TAG Axle MH's (1 Viewer)

[Deckard]

JUst reading through another post about the pro's and cons of coachbuilt vs A-Class - very valuable (and varied!) opinions - useful stuff....

...i want to pick your collective brains on the benefits of TAG axled vans....I did have another post on about this but i put an example add which i think means it was taken down (ooops sorry :Blush: )

I am planning to live 3-4 days a week on a site, so i can work, then either go back to base or head off to the lakes and scotland for longweekends. I plan to spend at least a month in europe each year.

I have weighed up the options, read this site pretty extensively before joining :thumb:

A rear fixed bed is essential, seperate shower preferred, a decent lounge, just a dinette area isnt big enough - having been to a few dealers and checked them out.

I feel like the TAG option gives me more capacity (weight and space), giving I will be living in it a lot, so will need more "stuff" (food, clothes, portable washing machine, etc)

Budget is circa £20k

I like the Hobby 750 and the Hymer 710 (?) - any other suggestions I could look at?
Any known issues? (i know the hobby units had some paint issues)
Any drawbacks to having a 7m+ van? (I know it wont be as nimble!)

I am trying to find out the stuff you only find 2 months after buying and think - dang if i'd only known....!!

Appreciate the feedback :thumb:

 

[maz]

...i want to pick your collective brains on the benefits of TAG axled vans....I did have another post on about this but i put an example add which i think means it was taken down (ooops sorry :Blush: )

No, the thread is still there: Broken Link Removed

I answered a few of your points about Tags. Think maybe you asked too many questions in one post to get the replies you wanted tho'. Funsters tend to have limited attention spans!

 

[Reallyretired]

A tag axle gives you a higher payload by increasing the GVW, but this is deducted from the weight you can tow as the train weight doesn't change. This only matters if you are thinking of towing a toad or trailer of course.

Many sites especially in France do not allow tag axle trailer caravans, and I have been told (but not seen it myself) that some extend this to tag axle motorhomes.

Front wheel drive motorhomes with tag axles are even worse on mud than single axle ones.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[haganap]

I think the Hobby is a good idea, but I think you should be thinking about a garage ie fixed bed over garage as IMO the hobbies storage is not as good as it could be. however, I know someone who fulltimes in a hobby and isn't complaining.

Also, dont get wrapped up in the tag axle thing, Merc's can have similar payloads but they are not all tag axle. If your going to be spending so much time in it, I would think that a good lounging area should be considered and not just a dinette area as this can appear quite cramped.

Have you considered a Rapido? Pilote? Autotrail chieftan, Kontiki 669?

There are many other's to consider. :thumb:

just remember, everything is about comprimise.

 

[maz]

Many sites especially in France do not allow tag axle trailer caravans, and I have been told (but not seen it myself) that some extend this to tag axle motorhomes.

And if it's a tag axle Hobby then prepare to be hounded everywhere you go!

Front wheel drive motorhomes with tag axles are even worse on mud than single axle ones.

And yet who was it that drove their FWD tag off the field unaided at last year's Peterborough mud-fest, when the vast majority had to be towed off by a tractor?

 

[Deckard]

And if it's a tag axle Hobby then prepare to be hounded everywhere you go!


is this a private joke

Why would i be hounded??? ...i know i am a noob!

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[haganap]

And if it's a tag axle Hobby then prepare to be hounded everywhere you go!


is this a private joke

Why would i be hounded??? ...i know i am a noob!

Don't worry, It's not because we've read your posts

its that some people think owning a hobby tag axle means you fit the Gypsy criteria and sites refuse you entry. Which happened once to some people in Scotland on one site out of the tens of 1000s that exist and tehn some people use it as a fact to beat anyone thinking of buying a hobby which is ridiculous.

 

[Deckard]

Also, dont get wrapped up in the tag axle thing, M[HI]erc's can have similar payloads but they are not all tag axle[/HI]. If your going to be spending so much time in it, I would think that a good lounging area should be considered and not just a dinette area as this can appear quite cramped.

Have you considered [HI]a Rapido? Pilote? Autotrail chieftan, Kontiki 669? [/HI]

.[/QUOTE]

Hmm guess i havent been checking on the cabs too much - i'll be looking again...

I'd decided on the TAG axle as they all offer better space inside...eg. a decent lounge + dinette area.

As for the other makes you list, some of the "Big" vans get pricey real fast....and the ones i have been to look at my price point have looked "rough" and in need of more work than i want to take on.....Pilote have some nice looking ones, just not found any around my price range in the right layout.

