Rant: Fiat 5-day Parts Ordering Policy (1 Viewer)

maz

Jan 26, 2011
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I am not happy for a number of reasons:

1. Last Monday I took the van into the Fiat garage in Worcester as booked to have an oil leak from the cam cover repaired under warranty. This had been diagnosed 10 days earlier on the Friday of the previous week. However because of Fiat's policy that garages can only order parts 5 days before they're needed (otherwise the parts cannot be returned if not needed), when I went in on Monday it was to be told that one part was still outstanding and wouldn't be in until Wednesday. I was not pleased, especially as I had camped out on the garage forecourt overnight so that the engine would be cold to work on first thing in the morning. :Angry: As a few parts had been ordered I suggested they go ahead with the work anyway as maybe the missing part would not be required and then I could be out of there. Lucky I did because once bits had been dismantled it turned out that the oil leak was coming from the head gasket and not the cam cover. So it was arranged that I would return the following Monday for the gasket to be replaced, stressing that this time the required part needed to be ordered in plenty of time.

2. Today I got a phone call from the garage service manager. It seems that the head gasket on my van could be any one of three - depending on the number of notches on it. One version was in stock so no problem, the other two weren't even available in this country. So guess what? - they wouldn't be in until Wednesday. Sense of deja vu here? :RollEyes:

3. They will not know until they take the cylinder head off which of the three versions of gasket will actually be required. To me this seems bizarre. Could Fiat not have recorded against the chassis number which gasket they had used when building the engine? Who will give me odds on the in-stock gasket being the right one for my engine? Also I have now been told that the cylinder head will have to be sent away to be skimmed before a new gasket is put in place. This normally just takes 24 hours to turnaround so should be back on the Wednesday. Somehow I just don't feel terribly confident about given timescales anymore. :Sad: And this is in a van that's only just done 5,000 miles for f*** sake!

4. I have already booked a night in a B&B for Monday night. Now I have had to add in one for Tuesday night as well. B&Bs around Worcester are not cheap and I have had to track down ones that will take dogs. It's quite likely that I'll also have to book one for Wednesday night. :RollEyes:

5. I asked the service manager for a contact number for Fiat customer service - the only one he has is the International Freephone 00800 number for customer service in Italy. I can't ring 00800 numbers from a BT phone box. I'm not ringing expensive international calls from my mobile. I find a 'Chat' option on the Fiat website - the person I get to chat to suggests I phone or e-mail instead. :RollEyes: I find a 'Call Me Back Now' option on the same site - I fill in all my details and 2.5 hours later I'm still waiting for that phone call. :Angry: Only option left is to e-mail them - but I wanted to talk to an actual person! Today! I want to bend their ear and point out that their silly 5-day policy is not in the customer's interest. I want them to pay for my B&Bs. I want a year's free supply of tiramisu!
 

pappajohn

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Aug 26, 2007
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notches on a head gasket generally denote just one thing........how much, if ever, the head has been skimmed after gasket failure.

Skimming ensures the cylinder head is truly flat and involves removing a miniscule amount of metal.....maybe just 5 or 10 thousandths of an inch.

That metal is replaced in the form of a slightly thicker head gasket, usually in three stages of thickness depending how much metal was removed......3 being the thickest.
 
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maz

maz

Jan 26, 2011
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notches on a head gasket generally denote just one thing........how much, if ever, the head has been skimmed after gasket failure.

Skimming ensures the cylinder head is truly flat and involves removing a miniscule amount of metal.....maybe just 5 or 10 thousandths of an inch.

That metal is replaced in the form of a slightly thicker head gasket, usually in three stages of thickness depending how much metal was removed......3 being the thickest.

So in theory my engine shouldn't need anything other than the thinnest gasket. Wonder if that's the one that's in stock?

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Ambilkate

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Jul 15, 2009
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Oh Maz so sorry to hear this if you had have been closer to us you could have stayed with us.. Hope this gets sorted quicky for you
 

pappajohn

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So in theory my engine shouldn't need anything other than the thinnest gasket. Wonder if that's the one that's in stock?

problem is they are skimming the head so it will need an 'oversized' gasket and the thickness depends how much metal is removed.

