"A" Framer fined in Germany! (1 Viewer)

JockandRita

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I'm not getting into the arguments "for or against" "A" frames, (we have no desire for one), however, I thought that some of you may be interested to learn of a brush with the law, experienced by others on A.N.Other forum, so it's only for information purposes really.

The couple are known to Rita and I, and we have been in their company a few times, and know them to be absolutely genuine, so what you are about to read, is not a "Jackanory". :winky:

Just to let some of you know that we were stopped 2 days ago by the police whilst towing our Smart car on an A frame and fined €25. This is our 3rd visit to Germany and the first time we have been stopped. The policeman said they had had new instructions only very recently to stop motorists using A frames.

He wouldn't check my husbands documents because he was fairly sure his licence wasn't the right classification. B.......'s licence covers him for 7.5 ton but in Germany he should have a licence covering him up to 8.5 ton while towing a four wheeled trailer ie: Smart car. If he had checked he would have had to fine him €1000. His English was fairly good so this is as we understood it to be.

The other point he made was the only countries that now allowed towing with an A frame were UK. Belgium & Holland. We haven't been stopped in France yet but will try using it there in a week or so.



Please, no disrespectful comments.

Regards to all,

Jock.
 
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Dec 28, 2011
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That's why, if I ever had a toad, it would be as light as possible and on a trailer.
Too many interpretations of the "A" frame law by different countries.
When, and if, it is harmonised, then maybe an "A" frame, but not until.
 

Ber090

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My understanding is that if your licence covers you to drive that combination in the UK then all member states of EU will allow the same. I thing the Police Officer was having a poor day and you got the brunt.Unless you have good language skills and preferably a relative as a senior German Police officer you did the best thing to pay his beer fund fine. If you are a member of C.C or C &CC or AA or RAC it would be worth sending detail to them. I would definately advise the German Embassy in London and ask for written opinion.
CheersBernie

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GJH

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My understanding is that if your licence covers you to drive that combination in the UK then all member states of EU will allow the same. I thing the Police Officer was having a poor day and you got the brunt.Unless you have good language skills and preferably a relative as a senior German Police officer you did the best thing to pay his [HI]beer fund fine[/HI]. If you are a member of C.C or C &CC or AA or RAC it would be worth sending detail to them. I would definately advise the German Embassy in London and ask for written opinion.
CheersBernie

Why assume it is a "beer fund fine" without any evidence to suggest so?

As it happens, on the thread elsewhere which Jock referred to the OP has said (in response to a similar suggestion) "The fine was paid by credit card and the receipt was an official police one."
 

Ber090

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Sorry Graham, sense of humour is always important. I did read the report and the receipt will be useful. Which force were you in?
Cheers
Bernie
 
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JockandRita

JockandRita

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Ber090 said:
and you got the brunt.
Ber090 said:
you did the best thing to pay his beer fund fine.
Ber090 said:
If you are a member of C.C or C &CC or AA or RAC
Please can you re read the original post....................as it's nothing to do with "me"? :Doh:
I was merely trying to inform others. :Doh:

Gordon Bennett!

Jock.

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vwalan

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i say if you have a motor homer and need a car to tow . then by a fifth wheel set up . or a mini artic ,. makes sense to me .
i have aframes towdollies etc but a 5er is the way to travel .
m,bike in the back as well .
 

Ber090

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Gordon, Sorry but I presumed your friends would read this. I was not trying to shoot the messenger!
Cheers
Bernie
 
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JockandRita

JockandRita

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Gordon, Sorry but I presumed your friends would read this. I was not trying to shoot the messenger!
Cheers
Bernie
Hi Bernie,

As per the original post,
JockandRita said:
experienced by others on A.N.Other forum
They are very unlikely to read, or post on this forum. :winky:

BTW, although I may often refer to "Gordon" (as in Bennett), unfortunately, I am not he, as he is famous and extremely well known, whereas I am definitely not. :roflmto:

Cheers for now,

Jock. :Smile:

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Geo

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Hi Bernie,

As per the original post,
They are very unlikely to read, or post on this forum. :winky:

BTW, although I may often refer to "Gordon" (as in Bennett), unfortunately, I am not he, as he is famous and extremely well known, whereas I am definitely not. :roflmto:

Cheers for now,

Jock. :Smile:

You are far to modest my friend ::bigsmile:
Id love to be a fly on the wall If it were you being stopped,
I suspect you and plod would still be there arguing the toss:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 
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JockandRita

JockandRita

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I suspect you and plod would still be there arguing the toss:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
Had it been me Geo, then yes, normally I would do, if he/she were a Brit Plod, but these German ones are often able to assert a bit more of an impression upon me................with their gun clearly displayed in their holster. :whatthe: .................. :roflmto:

Cheers,

Jock. :winky:
 
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vwalan

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never bseen any of the euro cops take their guns out . i challenge them a few times . be it parking instead of camping .etc . they never even tap their holsters .
i got arrested near aguiles in spain . after i showed the letter momo put on here . . i was took to the station saw a higher up cop . he then checked the letters originality . rang the interiour minister . casme back apologised and i was took back to my truck . i still see the guarda that did it . he laughs now.
they really dont threaten you.
you only fear they will.
i met mo end of last year . had a good day in valencia with her . lovely lady . see you again momo .

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I'm not getting into the arguments "for or against" "A" frames, (we have no desire for one), however, I thought that some of you may be interested to learn of a brush with the law, experienced by others on A.N.Other forum, so it's only for information purposes really.

