"A" Frames again... Dont shoot the messenger... (1 Viewer)

old-mo

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There is an 80 year old guy here at "Marjal"... who was stopped twice on his trip down through Spain...

He and his wife speak good Spanish... When pulled regarding towing their car (Berlingo) on an "A" frame they stood their ground and said they are "LEGAL"....

And got his license out and pointed to the section on the back alongside C1E... which is a picture of a "Lorry & Trailer"... and said he was classed as a Lorry...

Anyway to cut a long story short, showing his license and that section he was waved on his way... much to the disgruntled Police..

Without a fine or anything..

Which if you look at your license and the C1E entitlement I had no reason to not believe him..

He said over the last few years and all the time he has been coming to Spain for the winter.. this is not the first time he has been pulled and used this arguement...

C1E = You are permitted to pull a (Toad) on an "A" frame as it is classed as a braked trailer.. and shows on your license as such and is legal in any country... :RollEyes:

As said dont shoot the messenger.. :cry:
 

slobadoberbob

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Now if Buttons had posted this Mo!!!!!!!!!!

There is an 80 year old guy here at "Marjal"... who was stopped twice on his trip down through Spain...

He and his wife speak good Spanish... When pulled regarding towing their car (Berlingo) on an "A" frame they stood their ground and said they are "LEGAL"....

And got his license out and pointed to the section on the back alongside C1E... which is a picture of a "Lorry & Trailer"... and said he was classed as a Lorry...

Anyway to cut a long story short, showing his license and that section he was waved on his way... much to the disgruntled Police..

Without a fine or anything..

Which if you look at your license and the C1E entitlement I had no reason to not believe him..

He said over the last few years and all the time he has been coming to Spain for the winter.. this is not the first time he has been pulled and used this arguement...

C1E = You are permitted to pull a (Toad) on an "A" frame as it is classed as a braked trailer.. and shows on your license as such and is legal in any country... :RollEyes:

As said dont shoot the messenger.. :cry:

I would have thought of this as a Buttons wind up.. but from you? not sure:Sad:

But what has the licence got to do with a toad? the Spanish law does not mention the licence at all in respect of toads.. you are (or he is) trying to compare apples with plums.

Bob:Eeek:
 

Terry

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I would have thought of this as a Buttons wind up.. but from you? not sure:Sad:

But what has the licence got to do with a toad? the Spanish law does not mention the licence at all in respect of toads.. you are (or he is) trying to compare apples with plums.

Bob:Eeek:

Spanish cops will be as ignorant of our/euro laws as us ::bigsmile: showing a pretty pic that says you can drive with trailer may just help = no fine get on your way ::bigsmile:
terry

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Forestboy

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AAAGGGHHH not A frames again:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
Will this debate ever die???
If you tow, its a trailer when it suits you or a toad when it suits you:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:.

I towed a jeep on a Blue Ox A frame with electronic brake system over all 49 states of America over a 3 year period and its a fantastic system and I can see nothing wrong with it but it needs clearing up once and for all.
It certainly is not a trailer and cannot be realistically reversed any distance although a few yards in a straight line is achievable.
If so many peple are confident its legal why does'nt somebody set the precedent and go to court to fight it out. Don't expect a rush of volunteers and especially not from the manufacturers of A frames. They'll just keep taking the money as long as they can get away with it and supply you with a dodgy letter in numerous languages which is'nt worth the paper its written on.

Let battle commence :thumb: I'm off.
 

slobadoberbob

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well said Si

AAAGGGHHH not A frames again:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
Will this debate ever die???
If you tow, its a trailer when it suits you or a toad when it suits you:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:.

