Parking tickets (PRIVATE CAPARKS) (1 Viewer)

Peter JohnsCross MH

Funster
Deceased RIP
Jan 5, 2008
9,617
6,194
East Sussex
Funster No
1,134
MH
Autotrail
Exp
1995
interesting!


Tickets issued by private companies
Private companies can issue tickets to drivers parked on their property, but the rules are not the same as local authorities.
If you receive a ticket in a private car park, such as a supermarket car park, or private multi-story car park, remember that it is not criminal law, but contract law that applies. The driver enters into a contract with the landowner when they driver into the car park.
This means that it is only the driver that can be subject to a ticket from a private company. If they do not know who the driver was, they cannot claim a penalty. They have no legal right to demand that you identify the driver.
If you are approached by a member of staff inside a private car park there is no obligation for you to assist them in any way
If the company wish to pursue a claim in the small claims court, they have to prove that you were the driver of the car. Any comments that you make may assist them in this aim, so best to say nothing.
If you refuse to pay, the private company has to pursue you through the small claims court. It is up to them to prove a breach of contract so look at the terms carefully. These are usually printed on a sign at the entrance to the car park.
Additionally, you may be able to reduce any fine issued by a private company. Under contract law, they can only claim for any loss they have suffered because of your offence. They may try to claim a penalty of, say, £100, but in law they may only be entitled to any revenue they had lost. So, if you pay £2 to park for one hour, but stay for three hours, they can only claim for two hours of lost revenue, which is £4.
 

pappajohn

LIFE MEMBER
Aug 26, 2007
43,207
48,819
Dark side of the moon
Funster No
172
Exp
Since 2005
the owner of NCP car parks started out with a small plot of land and was related to Dick Turpin...........he is still related to Dick Turpin but owns a lot more land :winky:



you are not issued with a parking ticket...you are issued with an invoice......if only more people would read this and take the advise given, the rogue 'parking wardens' would soon give up.
 

GJH

LIFE MEMBER
Aug 20, 2007
29,450
38,828
Acklam, Teesside, originally Glossop
Funster No
127
MH
None, now sold
Exp
2006 to 2022
All true and there is no excuse for any private landowner trying to make a fortune out of unsuspecting members of the public.

At the same time, though, landowners must have some way of combating abuse by individuals who are just too tight to pay for parking and end up causing problems for the general public as well as landowners.

At the end of the day abuse is wrong on both sides.

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
Dec 6, 2011
11,470
25,062
South Wales
Funster No
19,136
MH
Coach built Adria
Exp
Since 2007
Whats the score then if you are parked outside a recognised bay and get a ticket? :Doh:
 
Jul 28, 2010
1,710
617
The world
Funster No
12,902
MH
Small car
Exp
1
interesting!


Tickets issued by private companies
Private companies can issue tickets to drivers parked on their property, but the rules are not the same as local authorities.
If you receive a ticket in a private car park, such as a supermarket car park, or private multi-story car park, remember that it is not criminal law, but contract law that applies. The driver enters into a contract with the landowner when they driver into the car park.
This means that it is only the driver that can be subject to a ticket from a private company. If they do not know who the driver was, they cannot claim a penalty. They have no legal right to demand that you identify the driver.
If you are approached by a member of staff inside a private car park there is no obligation for you to assist them in any way
If the company wish to pursue a claim in the small claims court, they have to prove that you were the driver of the car. Any comments that you make may assist them in this aim, so best to say nothing.
If you refuse to pay, the private company has to pursue you through the small claims court. It is up to them to prove a breach of contract so look at the terms carefully. These are usually printed on a sign at the entrance to the car park.
Additionally, you may be able to reduce any fine issued by a private company. Under contract law, they can only claim for any loss they have suffered because of your offence. They may try to claim a penalty of, say, £100, but in law they may only be entitled to any revenue they had lost. So, if you pay £2 to park for one hour, but stay for three hours, they can only claim for two hours of lost revenue, which is £4.

thank you for this information it is good to know
:thumb::thumb:

Keep us all informed and thanks again
Ian
 
Jan 11, 2010
2,743
9,476
Chester
Funster No
9,901
MH
Auto-trail
Exp
Well that`s our 13th year & still loving it.
private car park

Our Daughter was issued with such a ticket saying if she paid now it would be £50 it it went past a certain date the fine would be doubled.
I told her ignore it, a few weeks later the next one was more threating again I told her ignore it.
The third came promising all sorts of threats if she didn`t pay.
Again ignored and after that nothing.
It seems they will persue you with wild scary threats hoping that most people will cave in and pay 3 letters appears to be the norm.