The couple are known to Rita and I, and we have been in their company a few times, and know them to be absolutely genuine, so what you are about to read, is not a "Jackanory". :winky:

Just to let some of you know that we were stopped 2 days ago by the police whilst towing our Smart car on an A frame and fined €25. This is our 3rd visit to Germany and the first time we have been stopped. The policeman said they had had new instructions only very recently to stop motorists using A frames.

He wouldn't check my husbands documents because he was fairly sure his licence wasn't the right classification. B.......'s licence covers him for 7.5 ton but in Germany he should have a licence covering him up to 8.5 ton while towing a four wheeled trailer ie: Smart car. If he had checked he would have had to fine him €1000. His English was fairly good so this is as we understood it to be.

The other point he made was the only countries that now allowed towing with an A frame were UK. Belgium & Holland. We haven't been stopped in France yet but will try using it there in a week or so.



Please, no disrespectful comments.

Regards to all,

Jock.

If you get done like this, how is it they let you go, you must still be breaking the law ,why don't they just phone their mate down the road to get you again and so on
 

GJH

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If you get done like this, how is it they let you go, you must still be breaking the law ,why don't they just phone their mate down the road to get you again and so on

Surely it is up to the person caught isn't it? In this case if they uncoupled the car and drove both vehicles separately they would run no risk. If they continued coupled up they would run a risk. Their choice and if the mate down the road gets them no excuse :Smile:
 

Snowbird

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Just to put my two penny worth in. Unlike the rest of Europe, Germany is a completely different ball game. There are no grey areas in Germany, if its black, its black. If its white, its white. If you are doing something against the law in Germany, you will get nicked, no doubt about it.

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Geo

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Surely it is up to the person caught isn't it? In this case if they uncoupled the car and drove both vehicles separately they would run no risk. If they continued coupled up they would run a risk. Their choice and if the mate down the road gets them no excuse :Smile:

Says a man who's never pulled a muscle never mind a Toad:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 
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If you get done like this, how is it they let you go, you must still be breaking the law ,why don't they just phone their mate down the road to get you again and so on

If you are stopped and fined for commiting an offence and then allowed to continue your journey, the officer who stopped you would be in the wrong for allowing you to continue committing the offence. If you get pulled and have a bald tyre you won't be allowed to continue with that tyre still fitted. The likely scenario would be to uncouple the toad and continue as two seperate vehicles. It should not be acceptable to say that only one of us drives, assuming there were two in the MH, and one vehicle should be left until it could be collected.
Whether this happens in practice is another matter altogether, all I am saying is that it should happen in reality. :thumb:
 

rainbow chasers

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Interesting point - not just for a-frames, but for those towing on twin ale car trailers!

In thoery, you should be allowed to comply with the licence of the country you come from - that may need some looking at as regards to licencing and 8.5t vehicles.

Of course, the new breed will qualify as they will have up to 10t on theirs.
 

vwalan

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there is no actual weight restriction on a b+e . a vehicle upto 3,500kg gvw can pull any weight trailer so long as the train weight of towing vehicle isnt broken .
i know some that can have 12ton train weight.

i would say most m,homers pulling cars start with a vehicle over 3,500kg gvw . c1+e and most are restricted by the code 107 to 8,250 kg train weight.

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rainbow chasers

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there is no actual weight restriction on a b+e . a vehicle upto 3,500kg gvw can pull any weight trailer so long as the train weight of towing vehicle isnt broken .
i know some that can have 12ton train weight.

i would say most m,homers pulling cars start with a vehicle over 3,500kg gvw . c1+e and most are restricted by the code 107 to 8,250 kg train weight.


I think the OP's report stated that the german police didn't look at his licence due to it being 7.5t - and their requires 8.5t to tow a four wheel trailer. It appears they are not looking at train weight, but the vehicle class weight.

I would say this is something that needs to be clarified as to the german police position on this - with a 1000e fine, best be sure!
 

vwalan

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i think the germans have upto 12ton on there pre 97 licences .
maybe wrong but a few german friends have it when they passed their car test.
the op mentioned b licences .sorry just looked again i miss read the first post . it said b...s
i took it to mean b licence category . sorry.
 
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there is no actual weight restriction on a b+e . a vehicle upto 3,500kg gvw can pull any weight trailer so long as the train weight of towing vehicle isnt broken .
i know some that can have 12ton train weight.

i would say most m,homers pulling cars start with a vehicle over 3,500kg gvw . c1+e and most are restricted by the code 107 to 8,250 kg train weight.

The laws changed Alan as of 19th of Jan, if you passed your test since then the max weight of trailer is now 3,500kg on a b+e licence. this won't effect any of us I doubt, but shows how slowly all the limits are being reduced.

https://www.gov.uk/towing-with-car/driving-licence-rules-and-what-you-can-tow

Ian

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duane0001

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I dont know why towing laws and weights keeps coming up :Angry:
Its up to the driver to check he is legal and not a bunch of keyboard lawyers
Ignorance is no defence of the law
 

TheBig1

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I dont know why towing laws and weights keeps coming up :Angry:
Its up to the driver to check he is legal and not a bunch of keyboard lawyers
Ignorance is no defence of the law

quoting the specific legislation and towing limits is for just this reason, to inform the people that need to know and so remove ignorance from the equation :thumb:
 

vwalan

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hi olley i know that . i assumed the op had a licence pre 97 .i also assumed they were in a large m,home towing a car . bit difficult finding one under 3,500kg that could tow a car as well.
didnt mean to miss lead anyone.

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