Motorhome stolen (1 Viewer)

[bigkev2000]

It's been nearly a year since I had my first motorhome stolen cut a story short I transferred the insurance on to the new one so I could pick it up the new one.sold the old one on eBay got it out of storage in the morning it was sold but it got stolen with no insurance hurt my pocket but blow me its been found a young couple brought it of the Internet what I'm getting onto the police said they are willing to negotiate a price with me as they have spent money on it I feel a bit Obligated as the police said it could go to court and the motorhome would end up in storage and it will cost me a lot of bucks so do I accept a reasonable offer or do I take a chance and see whether it would go to court

 

[keithcdb]

Take the cash, it will never feel like yours again after it being stolen :Angry:

 

[jhorsf]

I do not understand if it belongs to you it must be yours not theirs why should you loose out?If the police say they cannot do anything I WOULD STEAL IT BACK

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[bigkev2000]

Yes that's what I thought but not the misses

 

[bigkev2000]

I do not understand if it belongs to you it must be yours not theirs why should you loose out?If the police say they cannot do anything I WOULD STEAL IT BACK

Yea thought of that but it's in there pound

 

[Minxy]

If you are a member of the Caravan Club give their legal section a ring and they will advise you, if not then there are a few organisations out that who can tell you your legal position. However, saying that, it is yours and the fact that they have spent money on it is irrelevant, it is still your property and they have 'received' stolen goods and therefore need to take action themselves to try to recoup their losses from whoever they bought it from, it is not YOUR fault they bought it.

If you are able to remove the stuff they have paid for without damaging your van, then you can always let them have it back, but I'm not sure you actually have to in the circumstances. You really DO need to get proper advice on this before you do or agree to anything. The Police are trying to lessen the blow to the young couple but it isn't up to you to make things 'better' for them, no matter how much you feel you should.:Sad:

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Wildbill]

Yea thought of that but it's in there pound

did post but egnor me a mad moment beer whisky fags: Wacko::Wacko::Wacko::Wacko::Wacko::Wacko:

 

[errpaul]

It doesn't matter that they have bought it, it remains your property and should be returned to you. Very very harsh and unlucky for the couple who bought it, but it really is tough for them...they lose what they paid as it is their responsibility to ensure its not stolen (unless they bought through a dealer who said they had done the relevant checks).

 

[errpaul]

I should add that as the legal owner you are responsible for any of the costs of recovery and storage.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[jhorsf]

Tell the police you would like your stolen property returned if they say they are keeping it as evidence they can hardly charge you for storage can they I would say get a legal mind to help you the police will want as little form filling and work as they can get so watch you do not loose out by talking you into anything without a solicitors advice you may get this free for a quick consult in some areas. Maybe Chris would have some advice

 

[jhorsf]

Link Removed


It seems it can be complicated if they do not hand back your van and you have to take them to court but as the police have it ask them to return it if they refuse ask them why then ask a solicitor for advice

 

[bigkev2000]

I am a member of the caravan club unable to get there telephone number for there legal team has any one got it thanks

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[ourcampersbeentrashed]

As long as it was reported stolen initially, the police must seize the vehicle. At that point they are given the opportunity to remove their belongings. It then gets "restored" to the original owner ie you.

Note the use of belongings that is the police term usually used, that is the point they should have removed anything they felt belonged to them. Police always at the end ask "have you got everything". this is normal procedure.

If they police have not already seized the vehicle, then you should insist on this, or insist that officers accompany you to the address and restore it to you in person.

They dont usually need to keep the vehicle itself as evidence as they can take photos fingerprints etc. *So there is usually no reason for it to be held as evidence until any police court case.
the people who had as far as they were concerned legitimately bought your stolen motorhome have to pursue the person they bought it from for their money back. They can also pursue them for compensation for all the additions they put on the vehicle.

If they have actually modernised or added things to your vehicle you can actually claim criminal damage against them (unless things have changed) as they have effectively defaced/altered the original vehicle.

If you decide to remove their additions and return them, just remember that any hole made will need resealing, any wallpaper etc damaged will need replacing and they have to pay for all of that.

Remember had the vehicle had insurance at the point of theft the situation would have been different. You would have received a payout and the insurance company could have resold the vehicle back to these people and claimed off them.

 

[Minxy]

I am a member of the caravan club unable to get there telephone number for there legal team has any one got it thanks

You need to log onto the CC site below to be able to get the phone number, alternatively I think it's in their magazine.

