Leisure Battery advice. (1 Viewer)

[hdvrod]

Realise this has probably been asked before,but tried trawling through the "search" with not a lot of success.I bought a 110 amp leisure battery about 12 months ago,and it has apparently died on me,have been periodically charging it when not in use,but will only hold the charge now for about 2 days.As i recollect it was around £80,dont know if that is too cheap? so some advice as to my next purchase would be appreciated,what is the ideal amperage and what sort of price should I be looking to pay,Thank you.

 

[rainbow chasers]

Did you buy off the shelf - may have had an effect due to age.

Most leisure batteries (that we sell anyway) are good for 400 cycles. A cycle is drain, then recharge. This can be affected if left on chrage for long periods - or for fulltimers on hook-up - get a maintainer to discharge excess.

Most batteries we supply will start at 100-140 pounds for 110ah, and work very well. Had one on the motorhome for 5 years with no issues, got a dual purpose on the caravan for 2 years no issues (the caravan is a killer for power!) So they last ok with good management.

What brand of leisure is it and did it have a warranty or not.

 

[movan]

Sorry, bit confused... do you mean that if we don't drain a battery completely before charging, by use or by charger, that it will be affected, please? If so, how do we discharge a battery completely ? I know you say get a maintainer, but never heard of that before. Sorry, it's probably a daft question.:Sad: Have I misunderstood?

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[Philcott]

I'm confused to! So glad you asked the question Movan

 

[rainbow chasers]

In an ideal world......yes - but that doesn't happen! Very rarely anyone would recharge only when it is flat. It would optimise it (so long as it was done as soon as flat and not left)


What will damage a battery is if it is constantly on charge through hook-up. This will 'cook' it. You need to allow the battery to drain, and then recharge to keep it fit an healthy.

The same ethics as you phone and lap top batteries - keep them plugged in and your battery won't last long - let them cycle and they will last full life expectency.

Sorry Joy - a Battery maintainer will trickle charge and drain you battery for you in effect 'faking' perfect use.

 

[bungy]

What will damage a battery is if it is constantly on charge through hook-up. This will 'cook' it. You need to allow the battery to drain, and then recharge to keep it fit an healthy.

would this not depend on the type of onboard charger you have, mine, for example, is a 4 stage charger, the 4th stage being a standby mode that only 'kicks' in again when the voltage drops below 13v - so it manages the drain and recharge cycle on hook up - so it is left on hook up at home all the time...also keeps the hab battery topped up as well. And in 2 years no problems what so ever

The same ethics as you phone and lap top batteries - keep them plugged in and your battery won't last long - let them cycle and they will last full life expectency.

May well have been in days gone by with Nickel-cadmium (Ni-Cd) and Nickel Metal Hydride (Ni-MH), but modern(at least last 2-3 years) gadgets use Li-Ion batteries and have in built charging controls, they have no memory effect, which means that you do not have to completely discharge them before recharging...snippet...

"Overcharging Li-ion batteries is not a problem and does not affect the battery life span. These batteries can be charged 300 to 500 times, and they have an internal circuit to stop the charging process at full charge.

The control system prevents overcharging, which can cause the lithium ion battery to overheat and potentially burn. This is why the Li-ion batteries are more expensive. The only way for the Li-ion battery to overcharge is if the charging system malfunctions, and then the battery will heat up while in the charger."

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[rainbow chasers]

For best optimisation, the maintainer will allow the battery to drain far below 13v and bring it back up. They will also pulse to allow discharge of depsoits on the cells.

Some chargers built in will do this, some will not. It may be that yours has a maintainer on it. You will only know if any effect has been made by how long you can stay off grid - and you cannot give a set time, unless you know what you are consuming.

As for laptop batteries, newer ones are much better - but like I said, left on charge, it will use up it's 300 cycles or in under a year! Say 18 months at best.

My battery is shot - lasting only 20 mins at best now....but it is 7 years old!

 

[hilldweller]

What will damage a battery is if it is constantly on charge through hook-up. This will 'cook' it. You need to allow the battery to drain, and then recharge to keep it fit an healthy.

Rubbish.

 

[rainbow chasers]

Rubbish.

Just going on what the manufacturers tell me! They make them, so they know best!

