VED rates [again] (2 Viewers)

[ericonabike]

I've just bought a 2007 Autocruise Starseeker. Its max weight [according to the handbook] is 3850kg - ordinarily, I think, it was 3500, but mine has the 3 litre engine, which I'm guessing led to an increase in plated weight? Anyway, I have a pre-1997 licence, so that's fine, even though it hadn't been noticed/pointed out by the dealer. But the V5C states 'revenue weight' as 3500kg.

My undestanding of the VED rules is that if it's over 3500 it's classed as 'private HGV' which somewhat bizarrely gives a vehicle tax of £165 as against the £220 for PLG [which is what the dealer paid half of to give me six months tax at time of sale]. So - should I advise DVLC that the V5C is wrong and that I should only be paying £165 a year? Or would that open a bureaucratic can of worms that would be best left undisturbed?

 

[vwalan]

hi, somewhere in a door jamb or under the bonnet there should be a plate stating all the weights . could be a sticker . but tell us what that says then we can advise better . if that plate says 3,500kg then you will have wsork to do.
the engine size may not in crease your gvw . but if its heavier could give you less payload .

 

[estcres]

Mine used to be PLG at 3500Kg but I upgraded to 3850Kg and DVLA reclassed it as P/HGV and I now pay the lower Vehicle Excise Duty (Now known as Car Tax)

The main problem I have encountered is that some routes are limited to 3500Kg and if I was caught on them, by CCTV for example, I could get a ticket and fine. Also some car parks have a weight limit and all the parking attendant has to look at is your Car tax Disc and see it is P/HGV therefore over 3500Kg.

Having a GVW of 3850Kg is handy if you are carrying a lot of kit for a long term trip, but, it does reduce the Towing weight.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[pappajohn]

Mine used to be PLG at 3500Kg but I upgraded to 3850Kg and DVLA reclassed it as P/HGV and I now pay the lower Vehicle Excise Duty (Now known as Car Tax)

The main problem I have encountered is that some routes are limited to 3500Kg and if I was caught on them, by CCTV for example, I could get a ticket and fine. Also some car parks have a weight limit and all the parking attendant has to look at is your Car tax Disc and see it is P/HGV therefore over 3500Kg.

Having a GVW of 3850Kg is handy if you are carrying a lot of kit for a long term trip, but, it does reduce the Towing weight.

it can also seriously reduce your payload if the plate states 3850kg and the V5 states 3500kg

many are 'converter uprated' to 3850kg to account for more, and heavier, equipment yet still allow a decent payload.

you need to visit your local DVLA office with photo's of the van, showing the number plates, and readable photo of the vin plate.

you also need a 'change of revenue weight' form from a post office, your old tax disc and V5....for good measure take your insurance and MOT but they shouldnt be needed....unless you dont take them then they will be needed oh:

you will have to buy a new disc for 6 or 12 months while you are there, your choice but must be one or the other, as no changes will take place if you dont.
you will be refunded any remaining full months on the old disc.

dont delay as ALL local offices close for good between october and december this year, just when will depend where you live, after that you deal with Swansea...and god help you then.

dont be put off if the desk jockey says 'cant do that'....they can !
either ask to see a supervisor or go back later and speak to a different jockey..

 

[ericonabike]

Hmm..thought this might prove more complex than at first sight. Will try to locate the VIN plate tomorrow and report back.

 

[pappajohn]

if its a fiat, peugeot, citroen etc the vin plate will be on the bonnet slam panel...ford, merc, VW etc, not sure.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Allanm]

Of course it may have been down rated to 3500kg by the previous owner. Vin plate will be on bonnet slam as Pappajohn says and you might see one inside one of the doors. If it has been down rated the original weight plate should also be visible.
Of course, a down grade, while enabling it to be driven on a lesser licence will seriously reduce payload
You can uprate again. See SvTech

Allan

 

[Taran_Las]

If you uprate a vehicle to become taxation class PHG does this affect what type of MOT you require?


(Eric, sorry to hijack your thread but its a question I've wanted to ask for some time and it is relevant to your original question.)

 

[keith]

If you uprate a vehicle to become taxation class PHG does this affect what type of MOT you require?


(Eric, sorry to hijack your thread but its a question I've wanted to ask for some time and it is relevant to your original question.)

