Cannot sell a car with a Tax Disc from Oct. (1 Viewer)

[estcres]

The attached just dropped into my "in Box" from a friend.

Broken Link Removed

Not quite sure if it will affect all vehicles or just cars.

 

[TheBig1]

as i understand it, this will apply to all plg vehicles including vans and motorhomes. there will be a different scheme for hgv lorries, horse boxes and possibly phgv vehicles too

 

[Minxy]

When my MIL was looking to buy another car recently she enquired about a used one and the sales chap said that there was still some road tax left on it which she could have with it, I enquired why they hadn't sent it in for a refund and was told that they can't do that now as only the original purchaser can get a refund, so things are already changing - for the better in my view!

The only 'daft' thing is their sending out postal reminders still (at a cost) but obviously not everyone will be able to receive email reminders.

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[Steve]

I have a question that as yet has never been answered in a way I understand,
Why is the tax not just added to the price of fuel then no one would get out of paying it. There are already systems in place for transport firms etc to reclaim some taxes from what the pay to HMCR. They would even gain on the millions litres used cutting our lawns. I personally would be ££££'s better of. I do 10,000 a year but between 4 taxed vehicles.
Steve

 

[pappajohn]

strange...the link refers to the AA and we know they misinterpret things a lot.
The official gov.uk website has no mention of this...other than the disc is to be dropped and the bi-annual and new monthly dd suppliment is 5% instead of the current 10%

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/direct-debit-and-abolition-of-the-tax-disc

 

[buyer]

I have a question that as yet has never been answered in a way I understand,
Why is the tax not just added to the price of fuel then no one would get out of paying it. There are already systems in place for transport firms etc to reclaim some taxes from what the pay to HMCR. They would even gain on the millions litres used cutting our lawns. I personally would be ££££'s better of. I do 10,000 a year but between 4 taxed vehicles.
Steve

I've been saying this for years,to me it makes perfect sence.( but then I am only a nobody who's opinions count for nothing):thumb:

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[tofo]

I've been saying this for years,to me it makes perfect sence.( but then I am only a nobody who's opinions count for nothing):thumb:

If you had a vehicle which had a nil tax

And government of the day put 20 p litre on fuel

To cover lost road tax

How would you feel

:thumb::thumb::thumb:

 

[pappajohn]

If you had a vehicle which had a nil tax

And government of the day put 20 p litre on fuel

To cover lost road tax

How would you feel

:thumb::thumb::thumb:

if it had been implimented a few years ago instead of rehashing the tax into different brackets it wouldnt have mattered.

Extremely low tax bracket cars are low because of low Co emmisions and very low fuel consumption, some cars doing 80+mpg, so the road tax element would be proportional due to less frequent fuel purchases.

I, on the other hand, would pay a lot more getting just 30mpg and an extreme amount getting just 10mpg on my RV.

Now of course, they just couldnt do it.....shot shot themselves in the foot as usual

 

[mikekaren2]

From the Goverment web site.

News story
Direct Debit and abolition of the tax disc





Organisation:Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency
Page history:Updated 5 December 2013, see all updates5 December 2013 1:12pmFirst published.5 December 2013 1:12pm
Policy:Making roads saferTopic:TransportTopical event:Autumn Statement 2013

The government is changing the law in 2014 to reduce tax administration costs and burdens associated with vehicle tax.

The Department for Transport (DfT) made clear in its recent Motoring Services Strategy consultation that the government is committed to offering high quality and cost effective services to the public and businesses. DfT and DVLA have listened to the views of both businesses and the public to remove unnecessary burden and provide modern and efficient services to meet their needs. This includes getting rid of unnecessary paper where possible and making it easier for people and businesses to use government services.
Today (Thursday 5 December 2013), the Chancellor of the Exchequer announced that the government will change the law in 2014 to reduce tax administration costs and burdens associated with vehicle tax.
DVLA will offer motorists the ability to spread their vehicle tax payments should they wish to do so. From 1 October 2014 motorists will be able to pay vehicle tax by direct debit annually, biannually or monthly. There will be no additional handling fees for annual payments but to limit the impact on the public finances there will be a small surcharge of 5% of vehicle tax for biannual and monthly payments. This is half of the 10% surcharge that is currently applied to 6 monthly tax discs and which has been in existence for a number of decades.
Also from 1 October 2014, the paper tax disc, first issued on 1 January 1921, will no longer be issued and required to be displayed on a vehicle windscreen. Vehicle tax will still need to be paid but with DVLA having a digital record of who has and has not paid, a paper tax disc is no longer necessary as proof that vehicle tax is paid. The vast majority of motorists pay their vehicle tax with latest figures confirming that over 99% of motorists’ tax their vehicles on time… Most on-road enforcement action is now based on using Automatic Number Plate Readers. These cameras use the number plate rather than a visual inspection of the tax disc. The police also have access to DVLArecords via the police national computer. There are significant savings for fleet operators and other businesses from not having to handle the administration of tax discs.


