height barrier (1 Viewer)

[dshague]

post by andy strangeway on facebook ...Broken Link Removed

At our Direct Action – Number 5, following discussion with and upon the request of Lincolnshire Police, we agreed to cease queuing at the height barrier at 12.25. I believe Inspector Colin Haigh should be praised for his actions. A compromise was agreed where if we ceased to queue at the height barrier he would ask Lincolnshire County Council (LCC) to meet with me to find resolution to the situation at Huttoft Car Terrace. I am pleased to confirm as promised Inspector Haigh was true to his word and has indeed sent an email to LCC

 

[pappajohn]

unfortunately the guy is a Yorkshireman....makes me ashamed.

Has he actually had any bylaws overturned ?

And his argument re....table mounts etc.
if it says motorcaravan on the V5 then its a motorcaravan...table onboard or not.
Looks like he was clutching at straws with that argument

Total tosser in my book and doing nobody any favours.

 

[Sidney]

unfortunately the guy is a Yorkshireman....makes me ashamed.

Has he actually had any bylaws overturned ?

And his argument re....table mounts etc.
if it says motorcaravan on the V5 then its a motorcaravan...table onboard or not.
Looks like he was clutching at straws with that argument

Total tosser in my book and doing nobody any favours.

Well I'd have to disagree with you there.

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[pappajohn]

Well I'd have to disagree with you there.

which part.....or all of it ?

 

[johnp10]

I thought we'd done this one to death.
The decision to erect barriers was a last, rather than first, resort by the council.
As a day tripper, I, and I assume others, don't want to visit a place to have to park amongst deck chairs, washing lines, where grey waste is dumped at random and the sands are contaminated with shit.
All of this has been reported first hand, approach by the council was ignored.
The barrier is not an "illegal" one, neither is the bye law concerned.
The car park is a car park, not a campsite, it is also the council's property.
As such they can restrict whatever vehicles they like.
Should lorries carrying frozen food with a fridge running 24/7 be allowed to park for a week at a time on this park?
By the same reasoning from some on here, they should.
There is a pic on a previous post supporting "wild camping".
Heads up, folks...this ISNT wild, it's just skinflint, nuisance camping with no return to the community.

Is this the bit where we get the "human rights" guff?

 

[johnp10]

Just had a thought.....
What would these urban freedom fighting freeloaders do if the council closed the park and sold the land for development?
They can do it, it's their land.
Require the developers to provide them with free holidays?

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[GJH]

unfortunately the guy is a Yorkshireman....makes me ashamed.

Has he actually had any bylaws overturned ?

And his argument re....table mounts etc.
if it says motorcaravan on the V5 then its a motorcaravan...table onboard or not.
Looks like he was clutching at straws with that argument

Total tosser in my book and doing nobody any favours.

Last I heard he doesn't even have a motorhome. Does his "wild camping" in a Skoda Fabia which isn't subject to a ban on motorhomes.

By all means let's have constructive arguments for off site camping facilities but do it in co-operation with councils, not in confrontation because that will only harden opposition.

 

[Sidney]

which part.....or all of it ?

As far as I can see he's asking for the barriers to be opened during the day...

This is a short dash away for me. Park up, pull out some chairs and have a great day.

Now I can't because of height barriers. Maybe I'm wrong; perhaps I should leave my taxed and insured motorhome outside my house and accept this was done as a last resort.

 

[GJH]

[HI]As far as I can see he's asking for the barriers to be opened during the day...[/HI]

This is a short dash away for me. Park up, pull out some chairs and have a great day.

Now I can't because of height barriers. Maybe I'm wrong; perhaps I should leave my taxed and insured motorhome outside my house and accept this was done as a last resort.

Which is basically returning to the same, abused, system that existed before the barriers. Tax and insurance confer no parking rights - and certainly no camping rights. Blame the abusers not the council.

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[Sidney]

Which is basically returning to the same, abused, system that existed before the barriers. Tax and insurance confer no parking rights - and certainly no camping rights. Blame the abusers not the council.

Just checked back and yup oddly enough I'm not blaming anyone.

But thanks for the input

 

[TheBig1]

what worries me is that other councils will see this action and use it as an argument against motorhome parking in their area. Living in a touristy seaside and forest area, we continually see vans abuse the local laws and camp where they want for weeks at a time. thats why height barriers are being put up and some of the best spots....the greedy selfish few ruin it for the majority

the chap linked to in the op needs to get a new hobby, as all he is doing is making matters worse not better

 

[sdc77]

As far as I can see he's asking for the barriers to be opened during the day...

