Serious full timing question (1 Viewer)

Dec 28, 2011
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This may have been asked before, but I'll ask anyway.

I know that if we full time we still have to have a "base" address for insurance, licence etc.
So how do travellers get away with being full timers, assuming they hold the relevant legal documents, and why can't we register as travellers and have the same rights ?
Basically, travellers are full timers, so what is the difference ?
 

DuxDeluxe

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"Should"


They must have a registered address somewhere, I suppose
 
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knokinonabit
Dec 28, 2011
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So how do fairground travelers do it when they dont have full time winter quarters?

I know some fairground people and they invariably have a base, where they can service the rides, store ones they are not using etc. and these are often permanent sites where they can also live in their trailers, caravans and 5th wheelers. They have an address at these places and that is their base address. They also don't call themselves travellers, they are Showmen, which is a different thing altogether.
Some of them own homes because they only travel to shows in the show season.
 
Jul 28, 2010
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This may have been asked before, but I'll ask anyway.

I know that if we full time we still have to have a "base" address for insurance, licence etc.
So how do travellers get away with being full timers, assuming they hold the relevant legal documents, and why can't we register as travellers and have the same rights ?
Basically, travellers are full timers, so what is the difference ?

You will find gypsy travellers have one address that several of them will use
This big brother country is so hard to live as one might want too
I have fulltimed for three years. Luck I have family who let me use there address
But it's not easy

Power to the little man. !!!! :ROFLMAO:
 
OP
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knokinonabit
Dec 28, 2011
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You will find gypsy travellers have one address that several of them will use
This big brother country is so hard to live as one might want too
I have fulltimed for three years. Luck I have family who let me use there address
But it's not easy

Power to the little man. !!!! :ROFLMAO:


I understand what you mean.
A friend of mine who is a driving instructor has been used a lot by one particular family and he said that all of their driving licences give the same address, which is the name of the matriarch of the family, and is a one bedroom bungalow. According to their driving licences there are about 12 of them living there that he knows of. :Eeek:
 

FULL TIMER

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They don't pay taxes?opp5
Obviously you havn't met the travellers I know, all running legitimate businesses although most are now settled. As for the original question I've never really got around to asking but wouldn't mind knowing, I know some use the address of the traveller sites which is ok if they are registered there I suppose, no doubt others will use some one on a site or a house dweller as an address much as other fulltimers do. but for those who genuinely are travellers on the move I have no idea how they get around the problem.
 

FULL TIMER

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So how do fairground travelers do it when they dont have full time winter quarters?

Most have storage yards where they can overwinter so they can use those as an address, there are at least 2 yards around Norwich that I know of

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pappajohn

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a reply to a freedom of information request in Northern Ireland.......would expect it tobe the same here
ern Ireland

22 September 2008

Our ref DV08C40

19 September 2008

Dear Mr Jackson

Freedom of Information Act 2000

I am writing to confirm that the Agency has now completed its search for
the information about policies and procedures for members of the
travelling community and other drivers in terms of driving licences or
vehicle registration who do not have a fixed address, which you requested
on 3 September 2008.

Driving Licences

DVA does not have a policy relating specifically to the handling of
applications for driver licences made by members of the Travelling
Community or other persons without a permanent fixed address.

It is a requirement of the Road Traffic (Northern Ireland) Order 1981 (the
1981 Order) that applicants for Northern Ireland driving licences meet the
relevant residency requirement. In the majority of cases, the applicant
must reside in Northern Ireland. In practical terms, the residency
requirement is met by the provision of a postal address within Northern
Ireland to which the driving licence will be issued. Where doubts arise
as to whether the applicant lives at the address supplied, he may be asked
to provide additional information. Each case will be dealt with on an
individual basis.

A valid address is a recognised postal address (excluding business
premises) in Northern Ireland at which the applicant for a driving licence
lives at the time of the application. It is a further requirement of the
1981 Order that the holder of a licence must inform the Department if the
details relating to the holder's address cease to be correct.

Vehicle Registration

Each member state issues Registration Certificates in accordance with
Directive 1999/37. Each Member state will recognise a Registration
Certificate issued in another Member State.

Each Member State issues Registration Certificate in accordance with the
Directive under its own national law. NI issues Registration Certificates
(V5C's) under the provision of the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act
1994 (as amended) (VERA) and the Roads Vehicles (Registration and
Licensing) Regulations 2002. That certificate must be in the form
prescribed by the Directive. The Directive provides that the Certificate
must contain the name or business name of the keeper and his/her address
in the Member State of registration on the date of issue of the document.

