Satellite dome blown off (1 Viewer)

Emmenay

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Dec 11, 2011
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What length of time could I have reasonably expected the dome to have lived on the van roof, professionally fitted of coarse?
Any thoughts...(and yes there is a lot more to this one:cry:)
 
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Stephen & Jeannie

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Aug 27, 2008
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9 years !!!!
I would have though indefinitely !! Poor quality glue and workmanship hurtle to mind !:Blush::Blush::Blush:

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Mar 2, 2011
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c.. autocruise starblazer
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I would think it reasonable to expect the dome to remain in situ until such time as vehicle owner decided to remove the thing.
 
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Emmenay

Emmenay

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Interesting question. Was it screwed, glued or both?

It looks to me like there was a smallish amount of glue on each of the four feet (about ten percent of possible gluing surfce) that were also screwed with one screw on each. The one screw I have recovered looks too small for the job!
 
Dec 23, 2007
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How long ago was it done? If within 12 months I would expect the installer/dealer to make recompense.
If any hassle go to Trading Standards.

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laneside

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nowhere near long enough
They are almost impossible to take off let alone fall/blow off, that is assuming they are fitted correctly
 
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Emmenay

Emmenay

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How long ago was it done? If within 12 months I would expect the installer/dealer to make recompense.
If any hassle go to Trading Standards.

The dome was fitted a short while before I bought the van as i have the receipt for work carried out. It was two years ago last week.
At the moment I could be looking at a whole lot of sh!t because of it.:Blush:
 

Jim

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Jul 19, 2007
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Anything could have happened in those two years. They take a bit of a hammering up there and the seals should be checked regularly. It could also have had a clout and been re-fixed before you took ownership; so I don't think you will have a claim against the dealer/fitter.

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ShiftZZ

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Your 1st port of call would be to get someone qualified to confirm what you have said.
Then tackle the person/company who installed the dome, are you sure they were qualified and or approved to do the job?
They may have some form of liability insurance, which they may be able to claim on. If they don’t and they won’t pay, then you could consider Trading Standards, the Small Claims Court, or the Manufacturers of the dish, they may well wish to know the story behind it, if the installed was approved by them.

Otherwise, no doubt a legally qualified individual will possibly make a comment on here.

ShiftZZ (no legal qualification at all)
 
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Emmenay

Emmenay

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Anything could have happened in those two years. They take a bit of a hammering up there and the seals should be checked regularly. It could also have had a clout and been re-fixed before you took ownership; so I don't think you will have a claim against the dealer/fitter.

Couldn't agree more Jim, but, the previous owner had the dish fitted and promply sold the van (who knows why, hard times perhaps) to a dealer who I then bought it from. I am the only person to have put any miles on the van since.
One thing I can be sure of though, it was fixed in place and all screws in place ten days ago as I was on a ladder cleaning the roof line and made a point of looking while I was there.
At the moment I am not looking for anything out of the dealer because the initial outlay wasn't mine.
My problem is what to do in the case of a possible law suit from the poor people on the AP7 near Catral! Sh!t rolls down hill as they say and usually gathers speed! (just like my dome) I know what you are saying though, its my word against anyone elses.
 
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Emmenay

Emmenay

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Your 1st port of call would be to get someone qualified to confirm what you have said.
Then tackle the person/company who installed the dome, are you sure they were qualified and or approved to do the job?
They may have some form of liability insurance, which they may be able to claim on. If they don’t and they won’t pay, then you could consider Trading Standards, the Small Claims Court, or the Manufacturers of the dish, they may well wish to know the story behind it, if the installed was approved by them.

Otherwise, no doubt a legally qualified individual will possibly make a comment on here.

ShiftZZ (no legal qualification at all)

Luckily I have been back this morning and recovered the remains so I will hopefully fine someone in Costa Blanca who knows their beans.
I have yet to contact the people who fitted it until I can be sure there is anything to contact them about.

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Chris

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I have to agree with Jim on this one.

it will be difficult to pin it on anyone.

Is it possible that someone tried to steal it and were disturbed before they could finish the job?
 

eddie

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Oct 4, 2007
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Given that we sell quite a lot of replacement dome "lids" where people have clouted them on trees, signs bird strikes etc it does present a problem.

We have had people booked in for a "satellite check" as the system "doesn't work" only for Dave our workshop manager to come into the office and tell us that the dome has gone! And in one instance vanished along with the cover for the Air conditioning and the Alden Phenix self seeking solar panel system:Eeek: (the insurance claim for that one was circa ÂŁ7,000 ::bigsmile:)

Given how many replacement lids we supply we know that people clout things. It could be that a tiny twig gets pulled under the dome/dish/Air Con/Solar panel when you reverse onto a pitch, only to pull a longer thicker branch (like a cheese wire) under the item as you pull out in a different direction. That may not cause the problem straight away, but allow for a little water ingress, then frost to further expand the problem.

