SCARBOROUGH - No longer welcome :-( (1 Viewer)

G8WVW

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There must be a hundred of these signs recently erected around Scarborough's North Bay and roads around Cayton bay.

Many fellow funsters will have arrived late after a long drive and sneaked a night of the seafront. Blinkin' shame.

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Nov 30, 2009
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Its far too noisy to overnight anyway. We have done it once , never again. Blooming cobbled road , at the best bit near the water pump , sounds like a machine gun at night.:ROFLMAO:
Great for parking up all day though, done that many a time.

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Snowbird

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We all know where it is but with the greatest respect to the likes of Papajohn who lives there, why would anyone want to go there :RollEyes:.

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GJH

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To be fair to Scarborough, a number of officers and members wanted to allow overnighting in certain car parks. They then realised that change of use would be needed and long-standing planning policy would be breached.

The resulting report ended with the words "applicants who have been unsuccessful in gaining consent for sites in the past may view the Council as being inconsistent were it to pursue this option itself."
 
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I wonder how this will impact on all those surfers who use VWs and park up all weekend and "don't contribute to the economy".
Will they be banned as well ?
 

pappajohn

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We all know where it is but with the greatest respect to the likes of Papajohn who lives there, why would anyone want to go there :RollEyes:.
No offence taken Dave.

if i didnt live here i wouldnt want to visit either.

oh...the signs have been in place for quite some time now.

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philw111

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It's not just the council.

We had a booking at the CC site near Scarborough for July. Today we got a letter from CC saying that they had changed our booking from an awning pitch to a non-awning one. As we have a driveaway awning that we intend to use while away, we have had to cancel and look elsewhere:Angry:
 
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You will need one of these -- "not me officer"::bigsmile:

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GJH

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Anyone interested in seeing how the campaign to object to the parking ban should look here Broken Link Removed

Ah yes, the guy who threw his dummy out of the pram when a few people on the Wild Camping forum dared to disagree with him :roflmto:

The situation regarding off-street car parks in the whole of Scarborough Borough is that there is a properly made order preventing camping in car parks for reasons well aired in other threads.

As regards on-street parking (the responsibility of North Yorkshire County Council) there is a properly made temporary order in place. I can't remember when it finishes but it will then have to be made permanent if it is to continue. At that time there will be a public consultation exercise as part of the process. That is the appropriate time for objections to be made - but they will have to be well evidenced (not just whinges) if they are to succeed.
 
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As the average motor home is only a few feet longer than a car does it really matter when parking up......we are all tourists spending money in their town at the end of the day. Other towns have proper parking facilities for motor homes, and some are free.
 

Allanm

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They might as well put up signs that say " Please don't enjoy yourself when visiting our town. We don't want you here anyway"
We have similar No Motorcaravan signs along the sea front just down the road from me. The councils excuse for putting them up was that one of the residents complained about overnighting motorhomes. They started with a dozen signs in one road, now they have put signs up on over a mile of road.
Some powerful resident that must have been.
No, wait, I was at the council meeting when putting the signs up was first proposed. There were no complaints from any residents. I opposed the decision, but I think it had already been decided.
Allan

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GJH

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As the average motor home is only a few feet longer than a car does it really matter when parking up......we are all tourists spending money in their town at the end of the day. [HI]Other towns have proper parking facilities for motor homes[/HI], and some are free.

Scarborough is one of the (majority of) councils which has parking facilities for motorhomes. What Scarborough does not allow (in common with the majority of councils) is camping in car parks. That situation will not change unless it can be shown that it is in the public interest to allow camping in car parks where it is not currently allowed.
 

GJH

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They might as well put up signs that say " Please don't enjoy yourself when visiting our town. We don't want you here anyway"
We have similar No Motorcaravan signs along the sea front just down the road from me. The councils excuse for putting them up was that one of the residents complained about overnighting motorhomes. They started with a dozen signs in one road, now they have put signs up on over a mile of road.
Some powerful resident that must have been.
No, wait, I was at the council meeting when putting the signs up was first proposed. There were no complaints from any residents. I opposed the decision, but I think it had already been decided.
Allan

Is that Broadstairs Allan?
 
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We all know where it is but with the greatest respect to the likes of Papajohn who lives there, why would anyone want to go there :RollEyes:.

I love Scarborough! Spent many hols there when a child. Lots of lovely history stuff there, including first Grand Hotel in Europe, first English seaside resort (17th century), the home of my ancestors. Come from a long line of Scarborough pub keepers! Plus wonderful Alan Aykbourn plays at the Theatre.

I take Graham's point - not many places in UK where Motor Homes CAN camp overnight in car parks. Why pick Scarborough out for criticism?

