Parking ticket in York (1 Viewer)

electricscott

Free Member
Nov 23, 2010
203
66
Buckden Marina
Funster No
14,520
MH
A class
Exp
3 year
Here is one for the lawyers. We parked overnight in st George's field that allows overnight parking and received a fine for unsuitable vehicle :cry:. Circumstances leading to this misdemeanour allows me to throw our selves on the mercy of the council. However the penalty notice issued has the wrong registration (it is one digit out) although the photographic evidence shows the correct registration. The question is how do they stand legally since they issued the fine to the wrong vehicle? Also should still throw my self upon their mercy or ignore the ticket?
 
Last edited:

stcyr

Free Member
Apr 11, 2011
1,765
1,160
Normandie
Funster No
16,005
MH
A class
Exp
On & off, since 1966 - fulltime since 2005
Was a list of 'suitable' vehicles displayed???
 

pappajohn

LIFE MEMBER
Aug 26, 2007
43,207
48,821
Dark side of the moon
Funster No
172
Exp
Since 2005
If it's an official York council penalty notice then DONT ignore it.....they WILL chase it up and the penalty increases with time.

if there wasn't a 'suitable vehicle' notice at the entrance (for sure) then take photographic evidence of the entrance and surrounding area and contest the penalty on those grounds
 

Xabia

Free Member
Jan 20, 2011
1,186
821
Rural Nottinghamshire and Spain
Funster No
15,031
MH
A Class
Exp
Since 1996
Don't take this as legal advice but some years agomI received a parking ticket for overstaying the time limit. The warden was correct with the time but the registration number was slightly incorrect, just like yours. Disputed it and the fine was withdrawn - worth a try because the ticket does not refer to YOUR vehicle - does it?::bigsmile:

Mike
 

stcyr

Free Member
Apr 11, 2011
1,765
1,160
Normandie
Funster No
16,005
MH
A class
Exp
On & off, since 1966 - fulltime since 2005
... or ... move to a country where such ridiculous restrictions don't exist. :winky:

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

GJH

LIFE MEMBER
Aug 20, 2007
29,450
38,828
Acklam, Teesside, originally Glossop
Funster No
127
MH
None, now sold
Exp
2006 to 2022
Here is one for the lawyers. We parked overnight in st George's field that allows overnight parking and received a fine for unsuitable vehicle :cry:. Circumstances leading to this misdemeanour allows me to throw our selves on the mercy of the council. However the penalty notice issued has the wrong registration (it is one digit out) although the photographic evidence shows the correct registration. [HI]The question is how do they stand legally since they issued the fine to the wrong vehicle?[/HI] Also should still throw my self upon their mercy or ignore the ticket?
Given that you received the PCN then it would appear that they have issued the fine to the correct vehicle, notwithstanding the typo.

As John said, they WILL chase it up and the penalty increases with time. Given the value of the your time that will waste it will probably be cheaper to pay up.

As a general rule, it is important to remember that "overnight parking" and "overnight habitation/camping" are two entirely different things.
 
Apr 19, 2008
1,938
2,916
Kent coast Hythe
Funster No
2,211
MH
Rapido fiat based
Exp
brought first van 16 yrs ago
Contest the fine, you made all possible checks to ensure it was safe and okay to park, you made every effort to enquire as to the suitability of parking your vehicle otherwise you would have moved off. you had not caused an obstruction or inconvenience other users. contact council and ask procedure to contest by post, write up and send off ASAP
then post on here your good news.