I towed a jeep on a Blue Ox A frame with electronic brake system over all 49 states of America over a 3 year period and its a fantastic system and I can see nothing wrong with it but it needs clearing up once and for all.
It certainly is not a trailer and cannot be realistically reversed any distance although a few yards in a straight line is achievable.
If so many peple are confident its legal why does'nt somebody set the precedent and go to court to fight it out. Don't expect a rush of volunteers and especially not from the manufacturers of A frames. They'll just keep taking the money as long as they can get away with it and supply you with a dodgy letter in numerous languages which is'nt worth the paper its written on.

Let battle commence :thumb: I'm off.


I agree, a week does not go by before we are back on the subject.. hence I did question the post because Mo is well known here and on RVOC as a person that likes the jokes, and I may be doing him down.. sorry if he thinks that in advance, but my mind did go to windup as soon as I read it or that he was :reel:

So if I am wrong Mo... but as said oh not again


Bob:Blush:
 

ShiftZZ

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What has this got to do with UK law, it as far as I understand has NO legal status in Spain, so therefore has No relevance.

You may well be able to ride naked through the street of Belgrade on a 7000cc scooter, waving a Nazi flag with two sticks of celery of your bottom, what is legal there/Spain whatever has very little to do with what you can legally do in the UK on a UK issues drivers licence. Look at the HGV issue....

I suspect the Spanish police were just not in the mood to have an indepth argument about the interpretation of the Law in Spain, I suspect it was nearer their lunch and they couldnt be bothered.

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eddie

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What has this got to do with UK law, it as far as I understand has NO legal status in Spain, so therefore has No relevance.

You may well be able to ride naked through the street of Belgrade on a 7000cc scooter, waving a Nazi flag with two sticks of celery of your bottom, what is legal there/Spain whatever has very little to do with what you can legally do in the UK on a UK issues drivers licence. Look at the HGV issue....

I suspect the Spanish police were just not in the mood to have an indepth argument about the interpretation of the Law in Spain, I suspect it was nearer their lunch and they couldnt be bothered.

My 76 year old Mother in law gets away with blue murder! I suspect that the Spanish police just couldn't be arsed to argue with a pair of oldies!

Eddie
 

Jim

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I take issue with the reversing, if that is the only claim to their illegality then no wonder the debate goes on an on. :Doh:

I have seen A framed cars reversed for many, many yards, who's counting those yards:Doh: and who says it should be more than one or even ten? The vast majority of drivers in Europe couldn't reverser a regular trailer back 10 straight meters. :ROFLMAO:

Yes A frames can be reversed. There are thousands of Aframe rigs in Spain, some get a fine, but car hire is expensive::bigsmile: If they start confiscating toads it might be a different matter, but the odd fine now and again still makes it a cheap car.
 

haganap

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What has this got to do with UK law, it as far as I understand has NO legal status in Spain, so therefore has No relevance.

You may well be able to ride naked through the street of Belgrade on a 7000cc scooter, waving a Nazi flag with two sticks of celery of your bottom, what is legal there/Spain whatever has very little to do with what you can legally do in the UK on a UK issues drivers licence. Look at the HGV issue....

I suspect the Spanish police were just not in the mood to have an indepth argument about the interpretation of the Law in Spain, I suspect it was nearer their lunch and they couldnt be bothered.

Firstly Mo, thank you for sharing this but, Please can I pull the trigger :ROFLMAO:


Shiftzz, You can do that, Nikki and I did so last year but it has to be an 8000cc scooter not a 7000 that you quoted. If you really are going to quote the law's please make sure you get it correct. Some poor funster may attempt that this summer and be pulled for using a 7000cc and not the proven law abiding 8000cc and could potentially have his or her holiday ruined.
yes, I do read the caravan club magazine.

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Terry

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What has this got to do with UK law, it as far as I understand has NO legal status in Spain, so therefore has No relevance.

You may well be able to ride naked through the street of Belgrade on a 7000cc scooter, waving a Nazi flag with two sticks of celery of your bottom, what is legal there/Spain whatever has very little to do with what you can legally do in the UK on a UK issues drivers licence. Look at the HGV issue....