Hope this helps.
Mike

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[beachcaster]

I have a question that as yet has never been answered in a way I understand,
Why is the tax not just added to the price of fuel then no one would get out of paying it. There are already systems in place for transport firms etc to reclaim some taxes from what the pay to HMCR. They would even gain on the millions litres used cutting our lawns. I personally would be ££££'s better of. I do 10,000 a year but between 4 taxed vehicles.
Steve

Thats far too sensible a solution.
Think of all the public sector employees with thier pensions that would have to be made unemployed......and all the buildings that would have to be sold.....

No lets carry on employing people with jobs that dont make sense.

Its a great idea........and no one escapes from paying their "road tax"
The petrol companies already collect tax on fuel .so let them take a bit more ..........simple

And the neat thing is the more you use the roads the more you pay

barry

barry

 

[bernardfeay]

I have a question that as yet has never been answered in a way I understand,
Why is the tax not just added to the price of fuel then no one would get out of paying it. There are already systems in place for transport firms etc to reclaim some taxes from what the pay to HMCR. They would even gain on the millions litres used cutting our lawns. I personally would be ££££'s better of. I do 10,000 a year but between 4 taxed vehicles.
Steve

I can give you an answer that you might understand. The government needs to raise a finite amount of money and it could do it in one of several ways. It has chosen an annual fee regardless of mileage. If a different method had been chosen there would be an equal amount of grumbles from those who would have paid less with a different charging system. It is rather like saying people who wear size 9 shoes should pay less for their shoes than people with size 10s. Similarly, if the parking charge is £1 for an hour shouldn't they have a system to give me a refund if I only park for five minutes. They could, perhaps they should, but it's just how it works.

 

[Steve]

I can give you an answer that you might understand. The government needs to raise a finite amount of money and it could do it in one of several ways. It has chosen an annual fee regardless of mileage. If a different method had been chosen there would be an equal amount of grumbles from those who would have paid less with a different charging system. It is rather like saying people who wear size 9 shoes should pay less for their shoes than people with size 10s. Similarly, if the parking charge is £1 for an hour shouldn't they have a system to give me a refund if I only park for five minutes. They could, perhaps they should, but it's just how it works.

but if I stay for a minute or my hour I pay, my choice. If I use one litre or one hundred I pay,my choice. But what of the 10's of thousands that don't pay road tax but still use fuel:Angry:. I pay £1000 a year to tax my vehicles to do 10,000 miles that's 10p per mile but its still £1000 if I do no miles. Pay as you go for me please. seems to work for income tax.

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[bernardfeay]

That's a very persuasive argument and I agree the price of diesel should go up!

 

[pappajohn]

vehicle tax is an annual car ownership tax, nothing more, nothing less....a punishment for daring to own a car.

Nothing whatsoever to do with building or maintaining roads as the original tax was.

 

[pappajohn]

News story
Direct Debit and abolition of the tax disc

and nowhere in that script is mention of the o/p's point of not being able to sell a car with current tax.

The only real difference is the offense of not displaying a disc will be removed from the law books

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[DBK]

It's more of a pollution tax now. The more polluting your vehicle, the more you pay.

 

[DavidG58]

I have been in favour of pay by mile in fuel taxation, but this thread has reminded me that insurance has to be proven to tax a car, that check would be lost if we paid via fuel

Similarly with transferring tax to a new owner of a car, they have no 'need' other than the law telling them to, to insure the car, I suspect a lot are driven away from point of purchase, particularly private sales, then insured when at home, or when they need taxing

 

[pappajohn]

I have been in favour of pay by mile in fuel taxation, but this thread has reminded me that insurance has to be proven to tax a car, that check would be lost if we paid via fuel

Similarly with transferring tax to a new owner of a car, they have no 'need' other than the law telling them to, to insure the car, I suspect a lot are driven away from point of purchase, particularly private sales, then insured when at home, or when they need taxing

Insurance is proven electronically when buying a disc just as it is at roadside checks via numberplate recognition.....wheres the difference if paying via fuel tax, the insurance is still in a data base and will/could be flagged if its expired without renewal.

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[Steve]

It's more of a pollution tax now. The more polluting your vehicle, the more you pay.

This is something else I about, if they want to clean up on car emissions then why did all the old cars on the road keep their £200 but the new large ones can be paying £400+, one of my cars is s 3.9 v8 Discovery it has got to be far dirtier that a modern car of any make but no incentive to me to get rid of it as a new one would have double the tax.
Steve

 

[pappajohn]

This is something else I about, if they want to clean up on car emissions then why did all the old cars on the road keep their £200 but the new large ones can be paying £400+, one of my cars is s 3.9 v8 Discovery it has got to be far dirtier that a modern car of any make but no incentive to me to get rid of it as a new one would have double the tax.
Steve

the incentive is there....

The gov want you to scrap your dirty, thirsty large engined disco for a nice small car which breaths in farts and pumps out perfume through its puny little 600cc engine at 80+mpg and pay little, if any, tax.

Then.....when we all drive wheeled air fresheners they'll tax cars by the volume of air consumed over a year.