Maybe Fiat do something different but thats what the notches generally mean,

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davejen

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Aug 21, 2008
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It seems pisspotical that FIAT workshops don't keep at least 1 of each gasket in stock, replacing as used, afterall the expense can't be that much, can it?

Cheers, Dave:thumb:

ps, think of the GOODWILL it might encourage!!!
 
Last edited:
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maz

maz

Jan 26, 2011
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Have just indulged in a spot of googling and found the Fiat Ducato Course Online: http://library.docent.isvor.it/uplo...cia Didattica Fiat Ducato seconda fase_GB.pdf .

From p14:

The gasket between cylinder head and
crankcase is composed of three layers
of stainless steel coated
with special heat-resistant rubber material.
While head gaskets of three different thicknesses are
used at the factory, replacement gaskets come in
one standard thickness only. Factory gaskets are differentiated by notches as follows
- 1 notch : thickness class 1
- 2 notches: thickness class 2
- 3 notches: thickness class 3

So not massively useful as to explaining why there are 3 thicknesses of gasket used in the factory. But if replacement gaskets only come in one standard thickness, why is the garage trying to order in 3 different ones? :Confused:

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Oct 1, 2007
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I am not happy for a number of reasons:

1. Last Monday I took the van into the Fiat garage in Worcester as booked to have an oil leak from the cam cover repaired under warranty. This had been diagnosed 10 days earlier on the Friday of the previous week. However because of Fiat's policy that garages can only order parts 5 days before they're needed (otherwise the parts cannot be returned if not needed), when I went in on Monday it was to be told that one part was still outstanding and wouldn't be in until Wednesday. I was not pleased, especially as I had camped out on the garage forecourt overnight so that the engine would be cold to work on first thing in the morning. :Angry: As a few parts had been ordered I suggested they go ahead with the work anyway as maybe the missing part would not be required and then I could be out of there. Lucky I did because once bits had been dismantled it turned out that the oil leak was coming from the head gasket and not the cam cover. So it was arranged that I would return the following Monday for the gasket to be replaced, stressing that this time the required part needed to be ordered in plenty of time.

2. Today I got a phone call from the garage service manager. It seems that the head gasket on my van could be any one of three - depending on the number of notches on it. One version was in stock so no problem, the other two weren't even available in this country. So guess what? - they wouldn't be in until Wednesday. Sense of deja vu here? :RollEyes:

3. They will not know until they take the cylinder head off which of the three versions of gasket will actually be required. To me this seems bizarre. Could Fiat not have recorded against the chassis number which gasket they had used when building the engine? Who will give me odds on the in-stock gasket being the right one for my engine? Also I have now been told that the cylinder head will have to be sent away to be skimmed before a new gasket is put in place. This normally just takes 24 hours to turnaround so should be back on the Wednesday. Somehow I just don't feel terribly confident about given timescales anymore. :Sad: And this is in a van that's only just done 5,000 miles for f*** sake!

4. I have already booked a night in a B&B for Monday night. Now I have had to add in one for Tuesday night as well. B&Bs around Worcester are not cheap and I have had to track down ones that will take dogs. It's quite likely that I'll also have to book one for Wednesday night. :RollEyes:

5. I asked the service manager for a contact number for Fiat customer service - the only one he has is the International Freephone 00800 number for customer service in Italy. I can't ring 00800 numbers from a BT phone box. I'm not ringing expensive international calls from my mobile. I find a 'Chat' option on the Fiat website - the person I get to chat to suggests I phone or e-mail instead. :RollEyes: I find a 'Call Me Back Now' option on the same site - I fill in all my details and 2.5 hours later I'm still waiting for that phone call. :Angry: Only option left is to e-mail them - but I wanted to talk to an actual person! Today! I want to bend their ear and point out that their silly 5-day policy is not in the customer's interest. I want them to pay for my B&Bs. I want a year's free supply of tiramisu!


Found these for you

Ones European ones uk with a direct no


Fiat UK (includes Alfa Romeo UK) UK Mr Steve Zanlunghi, Managing Director
www CS

Fiat UK


Mr Steve Zanlunghi Managing Director

Email Smz2@chrysler.com
Telephone 01753 519588
Website http://www.fiat.co.uk
Social Media

Address SL1 4DX
Company Number 00201514

See also Customer Services

Europe below
FIAT Group


Mr Sergio Marchionne CEO

Email Sergio.Marchionne@fiatgroup.com
Website http://www.fiat.com
Social Media
 

pappajohn

LIFE MEMBER
Aug 26, 2007
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Have just indulged in a spot of googling and found the Fiat Ducato Course Online: http://library.docent.isvor.it/uplo...cia Didattica Fiat Ducato seconda fase_GB.pdf .