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

suavecarve

LIFE MEMBER
Aug 18, 2009
7,447
38,677
Surrey/Hants
Funster No
8,035
MH
Rollerteam 685
Exp
July 09
If you decide to contest the ticket then teh fine does not increase whilst the investigation goes on. I would be looking at 2 forms of contest, the first being the vehicle named on the ticket is not owned by me and the second being that insufficient signage was in an obvious place to be seen and take photographic evidence. (Someone on here must be from York and can take a photo for you)
The other point I dont quite understand is what was "unsuitable" about your vehicle? what is it the sign that isnt plainly visible say? Does it say no motorhomes? If it doesnt then remember that your VEL says PLG for private light goods (Unless you own a monster)
Personally I think you have every chance of getting off that ticket for the wrong registration number. I might be tempted to just ignore it (I do fully understand the ticketing system) and ask for a court hearing and this should take over 6 months then tell them abot the registration number and it will be beyond the statute of limitations.
 

Chris

LIFE MEMBER
May 5, 2010
21,009
274,620
Funster No
11,412
MH
None
Exp
10 years
May as well contest it.

I always do and have always had the fine reimbursed.

Half the time they can't be ar$ed to argue.

Good luck.
 
OP
OP
E

electricscott

Free Member
Nov 23, 2010
203
66
Buckden Marina
Funster No
14,520
MH
A class
Exp
3 year
Thank you all for your comments, I have thrown myself at the mercy of the council. I will let you know the outcome.

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

Addie

Trader - Motorhome Wifi
Oct 15, 2011
553
834
York
Funster No
18,488
MH
Coachbuilt
Exp
5
I used to overnight all the time in St Georges Field - it's on the opposite side to the river to the Cavarvan Club site and I think they weren't happy about it. It must have found its way onto an Italian POI file as there were always Italian vans there with us.

However, according to the signage (which I must add is very clear and above every ticket machine) motorhomes aren't allowed to even park there during the day (although there is usually at least 2 5.5m PVC's in there most days)

20120806_145448.jpg
 

grumps147

LIFE MEMBER
Jun 6, 2010
1,838
2,442
St.Helens
Funster No
11,938
MH
Between
Exp
MH 12 yrs -Tent/Caravan 49 years
I used to overnight all the time in St Georges Field - it's on the opposite side to the river to the Cavarvan Club site and I think they weren't happy about it. It must have found its way onto an Italian POI file as there were always Italian vans there with us.

However, according to the signage (which I must add is very clear and above every ticket machine) motorhomes aren't allowed to even park there during the day (although there is usually at least 2 5.5m PVC's in there most days)

20120806_145448.jpg

It almost needs a sign making up in several foreign languages and placing above the council one saying welcome to York, unless your in a campervan and day visiting. Go to another town and spend your money there. We do not want you here.

I wonder how long it would be before someone noticed?

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

GJH

LIFE MEMBER
Aug 20, 2007
29,450
38,828
Acklam, Teesside, originally Glossop
Funster No
127
MH
None, now sold
Exp
2006 to 2022
It almost needs a sign making up in several foreign languages and placing above the council one saying welcome to York, unless your in a campervan and day visiting. Go to another town and spend your money there. We do not want you here.

I wonder how long it would be before someone noticed?

Not at all. Like many of our older towns & cities, York can become very congested at any time of day. Indeed, the central "tourist" area is largely traffic free during the day.

York has excellent Park & Ride sites, which welcome motorhomes, with excellent buses serving them which are far cheaper to use than parking in city centre car parks. It makes perfect sense to try to keep larger vehicles out of congested town and city centres like York.
 

grumps147

LIFE MEMBER
Jun 6, 2010
1,838
2,442
St.Helens
Funster No
11,938
MH
Between
Exp
MH 12 yrs -Tent/Caravan 49 years
Not at all. Like many of our older towns & cities, York can become very congested at any time of day. Indeed, the central "tourist" area is largely traffic free during the day.

York has excellent Park & Ride sites, which welcome motorhomes, with excellent buses serving them which are far cheaper to use than parking in city centre car parks. It makes perfect sense to try to keep larger vehicles out of congested town and city centres like York.

I agree with you in principal Graham, and would be 100% with you if my perception was not, largely due to the wording of the sign, that it is only motorhomes they want to keep out.