There are lots of Kontikis for sale - wondering why - they have issues? I found a few things in forums but nothing serious...??

Also (yeah i know - more questions) I was looking for "low line"/coach in the (misguided) belief that the highline design would use more fuel....??

 

[old-mo]

We imported, A new, (with the help of a friend), a Tag axle Hobby 760 FMS.... did more miles in that towing a car on a trailer than any M/H or RV we have had since...

Build quality is fantastic, Road holding is superb, no sway in the wind... Short`ish overhang..

All in all I love em... :thumb:

Only down side,,,, Hobby hold there price reasonably well... :thumb:

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[maz]

I think the Hobby is a good idea, but I think you should be thinking about a garage ie fixed bed over garage as IMO the hobbies storage is not as good as it could be. however, I know someone who fulltimes in a hobby and isn't complaining.

Depends on what you want to carry with you. If it's big and bulky then probably you do need a garage van. My previous van had a high bed over a garage. I found I just used to pile stuff into it (some of which I didn't really need - clutter expands to fill the available space, sort of thing) but it wasn't accessible from inside the van so I was in and out like a fiddler's elbow.

Now my Hobby (fixed French bed) has a reasonable amount of under-bed storage (which is also accessible from inside the van) and it also has an excellent number of overhead lockers. Add to these a full-height wardrobe plus another full-height cupboard all kitted out with shelves and I'd say the storage was pretty damn good!

 

[maz]

There are lots of Kontikis for sale - wondering why - they have issues? I found a few things in forums but nothing serious...??

Probably 'cos they are British (Swift) and so are in the UK in large numbers to start with, like AutoTrails. No doubt they are fine if you only want to use them for the touring season. However if you want to live in one all year round in the UK you need to be looking at fully winterised vans, which tend to be German.

Also (yeah i know - more questions) I was looking for "low line"/coach in the (misguided) belief that the highline design would use more fuel....??

Not misguided at all, as the more aerodynamic (low profile) the beastie the lower its fuel consumption (all other things being equal). Some coachbuilts are about as aerodynamic as a house brick on wheels.

 

[Gromett]

I loved my Tag Eura Mobil. Just over 1,000 KG payload. Double floor so loads of storage. I did miss the garage a bit at first.

But the build quality was second to none. Very impress.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Forestboy]

We've had a tag axle Hymer for nearly two and half years now done 20000 miles all over Europe winter and summer including skiing at 10000ft and minus 25c temps. Double floor with underfloor heating, big lounge, massive bathroom and shower, fixed rear bed, loads of storage and over 1 tonne payload a huge garage which carries our 650 Kawasaki plus all the other stuff. We lived in it for 6 months when we sold our house and regularly spend 3 months away travelling. At 25ft its short enough to go anywhere and has a very short overhang so is very manouverable. As for being turned away from sites another urban myth I'm afraid we've stayed on hundreds of sites and never been refused nor do we have a condensation problem and as I said we use it all year round we just use a set of external screens in winter.
We love ours and we downsized from a huge American RV and have no regrets its so much better built and can be used in any weather.
If we were going to change it would only ever be a German A class, I'm afraid nothing else comes close for all year round use.
Some great vans out there at around 8/10 years old and far better built and value than a 4/5 year old one. Good luck with your search:thumb:

 

[Deckard]

Thanks for all the feedback - i feel a little more reassured I am going along the right path and getting my head "into" this MH thing :thumb:

I doubt my budget is going to stretch to anything in single figure age, £20k isnt a lot in this game - that i have figured!

In looking at an older van, other than the obvious mechanical - service history etc, what should i look for? I plan to look in every locker, opening and drawer.......just not sure what I am looking for in there!

I assume damp is easy enough to spot?

My biggest worry is the er...amateur DIY enthusiast....what should i look out for?

 

[Hobby]

Viva The Tag Axle!

Needless to say, I have a Tag Axle Hobby 750 FML.... with 6 extremely good disk brakes to stop me in emergency. (Used once only thank goodness).
It has the AlKo Air suspension and is far superior to the Merc Spring Suspension system designed for light trucks.
We have had ours for about 8 years now since new and would be hard pressed to get a better replacement - believe me wwe have looked!
It is a very roomy van with 2 wardrobes big fridge-freezer etc and have carried 10 people for some distance too. :thumb:

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[jezport]

Front wheel drive motorhomes with tag axles are even worse on mud than single axle ones.