DVA is charged with maintaining and improving the integrity and accuracy
of the Vehicle Register on behalf of the Secretary of State for Transport.
The Register maintained at DVA is based on vehicles and their keepers. The
register is essentially maintained to assist in revenue collection, road
safety and law enforcement. Therefore it is essential for these purposes
that the vehicle record shows the correct name and address of the person
in possession of, and responsible for, the vehicle.

Motorists who want to become keepers of a vehicle registered with DVA must
by law supply a NI address. The requirement for a NI address is in place
to ensure that vehicle excise duty can be effectively collected. It also
ensures that in most cases drivers of cars can be contacted quickly by the
likes of the police, or other enforcement bodies.

The information supplied to you above continues to be protected by the
Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988. You are free to use it for your
own purposes, including any non-commercial research you are doing and for
the purposes of news reporting. Any other re-use, for example commercial
publication, would require the permission of the copyright holder. Most
documents supplied by Driver & Vehicle Agency will have been produced by
government officials and will be Crown Copyright. You can find details on
the arrangements for re-using Crown Copyright from the Office for Public
Sector Information at:

[1]http://www.opsi.gov.uk/click-use/index.htm

Information you receive which is not subject to Crown Copyright continues
to be protected by the copyright of the person, or organisation, from
which the information originated. You must ensure that you gain their
permission before reproducing any third party (non Crown Copyright)
information.

Under the terms of the legislation, if you are unhappy with this response
you have the right to seek a review by the Department in the first
instance, within two calendar months of the date of this letter. If you
wish to do so, please write to

Director of Corporate Services
Room 6.15
Department of the Environment
Clarence Court
Adelaide Street
Belfast BT2 8GB

If after such a review you are still unhappy with the response, you have
the right to appeal to the Information Commissioner who will undertake an
independent review.

If you have any queries about this letter, please contact me at telephone
number 028 703 41548. Please remember to quote the reference number above
in any future communications.

Yours sincerely

S Moore
DVA Information Unit
Driver & Vehicle Agency
County Hall
Coleraine
BT51 3TA
 
OP
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knokinonabit
Dec 28, 2011
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So basically, according to the information supplied by Pappajohn, there is no such thing as a traveller as everyone is required to have a permanent address to be able to hold a licence and register a vehicle.

OR

All of the people who call themselves travellers and live full time "on the road" are breaking the law by definition, because they have not informed the DVLA that the details on their licences have changed because they no longer live at the address stated, so they may possibly be un-insured as well, and their vehicles not licenced.

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Easyliving

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My wife and I fulltimed for a while and had no problem at all with DVLA, bank etc.

We used our son's address for our driving licence, I didn't have to pretend to live there, I told the chap at the DVLA that we were living full time in our van for a while and had no fixed address. He got our new licences organised in about 5 minutes over the phone. Same thing with the van logbook, just sent it in with son's address.

Same with the bank, just phoned them and told them the same thing. They just want an address to put on your account details where they can write to you if they have to.

Only potential minefield is insurance for the van. Comfort are the only brokers who offer proper full time insurance and its expensive - ours was £850 for the year. If you don't tell them that you don't have a fixed address you can potentially come unstuck if they ask for utility bills, check voters register etc which they warn you they might do.

Paul
 
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knokinonabit
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So, as Easyliving says, it's just a matter of providing an address that you don't have to live at really. Mmmmmmm, let me read Pappajohns info again.
 

pappajohn

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So, as Easyliving says, it's just a matter of providing an address that you don't have to live at really. Mmmmmmm, let me read Pappajohns info again.

this part jumps off the page though....

A valid address is a recognised postal address (excluding business
premises) in Northern Ireland at which the applicant for a driving licence
lives at the time of the application. It is a further requirement of the
1981 Order that the holder of a licence must inform the Department if the
details relating to the holder's address cease to be correct.

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OP
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knokinonabit
Dec 28, 2011
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Driving Licences

DVA does not have a policy relating specifically to the handling of
applications for driver licences made by members of the Travelling
Community or other persons without a permanent fixed address.

It is a requirement of the Road Traffic (Northern Ireland) Order 1981 (the
1981 Order) that applicants for Northern Ireland driving licences meet the
relevant residency requirement. In the majority of cases, the applicant
must reside in Northern Ireland. In practical terms, the residency
requirement is met by the provision of a postal address within Northern
Ireland to which the driving licence will be issued. Where doubts arise
as to whether the applicant lives at the address supplied, he may be asked
to provide additional information. Each case will be dealt with on an
individual basis.

A valid address is a recognised postal address (excluding business
premises) in Northern Ireland at which the applicant for a driving licence
lives at the time of the application. It is a further requirement of the
1981 Order that the holder of a licence must inform the Department if the
details relating to the holder's address cease to be correct.