No

I have uprated my Starseeker to 3850kg. Engine size is not a factor but tyre size and weight rating is. You may find (as I did) the tyres are already the higher rated ones.

i asked about the 3580kg stated in the hand book but was told I would need to go back to Autocruise for them to sort it out.

I fitted air suspension and SVTEC sorted it out for me, I'm now waiting for the DVLA to change the V5

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[peter marshall]

If you uprate a vehicle to become taxation class PHG does this affect what type of MOT you require?


(Eric, sorry to hijack your thread but its a question I've wanted to ask for some time and it is relevant to your original question.)

I upped my last van to 3700 just took it to the local mot station. Pete

Ps it depends on their ramps etc to lift the va,n we also have one with a drive over pit.

 

[vwalan]

all motor caravans are class4 mot . the same as a car . even a big 32 ton truck converted to a m,home has a car test . but as been said some garages cant test them due to the physical size weight .
and the tax would be phgv at 165 quid .

 

[pappajohn]

in addition to Alans post.....

it MUST be registered as a motor caravan, regardless of weight and printed on the V5, to be a class IV mot.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[ericonabike]

OK - this could become a multi-purpose thread but hopefully all useful info!

Keith - the tyres are Bridgestone Aravis, light truck, rated max load 1120kg I assume they are ok for the 3850kg rating?

The VIN plate shows four rows of figures: 3500, 6000, 1: 1850 and 2: 2000. I assume the latter two show the axle weights, giving a combined MTPLM of 3850?

The handbook from Autocruise gives MTPLM as 3850, MIRO 3220 - and so if it was plated as 3500 the payload would be pretty thin.

The V5 describes it as motorcaravn, tax class private light goods, revenue weight 3500kg.

So...as I see it, the V5 is wrong and needs to be changed to revenue weight 3850 and tax class HGV? This may bring disadvantages as far as which roads I can use, but as it stands, it would seem to be the correct action to take?

 

[vwalan]

OK - this could become a multi-purpose thread but hopefully all useful info!

Keith - the tyres are Bridgestone Aravis, light truck, rated max load 1120kg I assume they are ok for the 3850kg rating?

The VIN plate shows four rows of figures: 3500, 6000, 1: 1850 and 2: 2000. I assume the latter two show the axle weights, giving a combined MTPLM of 3850?

The handbook from Autocruise gives MTPLM as 3850, MIRO 3220 - and so if it was plated as 3500 the payload would be pretty thin.

The V5 describes it as motorcaravn, tax class private light goods, revenue weight 3500kg.

So...as I see it, the V5 is wrong and needs to be changed to revenue weight 3850 and tax class HGV? This may bring disadvantages as far as which roads I can use, but as it stands, it would seem to be the correct action to take?

no ,the plate says 3,500kg . so the log book is correct and so is your tax .
the other two are front and rear axle maximum weights . these always add up to more .thats to allow for weight distribution from front to rear etc as load is put in or removed .
you will have to have a word with some one like sv tec . you could try the converters but i doubt they will be of use . think it could be the handbook thats wrong or you are reading it wrong . but ring svtec 01772 621800 ideally gareth marsh is the one you need to speak to. he is very knowledgable on this sort of thing .

 

[keith]

OK - this could become a multi-purpose thread but hopefully all useful info!

Keith - the tyres are Bridgestone Aravis, light truck, rated max load 1120kg I assume they are ok for the 3850kg rating?

The VIN plate shows four rows of figures: 3500, 6000, 1: 1850 and 2: 2000. I assume the latter two show the axle weights, giving a combined MTPLM of 3850?

The handbook from Autocruise gives MTPLM as 3850, MIRO 3220 - and so if it was plated as 3500 the payload would be pretty thin.

The V5 describes it as motorcaravn, tax class private light goods, revenue weight 3500kg.

So...as I see it, the V5 is wrong and needs to be changed to revenue weight 3850 and tax class HGV? This may bring disadvantages as far as which roads I can use, but as it stands, it would seem to be the correct action to take?

They look like the right tyres and that's exactly the same figures as mine so your OK on that point.

