Basic MH weight: includes driver, water and fuel ? (1 Viewer)

[Ridgeway]

Just doing my maths on the load potential from our existing equipment list from our caravan and wanted to know what is considered within the basic weight of a MH i.e. empty weight. Is the driver included and is some fuel and water included ? I'm sure I've read some where that these items are although cannot be sure.

Thanks

 

[nifty fifty]

Swift allow just 75 kilo for driver plus around 90%of fuel gas and water within the mass in running weight

 

[JeanLuc]

It is supposed to be standardised but manufacturers have been known to calculate it differently. The correct term is Mass in Running Order (MIRO) although some refer to unladen weight (ULW). The latter is technically incorrect as it refers to the weight of the vehicle dry and with nothing in it. I have seen a reference to ULW in a Pilote brochure, but I think they meant MIRO.

MIRO should include: 75kg driver, 90% fuel, gas, fresh water and hookup cable if I remember correctly. Some makes allow for a full fuel tank. In considering a purchase, make sure you know what the specific manufacturer includes. Also note that MIRO isnormally stated for the standard model. If extras have been fitted, these will add to MIRO and reduce payload. Typical extras include: larger engine, auto gearbox, wind out awning, extra leisure battery, towbar, wind down steadies, sometimes cab aircon, sometimes internal concertina Remis blinds. You can see that it's a bit of a minefield. The only way to be certain of MIRO is to load it up with fuel, gas and water, then take it to a weighbridge.

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[Ridgeway]

The only way to be certain of MIRO is to load it up with fuel, gas and water, then take it to a weighbridge.

That sounds like a plan, the nearest WB is only 10mins away so that should be OK. See what you mean about extras, already been trying to add up the bike rack, wind out awning etc....

Will do a 100% fuel and water and 75kgs driver weigh test, only problem for that is that I'll have to go on a diet first.....

 

[Reallyretired]

Most rubbish tips (sorry recycling centres) have a weighbridge and will usually let you use it for free if you don't want a printout. Weigh at least the total weight and if loaded at least one axle as well, you can work out the other by difference and though not exact is pretty good.

 

[Old Soldier]

Just been searching about MIRO or ULW (whatever it's called!). Any new thoughts for this old thread? It suggests " gas" but if you have space for 2 bottles does that include both? What about water in the hot tank of your water heater? Does it allow for grey water? ...( that that has not dribbled out of your partially open valve?! ) Does it include fitted items like cookers, fridges etc? I realise that "add on's" that may not have been part of the original specification won't be included but what about those items that were included? Any he thoughts please?

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[Emmit]

It's been put on here somewhere else very recently.

Construction and Use Regs defines Unladen weight as;
"the weight of a vehicle or trailer inclusive of the body and all parts (the heavier being taken where alternative bodies or parts are used) which are necessary to or ordinarily used with the vehicle or trailer when working on a road, but exclusive of the weight of water, fuel or accumulators used for the purpose of the supply of power for the propulsion of the vehicle or, as the case may be, of any vehicle by which the trailer is drawn, and of loose tools and loose equipment."

In other words, no fuel, no gas, no driver.

 

[Lenny HB]

It is supposed to be standardised but manufacturers have been known to calculate it differently. The correct term is Mass in Running Order (MIRO) although some refer to unladen weight (ULW). The latter is technically incorrect as it refers to the weight of the vehicle dry and with nothing in it. I have seen a reference to ULW in a Pilote brochure, but I think they meant MIRO.

MIRO should include: 75kg driver, 90% fuel, gas, fresh water and hookup cable if I remember correctly. Some makes allow for a full fuel tank. In considering a purchase, make sure you know what the specific manufacturer includes. Also note that MIRO isnormally stated for the standard model. If extras have been fitted, these will add to MIRO and reduce payload. Typical extras include: larger engine, auto gearbox, wind out awning, extra leisure battery, towbar, wind down steadies, sometimes cab aircon, sometimes internal concertina Remis blinds. You can see that it's a bit of a minefield. The only way to be certain of MIRO is to load it up with fuel, gas and water, then take it to a weighbridge.