Why not ban all parking and have everyone park and ride? Even tourist buses could drop off, go and park up outside, and come back later.

I think that in order to stop overnight camping, they have banned all motorhome use. That saves them employing enforcement staff at night, reducing costs, and therefore making having a motorhome the issue in my eyes, not keeping the town clear of all large vehicles which would really aid road safety.
 
Last edited:

GJH

LIFE MEMBER
Aug 20, 2007
29,450
38,828
Acklam, Teesside, originally Glossop
Funster No
127
MH
None, now sold
Exp
2006 to 2022
I agree with you in principal Graham, and would be 100% with you if my perception was not, largely due to the wording of the sign, that it is only motorhomes they want to keep out.

Why not ban all parking and have everyone park and ride? Even tourist buses could drop off, go and park up outside, and come back later.

I think that in order to stop overnight camping, they have banned all motorhome use. That saves them employing enforcement staff at night, reducing costs, and therefore making having a motorhome the issue in my eyes, not keeping the town clear of all large vehicles which would really aid road safety.

St George's Field car park is meant for cars - which are much more manoeuvrable than motorhomes - and coaches which need to park fairly close to the centre because drivers have restrictions on their working hours and (typically) many passengers are less able to walk distances than the rest of them.

What is wrong with stopping overnight camping where it could cause a problem? St George's Field is close to the city centre and, thus, popular with people wanting to park early in the day who might be prevented from doing so by overnighting motorhomes whose owners do not wish to move off so early.

As regards not employing enforcement staff at night, the OP actually describes parking overnight so, obviously, enforcement is in place.

I am all for providing places for motorhomes to park and supporting people parking legally but we have too appreciate that we are a minority who have to fit in with the rest of the population and, as such, have to accept that places will be restricted.

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

slobadoberbob

Free Member
Jun 1, 2009
6,151
1,960
Kent, garden of England
Funster No
6,953
MH
Winnebago 23' something
Exp
25 years & counting
I love advice like this

I might be tempted to just ignore it (I do fully understand the ticketing system) and ask for a court hearing and this should take over 6 months then tell them abot the registration number and it will be beyond the statute of limitations.

Being a lawyer that has earned his crust and still does from time to time on parking issues I would advise you to check your advice you give before you give it first. It can be construed as 'an officious bystander' - legal term...

A) do the council enforce by the criminal court or the civil court. 99% enforce by civil action and then this is treated as a debt and has a 6 year life not 6 months.

B) if it is a criminal enforcement and goes in to the magistrates court police issue a summons and that has a 6 months life.

I have seen council car parking issues in both courts. In the magistrates court I saw a van parked in a car parking space go from a fixed penalty to an arrest warrant ... failed to turn up in court. the fine had reached £750 by the time a bench warrant had been issued (Tonbridge Mags Court)

Unless you are 100% sure it is a private company (car park) then do not ignore it....

Looking at some of the posts that show clearly no over night parking for motor homes I feel you are fighting a lost cause.... The typo is unlikly to save your bacon if they have a photo.

Bob
 
Aug 27, 2009
19,788
23,032
Hertfordshire
Funster No
8,178
MH
Van Conversion
Exp
40 years
Being a lawyer that has earned his crust and still does from time to time on parking issues I would advise you to check your advice you give before you give it first. It can be construed as 'an officious bystander' - legal term...

A) do the council [HI]enforce by the criminal court or the civil court. 99% enforce by civil action and then this is treated as a debt and has a 6 year life[/HI] not 6 months.

B) if it is a criminal enforcement and goes in to the magistrates court police issue a summons and that has a 6 months life.

I have seen council car parking issues in both courts. In the magistrates court I saw a van parked in a car parking space go from a fixed penalty to an arrest warrant ... failed to turn up in court. the fine had reached £750 by the time a bench warrant had been issued (Tonbridge Mags Court)

Unless you are 100% sure it is a private company (car park) then do not ignore it....