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[Terry]

Just going on what the manufacturers tell me! They make them, so they know best!

Rubbish and gullable
terry

 

[bungy]

Charge cycle... there is a whole new topic in itself

As i understand it ...

a leisure battery is designed, on average, for 500 cycles @ 60% depth of discharge i.e one cycle is from 60% to full. So, if you discharge one day to 80% and recharge and then do the same the next day - that is only 1 charge cycle - not 2- and if you are on hook up a lot a charge cycle could take quite a while to be 'consumed' - especially if it is just on hook up at home. A lot depends on the battery, the charger (3 or 4 stage) and usage profile...so no one size fits all i guess.

For us, we move about a lot and our usage is quite low so rarely get below 80% (250ah total) and can easily last 6+ days before were getting down to needing a recharge - even in winter we can go at least 4 days off hook before needing a boost

for comparison....a Li-Ion batteries charge cycle is 0-100%, so in this scenario if the phone is discharged to 80% and then charged to 100% it only counts as .2 of a charge cycle i.e. you could do that 5 times before a full charge cycle is used, so on this basis the average 300 charge cycle of a li-ion means you can plug your phone into the charger 1500 times before you start getting into the realms of diminishing battery power...

 

[bungy]

Just going on what the manufacturers tell me! They make them, so they know best!

im sure they do....the deeper a battery is discharged and then recharged the quicker the charge cycles get used up...meaning more sales

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[hdvrod]

Looks like I've opened a hornets nest But still none the wiser for the record My charger is intelligent charger (unlike me) when on site with hookup I dont usually leave it on,but switch on maybe once a day till I get a good reading.But back to the question what amperage should I get and how much should I pay?

 

[Terry]

110 amp hr around 65 quidish
terry

 

[hdvrod]

Cant see last post as usual so have to type something :Sad:By the way put it charge today and its fully charged again just not holding it?

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[Terry]

Can you see this ?
110 amp hr around 65 quidish
terry

 

[Daveo2006]

Read too much into this malarky,im just gonna keep my cycles on the new rack i just bought where they belong.

 

[bungy]

not a straight forward question to answer on what ampeage

best bet is to work out what your usage is and go from there, if you are a heavy user get as big as you can get, or cut down usage with LED's etc, or put 2 batteries in

Ive got 2 of these

http://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/125-ah-xplorerleisure-battery/

had them for 2 years and still going strong


Have to say though....12months isn't a lot for a new battery, but then it could possibly have been stood on a shelf for a while in a low state of charge before you bought it, so it could already have been 'damaged'

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[hdvrod]

not a straight forward question to answer on what ampeage

best bet is to work out what your usage is and go from there, if you are a heavy user get as big as you can get, or cut down usage with LED's etc, or put 2 batteries in

Ive got 2 of these

http://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/125-ah-xplorerleisure-battery/

had them for 2 years and still going strong


Have to say though....12months isn't a lot for a new battery, but then it could possibly have been stood on a shelf for a while in a low state of charge before you bought it, so it could already have been 'damaged'

Thanks for that,just looked on their website 110 amp 3 year warranty £79 do me

 

[jollyrodger]

Realise this has probably been asked before,but tried trawling through the "search" with not a lot of success.I bought a 110 amp leisure battery about 12 months ago,and it has apparently died on me,have been periodically charging it when not in use,but will only hold the charge now for about 2 days.As i recollect it was around £80,dont know if that is too cheap? so some advice as to my next purchase would be appreciated,what is the ideal amperage and what sort of price should I be looking to pay,Thank you.

This may help
Bought a pair of 115amph from these guys early last year free postage next day delivery 4 years warranty
working fine with my solar system they supply lots to folk on canal boats etc quite helpful on the phone good luck
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[hilldweller]

Just going on what the manufacturers tell me! They make them, so they know best!

Well it's a case of which manufacturer you listen to. The battery maker or the charger maker.

Our original leisure battery was German, no surprise in a Burstner, it was on charger whenever were not using it and of course some of the time we were using it, it lasted 7 years.

The John's Cross replacement has had the same treatment for 2 or so now.

I had a Honda VFR750 bike on charge for 5 years, the battery died when the Honda regulator failed and cooked it, one of the few problems with that bike.