Catherine

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Jan 4, 2012
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They might as well put up signs that say " Please don't enjoy yourself when visiting our town. We don't want you here anyway"
We have similar No Motorcaravan signs along the sea front just down the road from me. The councils excuse for putting them up was that one of the residents complained about overnighting motorhomes. They started with a dozen signs in one road, now they have put signs up on over a mile of road.
Some powerful resident that must have been.
No, wait, I was at the council meeting when putting the signs up was first proposed. There were no complaints from any residents. I opposed the decision, but I think it had already been decided.
Allan

Some local Sir big wig drove through there one evening and seen some MH`s parked up and probably said to his ---(Lady) " I think I am going to have to put a stop to these terrible motorized caravans darling , they must have a correct place to go, we don`t want them here"
I will call hooray henry at the council to sort it out pronto:Eeek:
 
Oct 29, 2008
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I love Scarborough! Spent many hols there when a child. Lots of lovely history stuff there, including first Grand Hotel in Europe, first English seaside resort (17th century), the home of my ancestors. Come from a long line of Scarborough pub keepers! Plus wonderful Alan Aykbourn plays at the Theatre.

I take Graham's point - not many places in UK where Motor Homes CAN camp overnight in car parks. Why pick Scarborough out for criticism?

Catherine
Its not just Scarborough that is being protested against. Andy has had results in Scotland and had illegal signs removed

SBC brought the temporary traffic order in because they said there has been reports of toilet waste being dumped and this was to stop it. What a lie! When asked for proof of the dumping they could produce no evidence. Even if they could how would an overnight ban for one type of vehicle be a sensible thing to do? Should we ban cars from parking at night if the council say that some car owners left rubbish.
Before the ban we visited Scarborough many times mainly before and after the summer season and we saw a motorhomer picking up waste rather than leaving waste. We saw car owners leaving hot bbqs and dirty nappies. It is a resort that desperately needs visitors especially out of season to support the small traders.

Besides, if one council gets away with it the the others will follow.......

Should we not bother protecting our rights to park?
 

GJH

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Its not just Scarborough that is being protested against. Andy has had results in Scotland and had illegal signs removed

SBC brought the temporary traffic order in because they said there has been reports of toilet waste being dumped and this was to stop it. What a lie! When asked for proof of the dumping they could produce no evidence. Even if they could how would an overnight ban for one type of vehicle be a sensible thing to do? Should we ban cars from parking at night if the council say that some car owners left rubbish.
Before the ban we visited Scarborough many times mainly before and after the summer season and we saw a motorhomer picking up waste rather than leaving waste. We saw car owners leaving hot bbqs and dirty nappies. It is a resort that desperately needs visitors especially out of season to support the small traders.

Besides, if one council gets away with it the the others will follow.......

Should we not bother protecting our rights to park?

The situation in Scotland was totally different. Highland Council had tried to save local taxpayers' money by erecting signs without going to the expense of bringing in a legal order. Once the validity was challenged the council took the signs down. What is happening now is that orders are being made in certain places.

Scarborough Borough Council have implemented permanent orders covering off street parking. North Yorkshire County Council have implemented a temporary order covering on street parking. Rights to park are enshrined in those orders.

There never were any rights to camp in car parks so where does any council "getting away with it" come in?

EDIT: This article from 2011 contains clues why Scarborough residents and visitors have become upset by some motorhome campers.

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Oct 29, 2008
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So what you're saying is because one group parked on the grass and a few people break the law we should be banned and forced out of towns.
 

Wildman

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Ah yes, the guy who threw his dummy out of the pram when a few people on the Wild Camping forum dared to disagree with him :roflmto:

The situation regarding off-street car parks in the whole of Scarborough Borough is that there is a properly made order preventing camping in car parks for reasons well aired in other threads.

As regards on-street parking (the responsibility of North Yorkshire County Council) there is a properly made temporary order in place. I can't remember when it finishes but it will then have to be made permanent if it is to continue. At that time there will be a public consultation exercise as part of the process. That is the appropriate time for objections to be made - but they will have to be well evidenced (not just whinges) if they are to succeed.
That a council should have a properly made order tempory or not does not give them the moral right to discriminate against people in motorhomes. The whole thing is a way to milk the motorist and if people wish to protest that the councils are wrong then apart from voting them out at the next election are they supposed to just ignore the increasing pressures to drive them off of the roads. A lot of us outside of the hallowed halls of establishment know that making representations at a public consultation is largely over ruled by representation formulated at our expence by the councils legal team against us.
The establishment always think they are right.
 

GJH

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So what you're saying is because one group parked on the grass and a few people break the law we should be banned and forced out of towns.

What I'm saying is that the public interest comes first.

We all know that it isn't just one group or a few people breaking the law. The car park regulations in Scarborough Borough - especially at Whitby Marina - have been flouted for years (including one club bragging that they held a rally there when their camp site was waterlogged).

We also know that the reason Scarborough didn't allow use of car parks overnight (which several officers and members supported) was a long standing planning policy which they could not go against without risking costly challenges.

Until those who want more councils to allow the use of car parks for camping actually show real evidence that it is in the public interest to do so then the default will be that it is not.