Looking at some of the posts that show clearly no over night parking for motor homes I feel you are fighting a lost cause.... The typo is unlikly to save your bacon if they have a photo.

Bob
Hope you don't mind me butting in Bob but could you please explain what this means. Does it say that after 6 years the debt is cleared from the record. Or not.
 

slobadoberbob

Free Member
Jun 1, 2009
6,151
1,960
Kent, garden of England
Funster No
6,953
MH
Winnebago 23' something
Exp
25 years & counting
a civil debt can be claimed anytime within 6 years

Hope you don't mind me butting in Bob but could you please explain what this means. Does it say that after 6 years the debt is cleared from the record. Or not.

There are many time limits to actions.

for example Disabled Discrimination is 6 months and 1 day. (have to file papers with the court)

For personal injury it is 3 years (have to file papers with court)

debt it is 6 years ... but a mortgage is much longer .. if memory serves it is 12 years

Motoring offences by police have to be issued within 6 months.

There are some exceptions to the above... like if a medical condition was known for a longer period then the time starts from when known.


On the debt one.. it is enough for someone to chase the debt with in the time ...

Adverse possession as in taking someone else's land and using it.. fence and gate is 12 years... but there are exceptions to many areas... just a guide.


Bob

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
Jul 28, 2008
810
727
Wiltshire, UK
Funster No
3,483
MH
Ducato Sportivo
Exp
Since 2005! 2000+ nights so far...
Adverse possession as in taking someone else's land and using it.. fence and gate is 12 years... but there are exceptions to many areas... just a guide.
Bob

I believe its 12 years for unregistered land, and 10 for registered land.

I had to wait 12 to nick a plot in west London :thumb::Eeek:
 
OP
OP
E

electricscott

Free Member
Nov 23, 2010
203
66
Buckden Marina
Funster No
14,520
MH
A class
Exp
3 year
I also get the feeling they are anti motorbikes as you are only allowed to park in designated bays shock there does not seem to be any
Bikes cannot park on St George's field for instance
 

ShiftZZ

LIFE MEMBER
Feb 19, 2008
21,379
84,111
Dark Side of the Moon
Funster No
1,546
MH
A class
Exp
Since 2007
I believe its 12 years for unregistered land, and 10 for registered land.

I had to wait 12 to nick a plot in west London :thumb::Eeek:

In England, Wales and Northern Ireland, a lender legally has 12 years to contact you to begin the process of seeking repayment of a shortfall debt; this period is usually 5 years in Scotland.

However, lenders are committed to fair and sympathetic treatment of people who have suffered repossession, and accept that individuals should not face long delays before being contacted to discuss repaying the shortfall. Most lenders will contact you fairly soon after possession to try to agree to a manageable arrangement for repaying all or some of the debt.

Lenders who are members of the Council of Mortgage Lenders voluntarily agreed from 11 February 2000 to begin all recovery action for a shortfall within six years of the sale of a repossessed property. If your property was taken into possession and sold more than six years ago, and you have not been contacted by your lender to recover any outstanding debt, you will not now be asked to pay the shortfall. In Scotland, lenders will begin recovery action within five years.

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

GJH

LIFE MEMBER
Aug 20, 2007
29,450
38,828
Acklam, Teesside, originally Glossop
Funster No
127
MH
None, now sold
Exp
2006 to 2022
[HI]I also get the feeling they are anti motorbikes[/HI] as you are only allowed to park in designated bays shock there does not seem to be any
Bikes cannot park on St George's field for instance

I don't think that's correct - see Link Removed. Free parking isn't really "anti" is it? :Smile:
You can park all day in the designated motorcycle bays on Blossom Street, Cumberland Street, Dennis Street, Piccadilly, Tanner's Moat and York Road.

[HI]You may also park all day for free[/HI] in any residents' parking bays marked out in white paint.