From p14:

The gasket between cylinder head and
crankcase is composed of three layers
of stainless steel coated
with special heat-resistant rubber material.
While head gaskets of three different thicknesses are
used at the factory, replacement gaskets come in
one standard thickness only. Factory gaskets are differentiated by notches as follows
- 1 notch : thickness class 1
- 2 notches: thickness class 2
- 3 notches: thickness class 3

So not massively useful as to explaining why there are 3 thicknesses of gasket used in the factory. But if replacement gaskets only come in one standard thickness, why is the garage trying to order in 3 different ones? :Confused:

well.....thats the dead opposite of what i was told.

if there is only one replacement thickness why bother with three 'build time' thicknesses.....makes no sense.
 

icantremember

LIFE MEMBER
Sep 2, 2010
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since 2005
Have just indulged in a spot of googling and found the Fiat Ducato Course Online: http://library.docent.isvor.it/uplo...cia Didattica Fiat Ducato seconda fase_GB.pdf .

From p14:

The gasket between cylinder head and
crankcase is composed of three layers
of stainless steel coated
with special heat-resistant rubber material.
While head gaskets of three different thicknesses are
used at the factory, replacement gaskets come in
one standard thickness only. Factory gaskets are differentiated by notches as follows
- 1 notch : thickness class 1
- 2 notches: thickness class 2
- 3 notches: thickness class 3

So not massively useful as to explaining [HI]why there are 3 thicknesses[/HI] of gasket used in the factory. But if replacement gaskets only come in one standard thickness, why is the garage trying to order in 3 different ones? :Confused:

They probably have varying thickness gaskets in the factory and use them according to how poorly the head and blocks are machined in order to take up the uneven gaps between the mating faces.:Doh:
 
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maz

maz

Jan 26, 2011
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They probably have varying thickness gaskets in the factory and use them according to how poorly the head and blocks are machined in order to take up the uneven gaps between the mating faces.:Doh:

I'm hoping that's a joke. ::bigsmile:

But it makes more sense than anything I've thought of. :RollEyes:

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Dec 12, 2010
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I‘m sure Icantremember is about right. Everything is made to certain tolerances, so if a block is machined to the lowest size, the head will need to be spaced off the appropriate amount to maintain the clearances.
 
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maz

maz

Jan 26, 2011
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I‘m sure Icantremember is about right. Everything is made to certain tolerances, so if a block is machined to the lowest size, the head will need to be spaced off the appropriate amount to maintain the clearances.

So in that case, what happens when the gasket is replaced and the only replacement gasket is one size? Are clearances increased/reduced? And what effect will that have on the engine? Anyone know?

Over the three years that I've been motorhoming, I've already learned more about the various components than I ever imagined I would need (or want) to. But still it goes on. :RollEyes:
 

Jaws

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well.....thats the dead opposite of what i was told.

if there is only one replacement thickness why bother with three 'build time' thicknesses.....makes no sense.

Because the parts person/storeman ( who are all bred especially from some weird race who are always limited to an EXACT I Q of 74 and are not allowed to read past the first line of anything by order of their union ) read there are three versions..

If he had continued on he would have known there is only one.

There should be a roll playing game invented.. Dungeons and Storemen.. The adventures and possibilities would be endless

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cruiser

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:Blush:same props with their cars.6 weeks wating for a headcaskit.sold car.:Doh::Doh:
 

Jaws

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Nahhhh.. Its a wee oil leak.. most folk nowadays rarely lift the bonnet.
You are unlikely to do any harm by using it to be honest :thumb:

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maz

maz

Jan 26, 2011
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Nahhhh.. Its a wee oil leak.. most folk nowadays rarely lift the bonnet.
You are unlikely to do any harm by using it to be honest :thumb:

No, it's not that - I've been driving it in between anyway. :Smile:

It's that once the engine's out and the cylinder head is off, it won't be able to go anywhere until the gasket is sorted. :Sad:

I could be doomed to an eternity of living in Worcester B&Bs. :Eeek:
 

cruiser

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except for fiats not knowing what they were doing.my son said they are trying to download the veh.computer.because they don't know to do.:Eeek:
 
Jan 27, 2013
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You would be mistaken if you think of the mechanic and parts department as part of the Fiat group. It's only going to be a dealer with a Fiat franchise.