Broken Link Removed

 

[sdc77]

Some good knee jerk advice going on here
Handling stolen goods really has to have an element of dishonesty for it to be a crime..
The new owners don't appear to be dishonest.. So it's now just a civil matter over ownership. (it really is)
(obviously the original thief is still wanted etc)
Insurance companies normally sort these things out... But with no cover it's going to be down to the victim (s) to sort it

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[TheBig1]

the people who bought it in good faith probably had it insured so it is up to them to claim for their loss etc and you get the van returned by the police

 

[sedge]

Motor insurance does not protect you from accidentally buying a stolen vehicle!

Their monetary loss is not one of the risks covered by motor insurance - it ain't theft of the vehicle, it ain't fire damage to the vehicle, it ain't a third party claim caused by the vehicle or it's driver.

It's a shame but there you go. The vehicle is yours, end of, subject to the comments made by others above.

Oh - they can cancel the road tax and get a refund on it.

 

[Chris]

It is definately still your van legally because the person the couple bought it off did not have legal title so couldnt pass legal title on.

The only interest the couple might have is any extras they added which might enhance the value of your van.

A lot depends on the value of the van. The more its worth the more its worth fighting for.

Check all your household and motor insurance policies to see if you have got legal expenses insurance. Often this is included without your knowing and it can reduce your headache if you know someone else will be picking up your legal bill.

I believe that if the parties can't agree the police will commence an action in the County court and the parties then have to fight for the van.

Keep an eye on those police storage charges.

Good luck.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Scout]

dosnt this thread echo what happend a few weeks back to somebody with a caravan? I sort of recall it in the news?

 

[steveclecy]

Some good knee jerk advice going on here
Handling stolen goods really has to have an element of dishonesty for it to be a crime..
The new owners don't appear to be dishonest.. So it's now just a civil matter over ownership. (it really is)
(obviously the original thief is still wanted etc)
Insurance companies normally sort these things out... But with no cover it's going to be down to the victim (s) to sort it

This post provides the best advice so far. Consider using the Police Property Act.

I quote:

Police (Property) Act 1897
The Police (Property) Act 1897 (“PPA”) serves three purposes. First, it is a cost-effective and practical way in which the police can dispose of property which is no longer required, especially where it may be controversial to return to the person who had possession of the property when seized. Secondly, it gives the public a route by which they can seek the return of property. Lastly, it allows for disposal of unclaimed property, provided the Police (Property) Regulations 1997 are followed.
Section 1 provides:
“Where any property has come into the possession of the police in connection with their investigation of a suspected offence a court of summary jurisdiction may, on application, either by an officer of police or by a claimant of the property make an order for the delivery of the property to the person appearing to the magistrate or court to be the owner thereof, or if the owner, cannot be ascertained, make such order with respect to the property as to the magistrate or court may seem meet.”
After six months from the making of such an order, the rights of any other person to that property are extinguished.

You need to apply to a Magistrates Court (the "court of summary jurisdiction") for a hearing, which you are entitled to do. But be careful, the law on ownership is not simple. Unquestionably you owned it. It was stolen from you. The people who bought it, if they can prove they acted reasonably and responsibly, also have a claim. The old adage (and that's all it is) that possession is nine points of the law simply means that it is easier to keep something that is already in possession.

Steve

 

[eddie]

The best advice so far is from Chris, a Solicitor, advice given freely.

The Police are there as public servants to uphold he law, not try to make it.

I had a car blocking me in my drive for three days once and I had to kick up stink to get anyone to do anything about it. Once I had a senior officer involved, the road was closed off, a big lorry turned up and the thing was picked up and taken straight to the compound. Before then, it was as if I was being difficult with a " can't you wait" attitude as if I was being difficult.

Ask every police office that refuses to act on your behalf to assist you in the return of you stolen property for their name rank and number, with a view to being able to consider you actions once your stolen property has been returned to you and insist that you are contacted by a senior officer.

I do wonder sometimes some moron posts something offensive on Facebook or Twitter and the Police have resources to do some real Police work and track the "criminal" down because in a drunken moment he or she have called someone "gay, fat, brown, yellow" yet a Motorhome gets stolen and your being persuaded to take a little money and not make a fuss!

It's yours, it was stolen and the police should be helping you recover your property.

Go higher up the food chain !

Eddie

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Chris]

I think Steveleccy is right about the Act that covers this type of claim. I have done about 2 of those cases but it was ages and ages ago so I am a bit rusty.

I am though confident in saying that the present keepers haven't a hope of holding onto this van whether they acted reasonably or not. There is a Latin saying that covers this type of thing which I will probably get wrong - Nemo dat quod non habet (or something like that ) which means "You cannot sell what you do not own". In other words legal title to the van can never pass to the current keepers because whoever sold it to them never owned it.