The residue of the adhesive should mirror the footprint of the feet, and should be even and consistent.

It would be very hard to prove that you didn't clout it or have something jammed underneath that has weakened the bond.

We have also had three cases where domes have been stolen, and had it not been for the fact that in these cases the van hadn't been moved (on on a site, one outside a house and one in a compound) the owners could have been left thinking that the dome had "fallen off"

So long as you notified your insurers that you had had the dome installed you cam claim on your insurance policy.

Sorry to hear of you loss though:Sad: If you would like we often take off WiWorld domes to install KVH and the if you want to PM me your details I can put you in touch with anyone selling a 2nd hand unit :Smile:

Regards

Eddie
 
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Emmenay

Emmenay

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Given that we sell quite a lot of replacement dome "lids" where people have clouted them on trees, signs bird strikes etc it does present a problem.

We have had people booked in for a "satellite check" as the system "doesn't work" only for Dave our workshop manager to come into the office and tell us that the dome has gone! And in one instance vanished along with the cover for the Air conditioning and the Alden Phenix self seeking solar panel system:Eeek: (the insurance claim for that one was circa ÂŁ7,000 ::bigsmile:)

Given how many replacement lids we supply we know that people clout things. It could be that a tiny twig gets pulled under the dome/dish/Air Con/Solar panel when you reverse onto a pitch, only to pull a longer thicker branch (like a cheese wire) under the item as you pull out in a different direction. That may not cause the problem straight away, but allow for a little water ingress, then frost to further expand the problem.

The residue of the adhesive should mirror the footprint of the feet, and should be even and consistent.

It would be very hard to prove that you didn't clout it or have something jammed underneath that has weakened the bond.

We have also had three cases where domes have been stolen, and had it not been for the fact that in these cases the van hadn't been moved (on on a site, one outside a house and one in a compound) the owners could have been left thinking that the dome had "fallen off"

So long as you notified your insurers that you had had the dome installed you cam claim on your insurance policy.

Sorry to hear of you loss though:Sad: If you would like we often take off WiWorld domes to install KVH and the if you want to PM me your details I can put you in touch with anyone selling a 2nd hand unit :Smile:

Regards

Eddie

Eddie thank you for your post it does make sense, however, I have just been to take pictures of the roof where the the dome was because I find it a little strange that there is not one scrap, not one morsal of silicone or whatever on the feet of the dome.
What I found on the roof was quite a shock though, two of the feet have been just about positioned on a joint in the roof, therefore not sitting flat. The silcone under these two feet has not even ben flattened, there has never been any contact at these points. The other two have contacted but I would not have been happy with the amount used, as you say, water ingress and freezing are not good, and there was plenty of room for water with the sheer lack of glue!
Thanks for the offer but I am not sure what I want to do yet. To be honest I think I am just in shock and looking for answers. The outcome wasn't the best but could have been far far worse.
Eddie, would you be able to have a look at the photo I have just taken to see what I am saying?
 

eddie

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Guys.

But what if it was installed bady?

They walk away ?

Nope not suggesting that. But: If it has been OK for two years, what happened recently? Also, the OP is a third party, so where does the contract lie? Is it under warranty with the supplying dealer still?

Often dealers will exclude any accessories that were "retro" fitted as they have no idea of the provenance. OK so they could check it, but the OP did that a few days ago when he washed the roof. So should they take accessories off, bin them and then try sell the purchaser a replacement? That would also elicit cries of foul and poor practice!

To sue you would have to prove poor workmanship which would be near impossible, as you would have to be able to prove that you, the dealer or the original owner never clumped it on anything, and even if you could who would you sue?

I take your point but some windmills you just can't tilt at!

Eddie
 
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Emmenay

Emmenay

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Guys.

But what if it was installed bady?

They walk away ?

That just about sums it for me, being a Health and Safety man I tend to look at the evidence and follow up accordingly.

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Sallytrafic

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Those that know me know I am an engineer and a perfectionist in many ways. When I took delivery of my Chausson about three years ago I bought a mounting kit to swap my 130W solar panel over and the adhesive/sealant supplied was a german one, from Korapur Marine range. I marked and roughened up the roof skin and the base of the 4 mounts and fixed the mounts just with adhesive. I used adhesive and a small screw to fix the panel to the mount, because it had a smaller footprint. When parked up at home I can easily catch hold of the panel and rock the van, a check I often did. Last year I heard an odd vibrating sound which I put down to all sorts of reasons before finding that one mount had come unstuck and that I could lift one of the others without too much force.

