused land in suitable locations? Blackpool, for instance, made specific provision for daytime parking of motorhomes near the football ground but is that suitable for overnighting so close to the town centre nightlife?

Sometimes there are "rules", as Scarborough found in the shape of long standing planning policy. There are also political considerations, as Weymouth are currently experiencing in balancing/overcoming objections of local caravan sites.

I've worked for local authorities for most of my life and still do, and the red tape drives me scatty at times, even when I make suggestions to save costs or generate new income.

I worked in LAs as well so know the problems but, faced with the above obstacles LAs often do not have the resources these days to undertake the work needed to make progress.

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