With German vans they only include 20Lt of water and one 11kg aluminium gas bottle (approx 18kg).

 

[John & Joan]

Some manufacturers are no longer counting water as part of the published unladen weight. They have a choice now of how much they include in the calculation. This way they can publish a higher payload figure in advertising. The need to keep below 3500kg MGVW and have a payload is driven by the B licence now available to newer drivers.

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[andy63]

My take on this is if you want to know your payload then it's the difference between MIRO and the GVW or maximum permissable weight... That's been covered above and manufacturers usually specify what they have included in MIRO..
It's Not the same as the vehicle unladen weight which is a term used in law to determine the vehicles max allowable speed ...and as has been covered many times is not a weight that is easily obtained...
Unladen weight. The unladen weight of any vehicle is the weight of thevehicle when it's not carrying any passengers, goods or other items. It includes the body and all parts normally used with the vehicle or trailer when it's used on a road.

But safe to say if your mass in running order comes in at less than 3050kg then your unladen weight is below that figure and the speed limits that apply to a car apply to the MH. .
Andy

 

[Emmit]

With German vans they only include 20Lt of water and one 11kg aluminium gas bottle (approx 18kg).

With British CARAVANS they only include a 6Kgs bottle and I dont think they include water at all.

 

[Judge Mental]

That sounds like a plan, the nearest WB is only 10mins away so that should be OK. See what you mean about extras, already been trying to add up the bike rack, wind out awning etc....

Will do a 100% fuel and water and 75kgs driver weigh test, only problem for that is that I'll have to go on a diet first.....

You should get a weighbridge ticket from dealer before you buy it. If he plays funny go elsewhere. Buying an overweight unpracticale motorhome common

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[Lenny HB]

Also need to take in account of the axle loadings, we can not make use of our full payload as the front of our van is light and rear axle has a limit of 2000kg. We uprated to 3850kg of the 350kg increase in reality we only gained an increase of 150kg as we were on the limit on the rear axle but the front is 200kg under.

Now on our second van and now would not consider any van with a payload of less than 750kg just not practical at any less and we travel fairly light.

 

[JeanLuc]

With German vans they only include 20Lt of water and one 11kg aluminium gas bottle (approx 18kg).

On mine (2003 Star-Line) according to the Hymer spec. at the time, MIRO included gas (90%), diesel (90%), 75kg driver, EHU cable, and 70 litres of fresh water. But there was a proviso regarding fresh water that the full 120 litres could be included if the MAM allowed it.

 

[Judge Mental]

Also need to take in account of the axle loadings, we can not make use of our full payload as the front of our van is light and rear axle has a limit of 2000kg. We uprated to 3850kg of the 350kg increase in reality we only gained an increase of 150kg as we were on the limit on the rear axle but the front is 200kg under.

Now on our second van and now would not consider any van with a payload of less than 750kg just not practical at any less and we travel fairly light.

That's a bit optimistic if lisence limited to 3500 Lenny. A 636 metre panel van never mind a coach built are heavier then some fully winterized double floor bigger compact A class.....

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[Lenny HB]

On mine (2003 Star-Line) according to the Hymer spec. at the time, MIRO included gas (90%), diesel (90%), 75kg driver, EHU cable, and 70 litres of fresh water. But there was a proviso regarding fresh water that the full 120 litres could be included if the MAM allowed it.

All Hymer's nowdays quote a travel allowance of 20 Lt which they use for MIRO, if you look at the spec on a Hymer the water capacity is quoted like this, 120/20 Lt. It has been like this since at least 2008 also never seen a EHU cable included in the figures can't see why they would as they don't supply one.