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GJH

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That a council should have a properly made order tempory or not does not give them the moral right to discriminate against people in motorhomes. The whole thing is a way to milk the motorist and if people wish to protest that the councils are wrong then apart from voting them out at the next election are they supposed to just ignore the increasing pressures to drive them off of the roads. A lot of us outside of the hallowed halls of establishment know that making representations at a public consultation is largely over ruled by representation formulated at our expence by the councils legal team against us.
The establishment always think they are right.

They are not discriminating Roger. They are maintaining the use of car parks for parking only, not camping - i.e. the purpose for which they were designed and built.

If members of the public are unable to put together a properly reasoned argument for allowing camping that is not the fault of those who do not want it.

As I said in my previous post, the move by members and officers in Scarborough was to allow use of car parks but the council could not overturn a long standing planning policy just to suit themselves.
 

Snowbird

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I love Scarborough! Spent many hols there when a child. Lots of lovely history stuff there, including first Grand Hotel in Europe, first English seaside resort (17th century), the home of my ancestors. Come from a long line of Scarborough pub keepers! Plus wonderful Alan Aykbourn plays at the Theatre.

I take Graham's point - not many places in UK where Motor Homes CAN camp overnight in car parks. Why pick Scarborough out for criticism?

Catherine

I used to go to Rhyl and Colwyn Bay as a child and it was quite nice in those days, but wouldn't dream of going now for reasons that anyone that's been there in the last 5 years will know. Places do change Catherine, and not always for the best.
 

GJH

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I used to go to Rhyl and Colwyn Bay as a child and it was quite nice in those days, but wouldn't dream of going now for reasons that anyone that's been there in the last 5 years will know. Places do change Catherine, and not always for the best.

We sent a few hours in Rhyl about 18 months ago. We thought it was like a down-market Blackpool ::bigsmile:

I've always like Whitby more than Scarborough but each to their own ::bigsmile:

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Wildman

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Planning policy is derived from guidelines laid down by a higher authority, however most councils don't have the initiative to appreciate they are guidelines only not hard and fast laws. Local conditions and needs obviously should take precedent over guidelines. councils adopt those guidelines that suit themselves and ignore the rest. Whilst we must have some form of order it irks me that planning permission is turned down on the grounds of greenbelt etc., one week for a single house, then flouted the next month to build a housing estate or industrial estate. As always its money that talks rather than need or common sense.
 
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Fylde council have made a car park available for overnight motorhome parking which attracts people instead of driving them away. It works, so why do SBC not do similar? They use all sorts of excuses instead of making a compromise that would make the majority of people happy
 

GJH

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Planning policy is derived from guidelines laid down by a higher authority, however most councils don't have the initiative to appreciate they are guidelines only not hard and fast laws. Local conditions and needs obviously should take precedent over guidelines. councils adopt those guidelines that suit themselves and ignore the rest. Whilst we must have some form of order[HI] it irks me that planning permission is turned down on the grounds of greenbelt etc., one week for a single house, then flouted the next month to build a housing estate or industrial estate. [/HI]As always its money that talks rather than need or common sense.

Exactly Roger - which is why Scarborough Council could not give themselves planning permission when they had turned down numerous applications over several years from private sector applicants. If they had not been consistent they would have opened themselves to exactly that sort of accusation.

See my post #4 on this thread. There are links on several other Scarborough threads to the full report.

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GJH

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Fylde council have made a car park available for overnight motorhome parking which attracts people instead of driving them away. It works, so [HI]why do SBC not do similar[/HI]? They use all sorts of excuses instead of making a compromise that would make the majority of people happy

Quite apart from the planning consideration mentioned on numerous occasions, somebody actually took the trouble to work with Fylde Council and show that there was an economic case for them to make the facility available.

The Fylde example has been used in discussions with other local authorities and private companies interested in using their land for aires - and it may well be that, in the long run, further facilities are opened as a result. Without that positive approach, though, nothing will happen. A negative, complaining, approach will simply entrench opposition to opening more facilities.

Take a step back and think generally for a moment. Car parks receive planning permission for the parking of cars. They are designed with car sized bays. Often they are built to cope with the loads imposed by vehicles of no more than 2 tonnes weight. In short, they are not put there for people to camp because they happen to use a self-contained unit.

So, far from any discrimination against motorhomes, what is being sought is discrimination in favour of motorhomes by allowing use over and above that which made up the planning, design and build brief. If that is to be achieved then councils have to be shown that there is a valid reason to agree and that a scheme can be provided which will not be abused.

If that can happen in Fylde in can happen elsewhere - but it requires people who want it to get off their backsides and put some effort in.
 

GJH

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And that is what this action is all about, getting a compromise.

No it isn't. It's whinging pure and simple. This action has never come up with any positive reasons why parking facilities should be used for camping, i.e. why positive discrimination should be apply just because we have motorhomes.

Just think about it. If a customer comes to you and says "I think it would be a good idea if you started supplying product X because there are these many uses for it and you would probably sell as many as you can stock." you are going to react much more positively than if that customer comes up and says "Your business is cr*p because you only deal in goods you can sell instead of pandering to my special interest".

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