Sorry but you are wrong FWD Tag axles are better on wet and mud than 2 axle vans. I have had both and found the tag moves where my 2 axle van would stick.

I have also got a friend who travels in France in a tag and has never had a site refuse hmm entry.

 

[pappajohn]

with reference to your other thread.....

I see a lot of people replacing timing belts with very low mileages - i had a diesel van that did 90K before it needed such things??

just one reason for this......age !!!

the belt will deteriorate due to age even though the mileage may be extremely low.

the average belt change is 4 to 5 years or around 80000 miles...whichever comes first.

unless there is documented, date and mileage, proof its been changed its always advisable to have it changed for piece of mind if nothing else.

inadvisable to ignore this time/mileage interval as a routine belt change may cost around £300......but a cylinder head rebuild and possibly a couple of new pistons when, not if but when, it breaks may set you back around £1300.

 

[Forestboy]

with reference to your other thread.....

I see a lot of people replacing timing belts with very low mileages - i had a diesel van that did 90K before it needed such things??

just one reason for this......age !!!

the belt will deteriorate due to age even though the mileage may be extremely low.

the average belt change is 4 to 5 years or around 80000 miles...whichever comes first.

unless there is documented, date and mileage, proof its been changed its always advisable to have it changed for piece of mind if nothing else.

inadvisable to ignore this time/mileage interval as a routine belt change may cost around £300......but a cylinder head rebuild and possibly a couple of new pistons when, not if but when, it breaks may set you back around £1300.

Absolutely very good advice:thumb::thumb:

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Deckard]

with reference to your other thread.....

I see a lot of people replacing timing belts with very low mileages - i had a diesel van that did 90K before it needed such things??

just one reason for this......age !!!

the belt will deteriorate due to age even though the mileage may be extremely low.

the average belt change is 4 to 5 years or around 80000 miles...whichever comes first.

unless there is documented, date and mileage, proof its been changed its always advisable to have it changed for piece of mind if nothing else.

inadvisable to ignore this time/mileage interval as a routine belt change may cost around £300......but a cylinder head rebuild and possibly a couple of new pistons when, not if but when, it breaks may set you back around £1300.

thanks for that - obvious now you point it out

 

[JockandRita]

Hi Deckard,

Like Rory & Jan (Forestboy), Rita and I love our 14 year old tandem axle Hymer. It's a fixed rear bed model with a half garage underneath. In the last 8 x years of ownership, we haven't seen another layout that we would like to swap it for...................even if we could afford to.
With a budget of £20K and German quality build, you'll be looking at something around 18 to 20 years old, but hopefully pre-loved.
The tandem/tag axle thing is not a problem, as tyre scrub when turning is minimal, and they will more than likely age, before they wear out. We too have never been turned away because of the axle configuration, and have managed to exit from soft ground, where single axle FWD MHs have got stuck.

With regards to extra toll fees on the French Peage, due to dimensions and axle configuration, we just use the auto toll booths, use the intercom facility, and politely insist that we are a "camping car". However, we prefer to avoid the Peage if time constraints allow.

Good luck with your search,

Jock & Rita.

 

[cmcardle75]

I feel like the TAG option gives me more capacity (weight and space), giving I will be living in it a lot, so will need more "stuff" (food, clothes, portable washing machine, etc)

Remember that some tolls are based on axles (like Italy, I think). If you're going places regularly with such tolls, you might be better off with a dually rather than a tag.

Also, a dually will typically be rear wheel drive, giving you 4x6, rather than 2x6, which gives you literally twice the traction in the mud over a FWD tag and is even a considerable improvement over a 4 wheel van (from about 40% traction to about 70%). Most vehicles have higher loading per wheel to the rear.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Deckard]

Remember that some tolls are based on axles (like Italy, I think). If you're going places regularly with such tolls, you might be better off with a dually rather than a tag.

Also, a dually will typically be rear wheel drive, giving you 4x6, rather than 2x6, which gives you literally twice the traction in the mud over a FWD tag and is even a considerable improvement over a 4 wheel van (from about 40% traction to about 70%). Most vehicles have higher loading per wheel to the rear.

forgive me....but whats a dually?

ok i figure its two driven rear axles....but i have never seen any advertised? (or maybe didnt know what i was looking at!