I took the mounts off and found that the adhesive had not taken to the skin completely on any mount and had also allowed water in to further weaken the bond. Part of the problem I think is that the skin of my Chausson is a polystyrene like plastic not GRP. Having said that it was still a difficult job to get all the mounts and adhesive off the skin and it stuck like the proverbial to the mounts.

I still believe in using adhesives, rather than small fixings in expanded polystyrene infills, so have cleaned everything up and re-fixed it, this time with Sikaflex 512. Its so easy for me to do a pull off check so every time I come home its one thing I always do.


I hope this is of help to anyone considering using adhesive/sealant alone I didn't write it up for this thread but am preparing a blog about work on my Motorhome and the paragraphs were to hand.

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ShiftZZ

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Ok let’s see how this pans out?

1. A Funster goes into a dealer/installer and purchases a dome sat. The installer installs the product incorrectly and ignores the manufacturer’s instructions and guidelines etc. The sat work ok at the dealership/installer and off the Funster goes. 18 months later the Funster is driving along the motorway and the dome decides that the pressure of air hitting it at 56mph is too much and departs from the van and hurtles towards the car behind causing an almighty pileup, the Funster is then charged with whatever and he is able to forensically have the van examined and the investigation proves that the fitting instructions were not adhered to and therefore he was negligent.

2. If the Funster sells the van at 17 months, complete with receipts and instructions etc to another Motorhomer and the same scenario occurs the negligence of the installer/dealer is no less, or am I missing a point of law?

All I am suggesting is that there is a possibility that the installer was negligent in his actions, and if proven could the new owner be able to claim against him?

The same negligence exists?


Is there an ""implied warranty of fitness of a product"
 
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eddie

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Prove that the funster didn't clout the dome, making the installation unstable going down the lane that morning leaving the campsite!

That fundamentally is the problem here

Eddie
 

hilldweller

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It was two years ago last week.
At the moment I could be looking at a whole lot of sh!t because of it.:Blush:

So could the installer if still in business.

You can't fail in court from what you describe.

If installer is at all reputable you'll get a new unit FOC without hassle.


PS....

After reading later posts I'm not as sure but it's not a massive claim and I still think the small claims would tend to favour the small guy who provides good evidence.

But what is my opinion against Chris's ?

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Chris

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My take on it is:

1. You are not the original contracting party so no breach of contract claim and no Sale of Goods Act claim.

2. For a negligence claim you would have to prove

(a) the installer owed you and subsequent owners a duty of care (tough one) and
(b) It worked itself free over a 2 year period due to defective workmanship and without a helping hand from the elements, a bridge, a theif, a bird or a branch.

I honestly wouldnt fancy it.
 

hilldweller

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My take on it is:

1. You are not the original contracting party so no breach of contract claim and no Sale of Goods Act claim.

2. For a negligence claim you would have to prove

(a) the installer owed you and subsequent owners a duty of care (tough one) and
(b) It worked itself free over a 2 year period due to defective workmanship and without a helping hand from the elements, a bridge, a theif, a bird or a branch.

I honestly wouldnt fancy it.

Is that called justice ?

Think on the bright side, OP calls installer, installed is distraught and promises a new one tomorrow.
 

Chris

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Is that called justice ?

Think on the bright side, OP calls installer, installed is distraught and promises a new one tomorrow.

Not saying don't try it Brian, just dont litigate if the say no.

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Feb 22, 2008
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You mentioned silicone, if silicone were used especially with small screws it was an accident waiting to happen :Eeek:
When fixing solar panels or anything else on the roof I always use adequate length screws and where possible at least the front ones through into a roof frame member in addition to a proprietary sealant/adhesive but NOT silicone.
Good luck on this one :thumb:
 
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Emmenay

Emmenay

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You mentioned silicone, if silicone were used especially with small screws it was an accident waiting to happen :Eeek:
When fixing solar panels or anything else on the roof I always use adequate length screws and where possible at least the front ones through into a roof frame member in addition to a proprietary sealant/adhesive but NOT silicone.
Good luck on this one :thumb:

Sorry I'm only being generic with the term 'silicone'. I shall now use the term 'glue' :thumb:
 
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Emmenay

Emmenay

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Can I just be clear, I'm not looking for retribution, as I said, the initial outlay was not mine. BUT, if I am held to account by the Spanish authorities because of an insecure load or similar, I will have to follow it up as a matter of principal. I know in my heart of hearts that it could/should have been installed better and will be having this conversation with the installer.
Yes there is an element of duty of care just as a car manufacturer recalls a car regardless of owners if there is a safety problem. An item should be fitted securely for all owners not just the current one.
:thumb:

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