I have two burglar alarms, both on 24/7, I've lost track of the age of those.

I had this same conversation at a dealer's last year. We went to have the Truma tested, I don't know anything about those. First thing he said was "I'll check the battery, they don't like a bad battery", so I offered him my meter, battery Ok, then he said "people leave them on charge all the time and it ruins the battery". I said just the same to him in no uncertain terms, that a modern charger is safe.

But he did come back with a good real world reply, "If you'd seen the number of batteries we replace, especially in Swifts, because the chargers are always failing, then you'd tell people not to leave them on".

So basically he was saying that in the real world chargers kill batteries. Can't argue with that. You probably have the same experience.

I don't know where that leave "sound advice", it all hinges on a good modern charger. If in doubt make sure you do have a good modern charger.

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[hilldweller]

I dont usually leave it on,but switch on maybe once a day till I get a good reading

That would be wrong with my charger. It says it gives a boost/refresh every 5 times it's turned on, so keep switching this one on and off could harm the battery.

One BIG problem in MHs is a few Mickey Mouse LEDs showing the state of charger, crude and near useless. You need to test with a decent voltmeter, which is under a tenner now. If the battery is sticking at about 13.6V it's a happy thing. On bulk charge it should go up another volt then back off.

I bought a couple of cigarette voltmeters someone suggest on here, £3 each from China. A little bit out but much better then a few LEDs.

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[Philcott]

Discovered that one of my leisure batteries has been damaged. It was being charged by a C-tek charger, which I understood was a good one. Apparently not so! The amount of charge being put out by it was fluctuating wildly - so now have to replace not only a battery but the charger too!

So, which would be the best charger to get - given that I want to be off grid some of the time and leave my van on hook up when at home.

 

[jonandshell]

Discharging lead acid batteries causes loss of plate material on every discharge.

Deep discharging just to charge again will cause more loss of plate material.

Better quality leisure batteries are rated for a higher number of discharges, it is no coincidence that these are heavier due to having thicker plates.

As a rule of thumb, for leisure batteries of a given capacity, the heavier one will last you longer.

Feeling the weight of a leisure battery when comparing with another is a simple way for you to make a better informed buying decision!:thumb:

Of course, all leisure batteries are rubbish anyway and you really need traction batteries!

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[Gunner29]

Van Bitz

Picked my leisure bty up from Van Bitz at Taunton on way home last Oct He advertises on here and gives discount so worth giving him a call Ron

 

[wizzer59]

There ya go HERE money well spent:thumb:

 

[jb0371old]

buy traction batteries - do not buy leuisre batteries

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[bungy]

There ya go HERE money well spent:thumb:

how 'deep' can you discharge these? in %age terms...been thinking about going this route when the current ones go to the great electron in the sky..

but if they dont give me much more oomph for the money then i may stick with normal batts

 

[Jaws]

I would just say that if the battery is a year old, take it back where it came from and get it replaced.. If they refuse jump up and down and start threatening Trading Standards etc etc

As someone who sells batteries, believe me when I say if they value their reputation they will replace it.. Apart from anything else they will simply return the duff one to the supplier for replacement anyway ( unless they are dealing with very iffy suppliers )

As for cycles.. Could write pages and pages on it.. Once wrote a 100 page dissertation ( and it was published, much to my surprise ! )..

But it boils down to usage and the equation to really half rock hard math and half theoretical stuff ( in less posh circles that is called guessing )

Lets just say my van is on hook up all the time I am at home and often when we are away.. They get a bit of a hammering when we wild or do shows ( 5 or 6 days with telly on for several hours a day etc etc ).. Batteries are now 4 years old and ( touch wood ) still just fine

Oh,, just a thought.........................................

If hookup damages a battery, why does a big solar panel array not do the same ?

The days of cooking batteries are fortunately long since past with battery chargers / controllers shutting down to trickle once gassing voltage is reached.

 

[mikethom]

The secret is, pay as much as you can afford for standard lead/acid from a decent manufacturer, the more you pay the heavier the battery.
The heavier the battery the more lead there is in it, the more lead there is the longer the battery will last.
Do not drop the batteries below 50% state of charge (12.2v).
As long as you have a proper 3 stage(maybe 4 stage) battery charger you will be able to keep your batteries for a long time.

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