I suspect the Spanish police were just not in the mood to have an indepth argument about the interpretation of the Law in Spain, I suspect it was nearer their lunch and they couldnt be bothered.


I suspect you answered what happened :winky:::bigsmile: either way = no fine /on your way :winky:
terry
Another answer may be to use your van and not bother with a toad :thumb:IE buy a more suitable van :Eeek:::bigsmile:
 

aba

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this is getting silly now

come on guys
obviously some of you are just going around in circles why??
i don't know.
but it seems to me just recently there have been more a frame posts than ever.

are you all bored and just posting to pass the time of day?

come on get real you all have motorhomes get out and use them instead of sitting in front of that damn computer screen :reel:

and what happened to all the :dm: posts even they were more entertaining.
 
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old-mo

old-mo

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I agree, a week does not go by before we are back on the subject.. hence I did question the post because Mo is well known here and on RVOC as a person that likes the jokes, and I may be doing him down.. sorry if he thinks that in advance, but my mind did go to windup as soon as I read it or that he was :reel:

So if I am wrong Mo... but as said oh not again


Bob:Blush:

I can assure you Bob, it is not a wind up...

And the way he explained it,,, it sounded perfectly feasable...

80 Years old and world wide travelled...

As said being able to speak fluent Spanish obviousley helped..

As he said "Your" driving license is a Euro Drriving License and allows you to drive whatever you are licensed to drive in any European country..

And as he explained by the picture on his license it was a Lorry with a "Braked" Trailer

As I said I thought I was delivering a useful bit of information,.

Obviousley not.... so will keep any snippets of information I have heard/Learnt to myself.. :Cool:

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beachcaster

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You may well be able to ride naked through the street of Belgrade on a 7000cc scooter, waving a Nazi flag with two sticks of celery of your bottom, .

Quite !!!!

I have done just that many times..............and was only pulled over once by the police..they just wanted to know where I had bought the celery !

barry:Smile:
 
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Come on Old Mo, don't start throwing your dolly out of the pram. It's just that there are probably several funsters hanging themselves every time there is another thread about A frames. Your information was new, however any mention of A frames tends to produce the same old replies.
Unfortunately not being 80 or fluent in Spanish I don't think it would work for me.:Sad:
 

slobadoberbob

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come on Mo.. that will never happen

I can assure you Bob, it is not a wind up...

And the way he explained it,,, it sounded perfectly feasable...

80 Years old and world wide travelled...

As said being able to speak fluent Spanish obviousley helped..

As he said "Your" driving license is a Euro Drriving License and allows you to drive whatever you are licensed to drive in any European country..

And as he explained by the picture on his license it was a Lorry with a "Braked" Trailer

As I said I thought I was delivering a useful bit of information,.

Obviousley not.... so will keep any snippets of information I have heard/Learnt to myself.. :Cool:

Come on Mo that will never happen:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO: we like your 'snippets' they make fine bait on the:reel: line:Blush::Blush:

We did not say it was untrue or you had made it up:Sad:.. just wondered if we were being had:Smile: OK.. sorry if I up set you.

Bob:thumb:

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vwalan

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but you could show the translation and the letters about returned fines .all these are obtainable on the caratow web site . there are several languages there .and the main letter from the spanish appeal is in spanish .you do have to stand your ground ,dont back down. i have used the letters momo let us have a few yrs ago about parking not camping . it does work but takes time and a possible visit to a local guardia office ,but you will win if you dont give in.
part of the confusion is in spain they cant have the set ups we can . vehicles over 3,500kg etc . some of the guardia are not knowledgable they just chance fine and hope you pay up. go to a guardia office and you will get treated properly and they find a translator for you.
 

Pete45

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I can assure you Bob, it is not a wind up...

And the way he explained it,,, it sounded perfectly feasable...

80 Years old and world wide travelled...

As said being able to speak fluent Spanish obviousley helped..