 

[bernardfeay]

Surely, for every tax, regardless of name the purpose is the same - the government needs the money to pay for the services it provides. I find all arguments to be based on .... this modification would result in me paying less and others paying more... therefore it should be adopted.

For every political debate the argument is ... you should not raise money this way, you should raise it that way... you should not have this exclusion, you should have that exclusion... this is not a special case.... this is a special case...

In the event that the opposition agree with a policy the line becomes... you have not gone far enough and you should have done it earlier.

It is all so very predictable. All brains are used to rationalise the shifting of the tax burden so that we get relief and others suffer the burden.

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[aba]

if the government had a scrap of intelligence it wouldn't have gone on the big anti smoking campaign as they lost billions in tax when so many gave up smoking.

then another bright idea of 0 road tax on small new cars more billions lost.

then they wonder why it's going backwards.

 

[Yorick]

Oh dear, another fake bandwagon jumped on.

This is just conjecture and myth conjured up by the AA to make them feel useful

 

[pappajohn]

I have been in favour of pay by mile in fuel taxation, but this thread has reminded me that insurance has to be proven to tax a car, that check would be lost if we paid via fuel

Similarly with transferring tax to a new owner of a car, they have no 'need' other than the law telling them to, to insure the car, I suspect a lot are driven away from point of purchase, particularly private sales, then insured when at home, or when they need taxing

just had another thought on this.....

My tax runs out at the end of this month and my insurance runs out at the beginning of next month (both hyperthetical dates)

I go buy 12 months tax on the last day of this month and my insurance expires on the following day....which i dont renew.

The insurance was valid and proved at the time of purchasing road tax yet subsequently i could drive for almost a full year uninsured (theoretically)

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[Steve]

just had another thought on this.....

My tax runs out at the end of this month and my insurance runs out at the beginning of next month (both hyperthetical dates)

I go buy 12 months tax on the last day of this month and my insurance expires on the following day....which i dont renew.

The insurance was valid and proved at the time of purchasing road tax yet subsequently i could drive for almost a full year uninsured (theoretically)

but if your car was checked for what ever reason the data base would show no insurance or what ever had not been renewed. But if you drove around with the no. plate of a car that was, taxed insured ete etc then the check would come back all ok its called cloning and now with no disc to display is even easier.
Steve

 

[pappajohn]

but if your car was checked for what ever reason the data base would show no insurance or what ever had not been renewed. [HI]But if you drove around with the no. plate of a car that was, taxed insured ete etc then the check would come back all ok [/HI]its called cloning and now with no disc to display is even easier.
Steve

just as it would today.

The only people who check tax discs are parking enforcement officers....the police dont have time to look at discs as they walk their beat....oh, i forgot...they dont walk a beat anymore, too dangerous so they go by car.

But as with all gov initiatives, nothing will change.

Look at the sale of number plates law.
You must produce your V5, Passport, driving licence, utility bill etc to buy new plates by law.

Or just go to eBay and buy there.....government fail again

And i did say theoretically

 

[Steve]

just as it would today.

The only people who check tax discs are parking enforcement officers....the police dont have time to look at discs as they walk their beat....oh, i forgot...they dont walk a beat anymore, too dangerous so they go by car.

But as with all gov initiatives, nothing will change.

Look at the sale of number plates law.
You must produce your V5, Passport, driving licence, utility bill etc to buy new plates by law.

Or just go to eBay and buy there.....government fail again

And i did say theoretically

The tax disc was to some a degree a deterrent, any car on the road down my road would be reported to DVLA/crime stoppers you cant firt around here with out the neighbourhood watchers clocking you.
and anyone can find out if a car has insurance online. at askmid
Steve

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[Minxy]

just had another thought on this.....

My tax runs out at the end of this month and my insurance runs out at the beginning of next month (both hyperthetical dates)

I go buy 12 months tax on the last day of this month and my insurance expires on the following day....which i dont renew.

The insurance was valid and proved at the time of purchasing road tax yet subsequently i could drive for almost a full year uninsured (theoretically)

I don't know if it's still correct, but in the past didn't your insurance certificate have to have a certain duration on it in order to get a tax disc issues? I'm sure we've had this ourselves in the past when our certificate ran out the next month and had to take in our new 'temporary' document .... I think! :Blush:

 

[pappajohn]

I don't know if it's still correct, but in the past didn't your insurance certificate have to have a certain duration on it in order to get a tax disc issues? I'm sure we've had this ourselves in the past when our certificate ran out the next month and had to take in our new 'temporary' document .... I think! :Blush:

insurance only needs to be valid on day of purchase to first day of new tax.

As for the none display of a disc.....
Today, i took charge of a different work van, it has been in daily use since our return to work on the 6th jan.

I found the new 6month tax disc under a load of papers on the dashboard..........tax expiry date = 31 june....which means the van has been driven for 14 days without displaying a disc.

It is parked roadside every day.

 

[Jaws]

And what happens when we travel abroad ?

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