 

[eddie]

The best advice so far is from Chris, a Solicitor, advice given freely.

The Police are there as public servants to uphold he law, not try to make it.

I had a car blocking me in my drive for three days once and I had to kick up stink to get anyone to do anything about it. Once I had a senior officer involved, the road was closed off, a big lorry turned up and the thing was picked up and taken straight to the compound. Before then, it was as if I was being difficult with a " can't you wait" attitude as if I was being difficult.

Ask every police office that refuses to act on your behalf to assist you in the return of you stolen property for their name rank and number, with a view to being able to consider you actions once your stolen property has been returned to you and insist that you are contacted by a senior officer.

I do wonder sometimes some moron posts something offensive on Facebook or Twitter and the Police have resources to do some real Police work and track the "criminal" down because in a drunken moment he or she have called someone "gay, fat, brown, yellow" yet a Motorhome gets stolen and your being persuaded to take a little money and not make a fuss!

It's yours, it was stolen and the police should be helping you recover your property.

Go higher up the food chain !

Eddie

Just re-read this and Steves post and it wasn't intended as a go at him or his adviceoh:

Eddie

 

[eddie]

I think Steveleccy is right about the Act that covers this type of claim. I have done about 2 of those cases but it was ages and ages ago so I am a bit rusty.

I am though confident in saying that the present keepers haven't a hope of holding onto this van whether they acted reasonably or not. There is a Latin saying that covers this type of thing which I will probably get wrong - Nemo dat quod non habet (or something like that ) which means "You cannot sell what you do not own". In other words legal title to the van can never pass to the current keepers because whoever sold it to them never owned it.

What would happen if he Simply turned up with the keys, the vehicle registration document and took it home? Also it is his legal property shouldn't he re-insure it?

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[wanderer]

So how have the new owners got a valid V5 registration , if it came from the person who stole it how did they verify he was the owner . Was it taxed, if not when they tried to tax it wont it come up stolen on the database

 

[Scout]

here we go, very simular case

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rotect-human-rights-travellers-living-it.html

 

[Chris]

Yes , but they are living in that one.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Scout]

Yes , but they are living in that one.

well lets hope the dont move in sharpish them,

whoops no not possible it in the police poundoh:

 

[trophychap]

Am I correct in assuming this young couple have bought your motorhome via an internet auction site, and for whatever reason didn't get the log book with it at the handover and later smelling a rat went to the police?

Now in all honesty ask yourself what is my bottom line on this?

Assuming that you don't want the motorhome back due to not wanting two, how much are you prepared to lose?

I would think it most unlikely that they would be prepared to pay you its true value! As they then would have paid well over the odds for the motorhome.

Personally I would feel I had been robbed if I received less than that.

 

[Minxy]

It's been nearly a year since I had my first motorhome stolen cut a story short I transferred the insurance on to the new one so I could pick it up the new one.sold the old one on eBay got it out of storage in the morning it was sold but it got stolen with no insurance hurt my pocket but blow me its been found a young couple brought it of the Internet what I'm getting onto the police said they are willing to negotiate a price with me as they have spent money on it I feel a bit Obligated as the police said it could go to court and the motorhome would end up in storage and it will cost me a lot of bucks so do I accept a reasonable offer or do I take a chance and see whether it would go to court

How did they couple buy it - was it Ebay? Or was it just a simple advertising site? There MAY be some redress for them depending on how they got it.

What VALUE are we talking about here for your old van, £1000, £10000, £20000? This is quite pertinent IMV as to how 'hot and bothered' you are getting ... I'm making the assuming its towards the cheaper end, and as you'd already 'assumed' you were never going to get it or it's value back, then why not make a deal with the couple, remembering that it is now a year older so will have lost some value which would need to be considered, you will also have to insure, MOT and tax it, however, if not and you want your 'full' value back then I would strongly suggest you take action to doing so now and not let it drag out (taking legal advice first of course!).

Too late now, but this is one reason why I would NEVER own a vehicle, no matter what value, without having it insured, whether in a 'secured' compound, on my drive, in a garage ... basically anywhere. Insurance can be a costly thing but as you've found out NOT having it can be a whole lot more expensive - I know others who do as you did but I wouldn't do it so hopefully others will 'learn' from your unfortunate experience and re-think their priorities.

As an aside, there are some people who buy their motorhomes from dealers in Belgium and Germany and happily drive their shiny new toys costings £30,000++++ back to the UK on third party insurance only ... I simply do NOT understand their mentality ... risking losing all that money if there is an accident, whether their fault or not, and especially if they are unable to make a claim against the other party, or no other party was involved ... pure madness.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}