[HI]Free parking[/HI] is also available in any on-street pay and display bay for the maximum time permitted. This will be indicated on the accompanying tariff board or pay and display machines.

When parking on-street please try to take up the minimum amount of room by parking at 90 degrees to the kerb. Motorcycles and mopeds may not be parked in bicycle racks.

[HI]Free [/HI]designated parking bays are available for mopeds and 2-wheeled motorcycles in the following car parks (Union Terrace car park also provides designated all day parking for mopeds and motorcycles on a pay and display basis, as there is a special vehicle lock system in place).

Please note that you are not permitted to park your moped or motorcycle in any of the bicycle racks.
 

Chris

LIFE MEMBER
May 5, 2010
21,009
274,620
Funster No
11,412
MH
None
Exp
10 years
Buttone - in general terms if someone doesn't pursue you for a debt for 6 years from the date it fell due then it b,ecomes statute barred as stated above. There are exceptions including mortgages, other legal charges and leases. This is because they are deeds not normal contracts.

Likewise if someone secures a court judgement against someone else but takes no steps to enforce it in 6 years , the right to pursue it is lost.

Not a lot of people know that:winky:
 

ShiftZZ

LIFE MEMBER
Feb 19, 2008
21,379
84,111
Dark Side of the Moon
Funster No
1,546
MH
A class
Exp
Since 2007
Buttone - in general terms if someone doesn't pursue you for a debt for 6 years from the date it fell due then it b,ecomes statute barred as stated above. There are exceptions including mortgages, other legal charges and leases. This is because they are deeds not normal contracts.

Likewise if someone secures a court judgement against someone else but takes no steps to enforce it in 6 years , the right to pursue it is lost.

Not a lot of people know that:winky:

Chris, how does that apply to a charging order, that's an enforcement?

I know in Scotland you can attempt to enforce all at the same time, in the old days we used to enforce a partial warrent say for £50 to test the water...

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
OP
OP
E

electricscott

Free Member
Nov 23, 2010
203
66
Buckden Marina
Funster No
14,520
MH
A class
Exp
3 year
Interesting

hi all i appealed the parking fine on the following facts:
1. web page for St Georges parking does not mention any restrictions
2. insufficient signage at the car park as you can pay by phone
as you may expect this failed and i would have paid had i been at home and read the letter.
since i was on holiday i rang them before the 7 days were up as i wasn’t sure they had received my email and even after explaining the circumstances no joy, so i was about to give my credit card details i mentioned that the summons wrong number plate.
This is the interesting bit, he said don’t pay now, email again with the title “further objection` stating that the summons has been issued to the wrong vehicle and on that basis the summons should be cancelled.
today i received a letter and the said summons has been cancelled,:thumb: so ladies and gentlemen if they make a typo of your number plate there is a good chance you will get away with it.:Smile:
 

GJH

LIFE MEMBER
Aug 20, 2007
29,450
38,828
Acklam, Teesside, originally Glossop
Funster No
127
MH
None, now sold
Exp
2006 to 2022
(snip)
This is the interesting bit, he said don’t pay now, email again with the title “further objection` stating that the summons has been issued to the wrong vehicle and on that basis the summons should be cancelled.
today i received a letter and the said summons has been cancelled,:thumb: so ladies and gentlemen if they make a typo of your number plate there is a good chance you will get away with it.:Smile:

And full marks to the council officer for pointing out the further grounds.
 

ShiftZZ

LIFE MEMBER
Feb 19, 2008
21,379
84,111
Dark Side of the Moon
Funster No
1,546
MH
A class
Exp
Since 2007
Are you saying that the numberplate on the pic is not your car?

I was under the impression they used APNR?

Now I am confused...

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

Join us or log in to post a reply.

To join in you must be a member of MotorhomeFun

Join MotorhomeFun

Join us, it quick and easy!

Log in

Already a member? Log in here.

Latest journal entries

Funsters who are viewing this thread

Back
Top