As he said "Your" driving license is a Euro Drriving License and allows you to drive whatever you are licensed to drive in any European country..

And as he explained by the picture on his license it was a Lorry with a "Braked" Trailer

As I said I thought I was delivering a useful bit of information,.

Obviousley not.... so will keep any snippets of information I have heard/Learnt to myself.. :Cool:

I would say Mo,if you hear any information,it is good that you do put it on the forum,as it may help in some way :thumb:
 

Billy23

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. go to a guardia office and you will get treated properly and they find a translator for you.[/QUOTE]

Not in my town.....they speak Spanish.....end of!

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vwalan

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but they will get a tranlator . if you are living there then you have given up the rights to use an aframe .i have been there got the tshirt. or call the british embassy . that gets the spanish going . international incident and all that. they work on fear. the franco days where they were god as gone long ago. i,m fortunate that i know a few guardia and park out side there habitations sometimes . we do discuss things like this . after seeing the statements i carry they told me they would just wave folk on if they had the right copies. althoughwe have different systems for locals the eu overall ruling wins .
 

Geo

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As far as Im aware there is what is called i belive the Geneva agreement in force,whereby all EU member states agrred to except what is legal in one member state shall be legal and exceptable for visiting vehicles in any other
Spain has decided to ignore the Geneva agreement,
How many of the anti A frame debaters Inc Bob have checked if the rest of their towing equipment is legal in the UK never mind abroad
All tow bars need to be EU approved if fitted to 1998 and newer vehicles
Are the American ones EU approved:Eeek::Eeek::Doh:
Are they towing their trailers illegaly in the UK and Abroad :RollEyes::Doh::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
Geo

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Billy23

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My friends who do not live here have been pulled by the police taken to the main office and told that they( the police) do not have anybody that speaks English end of.

I can only assume that the places you guys are talking about, are not in the very Spanish part of Spain that my house is in, I can go weeks without seeing an English car/van/motorhome. And the locals do not speak English. So on this I give ground and say you are correct, now for a beer.
 

jhorsf

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As far as Im aware there is what is called i belive the Geneva agreement in force,whereby all EU member states agrred to except what is legal in one member state shall be legal and exceptable for visiting vehicles in any other
Spain has decided to ignore the Geneva agreement,
How many of the anti A frame debaters Inc Bob have checked if the rest of their towing equipment is legal in the UK never mind abroad
All tow bars need to be EU approved if fitted to 1998 and newer vehicles
Are the American ones EU approved:Eeek::Eeek::Doh:
Are they towing their trailers illegaly in the UK and Abroad :RollEyes::Doh::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
Geo




I thought the EU approved only applied to cars and not commercials?

That is why you can get a one off for your motorhome made by lots of companies
 

slobadoberbob

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yes

As far as Im aware there is what is called i belive the Geneva agreement in force,whereby all EU member states agrred to except what is legal in one member state shall be legal and exceptable for visiting vehicles in any other
Spain has decided to ignore the Geneva agreement,
How many of the anti A frame debaters Inc Bob have checked if the rest of their towing equipment is legal in the UK never mind abroad
All tow bars need to be EU approved if fitted to 1998 and newer vehicles
Are the American ones EU approved:Eeek::Eeek::Doh:
Are they towing their trailers illegaly in the UK and Abroad :RollEyes::Doh::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
Geo

Geo, Yes is the answer.

I go to great lengths to ensure I comply when towing my trailer, lights, and the required signage boards. My Reece tow equipment is type approved as is the RV (on the approved type list)... I meet all UK regulations, unless you are saying Brian James trailers do not meet the requirements .. I bet they would love to hear about that from you if they do not?

If I am not wrong the towing equipment is part of the MOT test these days. never had an issue by anyone when the tests have been carried out.

In my view I think all trailers should have a separate MOT and there own registration numbers.... some real bad trailers on our roads, as anyone going to the local dump on a Sunday will confirm.