This is a short dash away for me. Park up, pull out some chairs and have a great day.

Now I can't because of height barriers. Maybe I'm wrong; perhaps I should leave my taxed and insured motorhome outside my house and accept this was done as a last resort.

Surely... Just like me... You can take your taxed and insured motorhome somewhere it will fit... I can't fit mine in the local sainsbury car park... So I don't take it there. But I can take it to a camp site or any of the well advertised (and getting fewer) car parks that will accept motorhomes.
Blame the people who abused the parking areas.. Not the council.
This guy seems to have far too much time on his hands and he certainly doesn't speak for me.

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[Sidney]

Surely... Just like me... You can take your taxed and insured motorhome somewhere it will fit... I can't fit mine in the local sainsbury car park... So I don't take it there. But I can take it to a camp site or any of the well advertised (and getting fewer) car parks that will accept motorhomes.
Blame the people who abused the parking areas.. Not the council.
This guy seems to have far too much time on his hands and he certainly doesn't speak for me.

I can take my motorhome to Sainsburys. But if motorhomes regularly camped overnight in their car park don't you think Sainsburys would do something about it? I don't think they would restrict all over-height vehicles from their car park because that would be STUPID. Yet a council can and do erect height barriers and Funsters say we should blame those who wildcamp.

My local Homebase has a barrier restricting ANY vehicles from entering after between 21:00 and 07:00. I don't care because I don't want nor need to visit Homebase in the middle of the night.

Equally I don't want to camp overnight in a car park. I'd just like to be able to park my motorhome.

 

[The wizened of OZ]

You must have different laws in the UK to us in Oz.

Here the council is elected and funded by THE COMMUNITY, not by themselves.
In OZ the council would not have the right to sell land if THE COMMUNITY disagreed.
Also THE COMMUNITY can lobby the council and get council orders reversed.

If THE COMMUNITY do not like the counsellors we can vote them out.:thumb:

 

[sdc77]

I can take my motorhome to Sainsburys. But if motorhomes regularly camped overnight in their car park don't you think Sainsburys would do something about it? I don't think they would restrict all over-height vehicles from their car park because that would be STUPID. Yet a council can and do erect height barriers and Funsters say we should blame those who wildcamp.

My local Homebase has a barrier restricting ANY vehicles from entering after between 21:00 and 07:00. I don't care because I don't want nor need to visit Homebase in the middle of the night.

Equally I don't want to camp overnight in a car park. I'd just like to be able to park my motorhome.

Seems to me that in nearly all cases re these car parks... Restrictions have been imposed because of previous poor council vs motorhome experiences.. Or the car parks only have bays for cars..
It would be great if we could Park anywhere.. But as with other large vehicles.. We can't. We can lobby the councils and I think there are examples of that working... But as long as some motorhome users abuse the system and act like "dirty gypsy" then these restrictions are going to stay.
Your argument seems to avoid the fact that these people exist and ruin it for everyone.

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[GJH]

Just checked back and yup oddly enough I'm not blaming anyone.

But thanks for the input

Apologies then. Your last sentence read as if it included implicit blame.

 

[GJH]

I can take my motorhome to Sainsburys. But if motorhomes regularly camped overnight in their car park don't you think Sainsburys would do something about it? I don't think they would restrict all over-height vehicles from their car park because that would be STUPID. Yet a council can and do erect height barriers and Funsters say we should blame those who wildcamp.

My local Homebase has a barrier restricting ANY vehicles from entering after between 21:00 and 07:00. I don't care because I don't want nor need to visit Homebase in the middle of the night.

Equally I don't want to camp overnight in a car park. I'd just like to be able to park my motorhome.

Over the years I've been in touch with all the major supermarkets (for the web site) on a number of occasions. Height barriers in supermarket car parks are rare but they have been used in the past where "traveller" incursion has happened during the store opening hours (when lower barriers would have been ineffective). There are, of course, some supermarkets which are served by multi-storey car parks which are inaccessible by high vehicles. Lower barriers such as the Homebase one mentioned tend to be installed to prevent use of the car park by boy racers overnight.