 

[JeanLuc]

Ah well, there are some benefits in having an older one then

 

[busby]

Simple,,load your van with everything you are taking with you,,everything,,go to weigh bridge with van with fuel water gas etc etc including the passengers that will be travelling and weigh it. First the whole van and then each axle. Then compare the weight on your ticket with gross weight and axle weights on plate on van. If all your weigh bridge weights are less than weights on the plate you should be legal. If not you need to throw some equipment out or all go on a diet,,,BUSBY

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[Lenny HB]

That's a bit optimistic if lisence limited to 3500 Lenny. A 636 metre panel van never mind a coach built are heavier then some fully winterized double floor compact A class.....

Only speaking from experience, my van had a MIRO of 580 kg I gave up trying to run it at 3500kg we don't even have an awning and that saves 45kg so we upgraded to 3850kg we are still on the limit on the rear axle.
It is possible to run an Exsis at 3500kg but not for us, we like to travel with a full water tank plus 2 x 20Lt of water in the garage, want to be self sufficient for at least 4 days and have our morning shower, we also carry a spare loo cassette that's a lot of sh*t to carry around.

 

[Judge Mental]

Only speaking from experience, my van had a MIRO of 580 kg I gave up trying to run at 3500kg we don't even have an awning and that saves 45kg so we upgraded to 3850kg we still on the limit on the rear axle. It is possible to run an Exsis at 3500kg but not for us, we like to travel with a full water tank plus 2 x 20Lt of water in the garage, want to be self sufficient for at least 4 days we also carry a spare loo cassette that's a lot of sh*t to carry around.

Some of us restricted to 3500 so not an option Lenny, We have managed as a family of four for over 20 years

in a lightweight Euramobil etc..the reason you need bigger payload is you carry a lot of water ( full tanks +) as you mainly wild camp.we travel with 20 litres and fill when we arrive....

 

[Old Soldier]

Simple,,load your van with everything you are taking with you,,everything,,go to weigh bridge with van with fuel water gas etc etc including the passengers that will be travelling and weigh it. First the whole van and then each axle. Then compare the weight on your ticket with gross weight and axle weights on plate on van. If all your weigh bridge weights are less than weights on the plate you should be legal. If not you need to throw some equipment out or all go on a diet,,,BUSBY

That's what I have been doing for years Lenny, but since I started creating my "packing list" I'm trying to be a bit technical and load up according to the item weights. Thanks to all who are responding.

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[Lenny HB]

With British CARAVANS they only include a 6Kgs bottle and I dont think they include water at all.

Bit difficult to include water without a water tank, our German caravan had one.

 

[Lenny HB]

Some of us restricted to 3500 so not an option Lenny, We have managed as a family of four for over 20 years

in a lightweight Euramobil etc..the reason you need bigger payload is you carry a lot of water ( full tanks +) as you mainly wild camp.

Only a 120kg, keep looking at vans with 150/160 Lt water tanks I think on a Chic you can have a secondary tank taking it up to 250 Lt Oooo gets me all excited.

 

[Emmit]

Bit difficult to include water without a water tank, our German caravan had one.

There's a few now from the UK that have one.

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[GWAYGWAY]

In a couple of weeks I hope to have a new Hymer ML-1 680 Which is Supposedly a 3500 van, but it is coming at 3860 or 4020kg, I will not have worry about the weight for at least 2 1/2 years until my 70th birhtday when I will be able to cut back to 3500 albeit with careful pruning and culling of contents, a trailer will then carry the load that is heavier. I seems stupid that the rules demand a cut back of the van weight bu not the maximum AUW If I become dangerous at that age then why the same AUW??? Just bloody bureaucrats having their little power play with the minions. I hope to have the van as soon as possible as Gertie has gone to a new family and I keep longing for the empty space to be filled again.

 

[SMB]

Swift allow just 75 kilo for driver plus around 90%of fuel gas and water within the mass in running weight

I only have 25kg to go then I will be your average Swift driver