This bit seems to imply that you must live there, and if you don't you must inform the DVLA, who will presumably want a new address.

Pappajohn beat me to it.
 
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OP
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knokinonabit
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DVA is charged with maintaining and improving the integrity and accuracy
of the Vehicle Register on behalf of the Secretary of State for Transport.
The Register maintained at DVA is based on vehicles and their keepers. The
register is essentially maintained to assist in revenue collection, road
safety and law enforcement. Therefore it is essential for these purposes
that the vehicle record shows the correct name and address of the person
in possession of, and responsible for, the vehicle.

Motorists who want to become keepers of a vehicle registered with DVA must
by law supply a NI address. The requirement for a NI address is in place
to ensure that vehicle excise duty can be effectively collected. It also
ensures that in most cases drivers of cars can be contacted quickly by the
likes of the police, or other enforcement bodies.


This bit stands out as well.
 
OP
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knokinonabit
Dec 28, 2011
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The reason that I asked the question was not to have a go at travellers.
I had thought that if there was some rule or exemption that they were using, then why can't the rest of us who want to full time use that as well.

Just goes to show what good, honest citizens they all are, by abiding by the rules. ::bigsmile:

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Aug 18, 2011
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But they supposedly claim not to, otherwise they wouldn't be classed as travellers.

There is a town in Ireland where they all own houses. They only go back for funerals. BUSBY:Smile:
 

electricscott

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My wife and I fulltimed for a while and had no problem at all with DVLA, bank etc.

We used our son's address for our driving licence, I didn't have to pretend to live there, I told the chap at the DVLA that we were living full time in our van for a while and had no fixed address. He got our new licences organised in about 5 minutes over the phone. Same thing with the van logbook, just sent it in with son's address.

Same with the bank, just phoned them and told them the same thing. They just want an address to put on your account details where they can write to you if they have to.

Only potential minefield is insurance for the van. Comfort are the only brokers who offer proper full time insurance and its expensive - ours was [HI]£850 for the year[/HI]. If you don't tell them that you don't have a fixed address you can potentially come unstuck if they ask for utility bills, check voters register etc which they warn you they might do.

Paul

don't know how you managed that we were quoted £2000 and I have heard £4000 per annum is not unheard of since comfort are the only ones willing to offer this type of policy. the question I ask is why since the risk of your MH being stolen is less.
 

Easyliving

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don't know how you managed that we were quoted £2000 and I have heard £4000 per annum is not unheard of since comfort are the only ones willing to offer this type of policy. the question I ask is why since the risk of your MH being stolen is less.


And I thought £850 was a lot! Now we are not full timing I pay just under £300 but Comfort want to know where it is parked overnight etc. I imagine fulltiming insurance is expensive because you could potentially leave it parked in the most high risk area of the country, wherever that is, on a regular basis.

Paul

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JJ

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I have full timed for over 25 years.

I have an address I use for my UK licence and bank account.

In Portugal I have an address for insurance and bank etc.

In my experience if I don't bother the bureaucrats, they don't bother me.

I just went fulltiming... No one has bothered with me since.

JJ :Cool:

PS. Hymer insurance (plus recovery and any driver) around €245.

 
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knokinonabit
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I have full timed for over 25 years.

I have an address I use for my UK licence and bank account.

In Portugal I have an address for insurance and bank etc.

In my experience if I don't bother the bureaucrats, they don't bother me.

I just went fulltiming... No one has bothered with me since.

JJ :Cool:

PS. Hymer insurance (plus recovery and any driver) around €245.



I am prying now. :Blush:
Does that mean that you are insured by a company in Portugal, as opposed to a UK company, hence the seemingly low price ?
Do you also have a Portuguese licence as well as a UK one ?

If it means compromising yourself then don't reply on the forum, but if you do want to tell me, then possibly a pm.
If you don't want to divulge your personal details that's fine by me. :thumb:

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Anna

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"Do you also have a Portuguese licence as well as a UK one?"

We're French residents but retain our UK driving licence, which is European. Makes no difference to our French insurance company
 
OP
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knokinonabit
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"Do you also have a Portuguese licence as well as a UK one?"

We're French residents but retain our UK driving licence, which is European. Makes no difference to our French insurance company



Sorry about the stupid questions, but, as French residents do you give a UK address or your French one when renewal time comes round for your licence ?
 

Anna

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Sorry about the stupid questions, but, as French residents do you give a UK address or your French one when renewal time comes round for your licence ?

On renewal, which, in our case, will be when we reach 70, we will be required to change to French driving licences as we will then have to give our address here.

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