The case of Huttoft Car Terrace has been well documented in the press, here and on other forums. Lincolnshire County Council tried several other ways to persuade people to stop abusing the No Camping order but, in the end, permanent height barriers were installed as a last resort.

 

[jezport]

If anyone dumps waste, throws litter setsup chairs they should be fined or punished in line with the laws which are in place to do so.

Many car users abusethe laws. Do we block their access? It is similar to racism banning one type of person.

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[Sidney]

Seems to me that in nearly all cases re these car parks... Restrictions have been imposed because of previous poor council vs motorhome experiences.. Or the car parks only have bays for cars..
It would be great if we could Park anywhere.. But as with other large vehicles.. We can't. We can lobby the councils and I think there are examples of that working... But as long as some motorhome users abuse the system and act like "dirty gypsy" then these restrictions are going to stay.
Your argument seems to avoid the fact that these people exist and ruin it for everyone.

We can generalise but why not be specific - especially when we have details?

There is plenty of room at Huttoft Beach. It does not have marked parking bays, nor any areas set aside for those with special needs.

Broken Link Removed

If the council want to stop persons from camping overnight they should do exactly that.

Instead they have spent thousands erecting a barrier that stops over-height traffic from using the car park. In the foreground of this photo is a mobile cafe - it's not pretty but it has a food hygiene certificate (yes I would I rather see a pretty chalet but that is free enterprise).

In the background you can see motorhomes and If I could find the correct folder I have lots of images of us using this facility throughout the years.

I believe charging for parking and enforcing parking laws would have been a much better solution that stopping owners of motorhomes from using this beautiful spot.

You can of course tell me I am wrong and that I should blame someone other than the parties who have taken away this facility.

 

[Puddleduck]

I do think some councils are "missing a trick". Take Sheriffhall P&R on the way to Edinburgh - yep, height barriers. Surely it wouldn't hurt the council to open the barriers when the travel centre opens in the morning to allow taller vehicles in - and lock them again when the travel centre closes in the evening? That would encourage visitors into the city to spend their money. This would cost very little or nothing and if an MH is left overnight then a parking charge could be levied.

Another idea might be to have a card operated height barrier where cards were issued either on application or by club membership and people had to agree not to stay overnight. Surely this would not be beyond the wit of man and could be enforced reasonably cheaply.

 

[GJH]

I do think some councils are "missing a trick". Take Sheriffhall P&R on the way to Edinburgh - yep, height barriers. Surely it wouldn't hurt the council to open the barriers when the travel centre opens in the morning to allow taller vehicles in - and lock them again when the travel centre closes in the evening? That would encourage visitors into the city to spend their money. This would cost very little or nothing and if an MH is left overnight then a parking charge could be levied.

Another idea might be to have a card operated height barrier where cards were issued either on application or by club membership and people had to agree not to stay overnight. Surely this would not be beyond the wit of man and could be enforced reasonably cheaply.

It might be worth asking Midlothian Council why the barriers cannot be opened at Sheriffhall (and Straiton). From memory I think it might have been a response to traveller incursion during the day but don't have time at the moment to find the messages in my files.

Ingliston, Newcraighall and Wallyford P&R sites all have no height restrictions.

If memory serves (and again I don't have time to search files) I think the cost of having opening barriers and staff to operate them at Huttoft Car Terrace made such a scheme too much of a burden on taxpayers compared to the fixed barriers.

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[Puddleduck]

It might be worth asking Midlothian Council why the barriers cannot be opened at Sheriffhall (and Straiton). From memory I think it might have been a response to traveller incursion during the day but don't have time at the moment to find the messages in my files.

Ingliston, Newcraighall and Wallyford P&R sites all have no height restrictions.

If memory serves (and again I don't have time to search files) I think the cost of having opening barriers and staff to operate them at Huttoft Car Terrace made such a scheme too much of a burden on taxpayers compared to the fixed barriers.

I think it is Edinburgh City Council - and I have (to both just in case) and had no reply. I chose Sheriffhall as it is the first P&R on the way up the A7 / A68.

 

[GJH]

I think it is Edinburgh City Council - and I have (to both just in case) and had no reply. I chose Sheriffhall as it is the first P&R on the way up the A7 / A68.

I've just checked again. Sheriffhall is Midlothian but Straiton is Edinburgh.