Bob

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Geo

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Geo, Yes is the answer.

I go to great lengths to ensure I comply when towing my trailer, lights, and the required signage boards. My Reece tow equipment is type approved as is the RV (on the approved type list)... I meet all UK regulations, unless you are saying Brian James trailers do not meet the requirements .. I bet they would love to hear about that from you if they do not?

If I am not wrong the towing equipment is part of the MOT test these days. never had an issue by anyone when the tests have been carried out.

In my view I think all trailers should have a separate MOT and there own registration numbers.... some real bad trailers on our roads, as anyone going to the local dump on a Sunday will confirm.

Bob
Jorsf jumped in to0 quick on the approved vehicle definition:Angry:
and you mentioned the Mot aspect, wel:thumb:l done
I can confirm and will be hapy to show you why a Reece tow bar don't stand a cat in hell of complying with the MoT regulations and if they cant pass an MoT they cant be type approved :RollEyes:
As for Brian James
Ill let you handle the telephone call, you brought them up not me:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 

jhorsf

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Geo;565887[HI said:
]Jorsf jumped in to0 quick on the approved vehicle definition:Angry:[/HI]
and you mentioned the Mot aspect, wel:thumb:l done
I can confirm and will be hapy to show you why a Reece tow bar don't stand a cat in hell of complying with the MoT regulations and if they cant pass an MoT they cant be type approved :RollEyes:
As for Brian James
Ill let you handle the telephone call, you brought them up not me:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:



I only said I thought this was the case I was asking you if that was so ?
 

slobadoberbob

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so why Geo do they pass them?

Jorsf jumped in to0 quick on the approved vehicle definition:Angry:
and you mentioned the Mot aspect, wel:thumb:l done
I can confirm and will be hapy to show you why a Reece tow bar don't stand a cat in hell of complying with the MoT regulations and if they cant pass an MoT they cant be type approved :RollEyes:
As for Brian James
Ill let you handle the telephone call, you brought them up not me:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

If I recall you have a Reece on your RV? if they do not meet MOT standards how come all the RV's seem to pass the mOT each year?

Or are you saying ALL the mot examiners ignore them:reel: opp5


Bob:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

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Geo

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If I recall you have a Reece on your RV? if they do not meet MOT standards how come all the RV's seem to pass the mOT each year?

Or are you saying ALL the mot examiners ignore them:reel: opp5


Bob:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

Those in the know remove them before the test
My signature is only reqd on tests I carry out
I dont care what the rest of the world is doing, just because the majority do something wrong dont make it right do it
Test criteria is quite specific Ive not seen a Reece yet that will pass without modification
And if you modify it ,that automatically cancels any type approval, check it out dont take may word for it
So chances are, you are towing illegally and can't t put it right without being illegal in another way:Doh:
Cant have it both ways ::bigsmile:
 

jhorsf

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TYPE APPROVAL EC/94/20: The regulations DO NOT APPLY to:-
Commercial Vehicles, Motorhomes, Cars not (e) marked, Special Imports (SVA), Front Towbars, and All Vehicles registered before 1st. August 1998


Towtal web site states
Does EC Type approval apply to motorhomes?
Currently, EC Type approval is not in force on motorhome or RV towbars. However, we work to all EC 94/20 standards and our towbars leave the workshop with a weight stamp
 

johnp10

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What has this got to do with UK law, it as far as I understand has NO legal status in Spain, so therefore has No relevance.

[HI]You may well be able to ride naked through the street of Belgrade on a 7000cc scooter, waving a Nazi flag with two sticks of celery of your bottom,[/HI] what is legal there/Spain whatever has very little to do with what you can legally do in the UK on a UK issues drivers licence. Look at the HGV issue....

I suspect the Spanish police were just not in the mood to have an indepth argument about the interpretation of the Law in Spain, I suspect it was nearer their lunch and they couldnt be bothered.

Strange folk from Anglesey!

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