 

[JockandRita]

forgive me....but whats a dually?

ok i figure its two driven rear axles....but i have never seen any advertised? (or maybe didnt know what i was looking at!

Dual rear wheels on the same axle, as opposed to twin axles. Also if dual wheeled on the rear axle, you'll know immediately, that the MH will weigh in excess of 3.5 tonnes, before even looking at the VIN or converter's plate. Some Fords, Mercedes, and Ivecos, initially spring to mind.

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[rainbow chasers]

Twin wheel, single ale. An Americanism that has taken off over here due to the 5th wheel/american truck influences. Greater weight capabilites, far more robust and better towing weights.

Watch the VERY early tags on the french vehicles, as they were not actually ales, but indespension units which were awful. Later models (04 on) had proper ales. The early ones gave a fairly rigid ride, and were a pain for MOT's - even with a whole new brake system, they only skimmed an MOT.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[cbrookson]

So those motorhomes on a Mercedes 410D base have twin driven rear wheels like our 1992 Hymer. Large payload of 4.6 ton.

But it does mean that the van has a large overhang at the back. Bit like the owner

Cheers

 

[G8WVW]

You are right to be thinking of payload. I keep a 7m long Merc 316 Sprinter based single-axle coachbuilt in Lakes. Very few problems of a 7m van here so long as you're sensible; keep out of the busy town/village parking areas and be prepared to walk/cycle from outside.

My van has is plated at 3,500kg with ~600kg payload which I thought ample for me especially as van can be re-plated at 3,800Kg without modification so don't feel guilty about overloading it a bit (yes, I know it's illegal but not unsafe) ... but wish I'd have bought the 4,600Kg gross '416' chassis as I'm old enough to have the driving license entitlement but young enough not to worry about the extra medicals, I'd happy live with the speed restrictions for peace of mind with the extra payload.

Don't know enough about TAG-axles to answer your other query about three axles ... certainly a 3,500kg chassis on big van you intend to fill with kit for longer stays is not enough!

Cheers.

 

[duane0001]

What is all this talk of Tag axles
To my knowlage only one eurobox ever had a tax axle, A very large Hymer a class
A tag axle is an axle behind a driven wheel
You are talking of twin axle rears and maybe also Large Transit and Merc based Motorhomes with 4 wheels on one axle
Tag axles can also be lifted when not needed

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[JockandRita]

What is all this talk of Tag axles
To my knowlage only one eurobox ever had a tax axle, A very large Hymer a class
A tag axle is an axle behind a driven wheel
You are talking of twin axle rears and maybe also Large Transit and Merc based Motorhomes with 4 wheels on one axle
Tag axles can also be lifted when not needed

Hence my reference earlier.

Rita and I love our 14 year old tandem axle Hymer.

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[Deckard]

What is all this talk of Tag axles
To my knowlage only one eurobox ever had a tax axle, A very large Hymer a class
A tag axle is an axle behind a driven wheel
You are talking of twin axle rears and maybe also Large Transit and Merc based Motorhomes with 4 wheels on one axle
Tag axles can also be lifted when not needed

Maybe i used the wrong terminology? I am a bit new to this - just parroting whats in the ads n specs - but i am referring to vans with two axles at the back rather than those with two 4 wheels on one axle....

There are a few around, Hymer, Euromobil, Hobby to name a few i can remember - they seem quite rare in comparison, hence my enquiry as to owning them, driving them and "real life" usage.

The twin rear axle units have, or appear to have, more room, better layouts (for me) e.g fixed rear bed, dinette AND lounge - full timing, so i want more space - then we have the weight issue. These are plated higher 4.5-5k kgs ( I am 47 btw so my license is fine)

I dont have any real life experience to draw on, so I have spent my time reading blogs, and this forum (a lot!)

If TAG isnt the right term its because its being misused in adds and other descriptions that i have picked up on - or maybe its an accepted faux pas as "you all know what it means" kinda thing?

 

[cbrookson]

What is all this talk of Tag axles
To my knowlage only one eurobox ever had a tax axle, A very large Hymer a class
A tag axle is an axle behind a driven wheel
You are talking of twin axle rears and maybe also Large Transit and Merc based Motorhomes with 4 wheels on one axle
Tag axles can also be lifted when not needed

Quite a few motorhomes have tag axles as well as Hymers -
Burstner 748, Eura Mobil 770, Autotrail Chieftain, Swift Kontiki, Frankia A8400 etc

I think it is a Fiat/AL-KO thing mostly!

Cheers