 

[freelanderuk]

You can of course tell me I am wrong and that I should blame someone other than the parties who have taken away this facility.

i live in the area and used huttoft many a time to go sea fishing at night , i have seen people in motorhomes empty their toilet waste in the dunes , have fires on the beach and leave their rubbish so it blows around , i have seen them park length ways with their awnings out and all set up like a camp site and grey water emptying on to the concrete, there was even one van and owner there that was doing car repairs from his van parked up, there have been vans parked up for weeks on end using it as a camp site .

it a carpark not a camp site.

there are a fair few cl's and other camp sites around the area for them to pitch up on but they would rather abuse the system and then complain like hell when it gets taken away .

i am glad the height barriers are there even now it means we can no longer go for the day in the van with the gran-kids and it cost me extra on my council tax so Dont blame the council who have erected the barriers blame the freeloading Tossers who spoil it

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[Sidney]

I am under no illusion that one size fits all. But if you turn this on its head you can think of a multitude of ways by which councils can cover the costs of providing facilities that can accommodate motorhomes.

Clearly the best course of action is not to reduce access for those that are willing to pay and behave in an appropriate manner.

Councils up and down the land are closing leisure facilities including libraries, sports centres and car homes.

Putting a height barrier at Huttoft Beach is the same as closing a rural lane because some w**kers use it for fly tipping. It isn't the answer.

 

[Mike B]

You must have different laws in the UK to us in Oz.

Here the council is elected and funded by THE COMMUNITY, not by themselves.
In OZ the council would not have the right to sell land if THE COMMUNITY disagreed.
Also THE COMMUNITY can lobby the council and get council orders reversed.

If THE COMMUNITY do not like the counsellors we can vote them out.:thumb:

Strange ideas you colonials have. (Sorry couldn't resist, apologises if it offends)

I should think that in this case the community is in agreement with the council, it's just the passing through folk that are not happy.

 

[GJH]

I am under no illusion that one size fits all. [HI]But if you turn this on its head you can think of a multitude of ways by which councils can cover the costs of providing facilities that can accommodate motorhomes. [/HI]

Clearly the best course of action is not to reduce access for those that are willing to pay and behave in an appropriate manner.

Councils up and down the land are closing leisure facilities including libraries, sports centres and car homes.

Putting a height barrier at Huttoft Beach is the same as closing a rural lane because some w**kers use it for fly tipping. It isn't the answer.

It's easy to say that "you can think of a multitude of ways" but, as with the argument for aires, very few people can actually turn such a statement into a realistic action plan. It is simply not enough to produce a list. In order to produce valid arguments one must include the costs of implementation/maintenance and a realistic assessment of the revenue which would be achieved.

I would love to see anyone produce such arguments. Perhaps somebody can start with Huttoft Car Terrace, publish the results here and take the case up with Lincolnshire County Council to show them the increased income they are missing.

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[Sidney]

and so we go full circle.

When this thread started the one person arguing for the right to use this car park was called a tosser.

 

[sdc77]

and so we go full circle.

When this thread started the one person arguing for the right to use this car park was called a tosser.

Seems a fair assessment of him... Not the cause.

 

[DeuceBG]

and so we go full circle.

When this thread started the one person arguing for the right to use this car park was called a tosser.

I'm completely with you on wanting access to the Car Terrace, along with all the other areas along the East Coast but I think what puts peoples' backs up about AS is that he's not offering any feasible solutions to getting the likes of us in whilst at the same time keeping out the undesirables who have recently taken to using the place as their own private playground.

Tearing down the barriers alone won't solve the problem but what the workable alternative would be, I don't know although I'm confident one could eventually be found.

Like you, I've been using the Picnic Areas around there for years and it irritates the cr#p out of me that I can't anymore, at least not with my choice of vehicle.

After a somewhat protracted "Debate" on a similar thread I started a week or two back, and following quite lengthy conversations I've had with several of the local people, it's quite clear to me that they have been suffering quite a bit as a result of the "Wild Campers" and I have to admit that their behaviour would have pi##ed me off too if I still lived there.

We spent the night on a nice CL outside Huttoft on Saturday and spent the day in Sutton and Mablethorpe, visiting the Seal Sanctuary et al and really enjoyed it but we couldn't shake off the irritation of not being able to plot up right by the beach and watch the world go by with a cuppa for a few hours.

I don't think it's going to change anytime soon so we've decided to look elsewhere for the views and atmosphere we want.
Still, that's the whole point of having a Camper Van I guess....to explore pastures new..

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