SVtech told me uprating to 3700 is simple, just a new plate/label (and their fee), if you want 3850 air suspension will allow it to go to 3850 and increase the rear axle to 2240, equalling more payload. Yes the original payload would be small without upratingthe van.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[ericonabike]

Hmm - seems this is going in a different direction from the one I had envisaged. Namely a need to increase the MTPLM as I suspect I'm running illegally! Let me explain...

The handbook is clear - MTPLM for the Peugeot Starseeker 3.0 litre 160 HdiTD of 3850 kg, MIRO 3220 and hence payload of 630. But if the MTPLM is actually 3500, then the payload is a mere 280 kg. Add a passenger at 75 kg, and the 'mass of essential habitattion equipment' specified in the handbook as 126 kg, then that's down to 79 kg. Two bikes on the back, a solar panel, satellite system, prodigious quantities of wine and beer - a visit to the weighbridge looks in order. Followed by a replating.

Incidentally, a bit more Googling brought up the following - http://www.simplymotorhomes.co.uk/2008/01/22/starseeker-recall/

Seems like all roads lead to SVTech - relevant extract from the above link is below:

"If a customer feels the vehicle payload is insufficient for his needs it is possible to uprate the vehicle to an MTPLM of 3850kg giving an optional payload of 412kg.
For this upgrade we recommend the customer contacts SV Tech, contact detail below. It is not necessary to add Air ride systems for this upgrade to be approved.
Contact: – Gareth Marsh (Sales manager)
SV Tech 5b Talbot Road, Leyland, Lancs. PR25 2ZF. Tel: +44 (0)1772 621800Please note – The upgrade is for a standard vehicles, Air ride suspension is not a requirement to obtain the upgrade."

 

[estcres]

Have you got an ALKO chassis modification?

 

[vwalan]

if you need to have more payload then it is the way to do it .
using sv tec is to make it easier for you . you could do it without them ,give it a try. the plate on vehicle and the log book match .
perhaps you bought the wrong vehicle .
engine size as nothing to do with payload .

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[ericonabike]

Not an ALKO chassis.

Absolutely delighted with the van - just need to get the bureaucracy sorted. I suspect previous owners were driving it oblivious to the weight aspect. And it does drive superbly...

 

[estcres]

SVtech is your route then

 

[Allanm]

SVtech is your route then

I had mine done from 3500 to 3700 by SvTech. No mods needed and the cost was £312. I went to my local DVLA office to change the tax class, came away with a new tax disc and a promise of a £50 refund. It took about 2 weeks from phoning SvTech to getting the new tax disc in the windscreen.
I'm probably mostly running under 3500 but it gives me great peace of mind if I should ever get stopped.
Allan

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[ericonabike]

Thanks all for the assistance, and I can see what needs to be done. But just to stand back from it for a moment- how will uprating my van have any effect upon its safety or roadworthiness? It seems to be simply a paper exercise with no change being made to the van. Slightly confused still...

 

[vwalan]

since when as safety really been part of the law .
you can lower a 7.5 ton vehicle to 3.5ton doesnt make it twice as safe .

 

[Allanm]

Thanks all for the assistance, and I can see what needs to be done. But just to stand back from it for a moment- how will uprating my van have any effect upon its safety or roadworthiness? It seems to be simply a paper exercise with no change being made to the van. Slightly confused still...

A lot of vans are built to take more than their plated weight, and these are the ones that SvTech will be able to help you uprate without modifications, as long as you dont want to increase the payload too much. They are experts at this sort of thing so can assist you with any further questions.
If you need to go a little higher, generally new higher rated tyres and rear air assisted suspension will be needed.
Building a van that fits below the 3500kg mark means it can be driven by almost anyone with a car licence, over that and the manufacturers market is reduced somewhat.

So, as long as SVTech can update the weight for you, safety is not compromised.

Allan

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[ericonabike]

Update - just been to the local weighbridge and have a cert for 3380kg. That's with me in it, 3/4 tank of fuel, and most of the bits and pieces we take away with us. But add a passenger at 75 k and water at 90 k and it's already 45k over, without bikes and booze! Seems Autocruise were flying close to the wind with this model if they were selling it as 3500 - payload is miniscule.

Rang SVTech who confirmed upgrade to 3700 ok without mods, 3850 with air ride on back. Am now choosing which route to take...

Thanks for assistance on this.