Reluctance to bring in parts before examining the job or stripping down an engine is your dealer's decision (to avoid parts sitting on the shelf) and not a Fiat policy.

If you don't like being treated like a second class citizen find a Fiat dealer who will treat you right.

Me? Over the years I've found Fiat commercial seem to know what they are doing whereas car dealerships are a complete waste of time. I have never had to leave a vehicle overnight at a Fiat Professional garage - maybe I'm lucky? But they seem to know what they are doing.

Skimming the head? Sounds like they're trying to cover all the bases. It may be fine and have no issues I guess skimming it would ensure it is clean :RollEyes:

No mass produced engine cylinder head is checked for tolerances in the factory and prescribed as requiring an extra thick gasket to take up the slack. They'll all come out the same, with the same gasket. If there's a problem it'll be sorted out by the aftercare market who will mess you about because they can't find the fault and don't want to order in the parts until they see what they need "as Fiat have this 5 day policy see..." :Blush:

The very best of luck in getting this fixed promptly.
 
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maz

maz

Jan 26, 2011
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If you don't like being treated like a second class citizen find a Fiat dealer who will treat you right.

Me? Over the years I've found Fiat commercial seem to know what they are doing whereas car dealerships are a complete waste of time. I have never had to leave a vehicle overnight at a Fiat Professional garage - maybe I'm lucky? But they seem to know what they are doing.

This is a Fiat Professional garage.

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Dec 12, 2010
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Hi Maz, if they skim your cylinder head, they will more than likely have to fit a thicker gasket to compensate for material removed.
Once they‘ve removed the head, if they find any scores caused by combustion gasses getting past the original gasket, or if the head has warped due to overheating ( not likely in your case ) then they would skim it.
It may be that if they remove a head, they skim them as a matter of course, sort of belt and braces approach which doesn‘t help you.
Went back through your posts and am a bit confused about the statement that there is only one thickness of gasket, if the service manager says they‘re notched, that can only indicate that they do come in a range of thicknesses which would fit in with every other manufacturer.
Hope you get some good news soon Maz.
 
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maz

maz

Jan 26, 2011
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Went back through your posts and am a bit confused about the statement that there is only one thickness of gasket, if the service manager says they‘re notched, that can only indicate that they do come in a range of thicknesses which would fit in with every other manufacturer.

That info came from the Fiat Ducato Online Course material, which says that although three different thicknesses of gasket (indicated by 1, 2 or 3 notches) are used in the factory during engine construction, there is only one thickness of replacement gasket. It doesn't explain why this is the case though.

There seems to be no record kept by the factory against chassis number of which of the three gaskets was used during construction. If there is only one replacement gasket thickness, then this wouldn't matter anyway. But if the gasket has to be replaced with one with the same number of notches as the original, the correct type can only be ascertained once the cylinder head is off - which seems ludicrous as it automatically adds delay while the correct gasket is then ordered. Unless three gaskets have to be ordered every time one needs replacing - which also seems ludicrous. But then if the head is going to be skimmed anyway, it would appear not to matter what thickness of gasket was originally used. :RollEyes:

I have now been looking at online replacement parts sites - so far I have found only one type of replacement gasket for my engine, coming in at around the £75 mark. No mention anywhere of different thicknesses - at least not that I've been able to find. This would seem to tie in with the fact that although one thickness of gasket was in stock with Fiat in the UK, the other two were not even available in this country and would have to come from the factory.

On the positive side, this should mean that the in-stock gasket is the one to use and I won't have to wait for the others to arrive from abroad. Or is that being unduly optimistic? :wub:
 
Feb 27, 2011
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You have my sympathy for what it's worth. I know the "joy" of trying to find a garage that is understanding of the fulltimers dilemma.

I thought I had been unlucky with my current van, but you have had two problem vehicles back to back :Sad:

I really hope you get it sorted quickly and to your satisfaction.

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