Of course the only way they can persue you is in the small claims court which means they have to attend which of course would cost them more than the fine.

So lesson learnt by this, throw those bogus threats in the bin.:thumb:
 
Jun 30, 2010
7,921
27,189
Cornwall
Funster No
12,372
MH
1992 VW Auto sleeper Mono
Exp
Since 2005 this time
Thanks Pete:thumb:

Already knew the basics of this, but thank you for going into more detail:thumb:

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

weekenders

LIFE MEMBER
Apr 30, 2008
2,657
1,957
Leicestershire
Funster No
2,443
MH
A Class
Exp
15 years
So Mr Johncross, shouldwe have ignored the fine from Thistle hotel in Poole, after paying but our time ran over?? fine said if you dont pay it would be double, rang the hotel and they did not deal with it private company
 
Apr 27, 2008
11,794
13,955
Eastbourne East Sussex
Funster No
2,327
MH
Hymer low profile
Exp
Since 1972
When I was full time employed I used to be on the appeals committee for parking fines at the hospital. The penalties were dealt with by a private parking company and their unwritten policy was that if you ignored 3 notices they wrote it off. It is usually too much hassle and expense for them to actually take anyone to court, with no guarantee of winning.
 

s7ev0

Funster
May 31, 2010
462
809
Funster No
11,859
MH
Globecar Summit
Exp
Since 2009
This site has a lot more information on the whole issue of dealing with "tickets" from private parking companies.

And here is a useful page with scanned copies of all the letters you may receive from the various companies as they get increasingly shouty and snarly. :RollEyes:

Steve

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

suavecarve

LIFE MEMBER
Aug 18, 2009
7,447
38,676
Surrey/Hants
Funster No
8,035
MH
Rollerteam 685
Exp
July 09
As someone who has handed out proper tickets and now hands out proper invoices pretty much all the above is correct and sound advice of saying nothing and not replying to their letters. Only the Chief Police Officer of an area has the right to tell the owner to name the driver (or a court i suppose). The only slight thing i would disagree with is the amount they can charge. They have to be able to pay the staff's wages and costs of letters they send out on top of overheads such as hand held machines so it might be £2 for the space but the rest is made up of paperwork amounting to the £50. Still who cares cos you dont have to pay it.
 

s7ev0

Funster
May 31, 2010
462
809
Funster No
11,859
MH
Globecar Summit
Exp
Since 2009
but they all fit in the same waste bin :thumb:

Yep! :ROFLMAO:

Forgot to add that all the recipients of the ignored letters that are scanned and posted on that site have never paid a penny in "fines", or been taken to court.

Steve

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
Feb 4, 2010
2,329
1,590
Mid. Glamorgan, S. Wales
Funster No
10,168
MH
Motorhutch / Toy Camper
Exp
Since 2010
Useful information and good to know...

...but I'm curious. Is everyone here saying it's OK to ignore these because the fines are usually OTT for the misdemeanour committed (staying too long in a supermarket car park, parking where you shouldn't for 20 minutes)?

Is it a case that you would pay if the fine was reasonable and you had committed the offence?

Or is the general opinion that it's OK to ignore these and not pay just because you can and it saves you some money, even though you might be breaking a moral code?
 

motor roamin

Funster
May 23, 2010
1,541
792
Leicester
Funster No
11,727
MH
A Class
Exp
2 mins
I had one of these after parking for longer than 2 hours on a motorway services in my car, I had had a meeting with 7 other people and had an exspensive meal that was more suited to a cobblers shop than a restaurant, any way I get a demand rather threatening for £60.00 or they will take me to court, I did reply it read, let me know when and where I will see you there, never heard any more.

All the best Rick.
 
Apr 27, 2008
11,794
13,955
Eastbourne East Sussex
Funster No
2,327
MH
Hymer low profile
Exp
Since 1972
If the fee was reasonable, and I had committed the offence then I would pay it. However these fees are rarely reasonable in the sense that they should represent the liquidated damages suffered as a result of your action.

For example if you overstayed in a car park charging £1 an hour then the loss suffered is that someone else couldn't park there and so they have lost a parking fee so perhaps £1-2 for the lost income + £2.50 for the DVLA fee + a bit for the letter would be reasonable say £10 or less.

Of course you could argue that if the car park was not full and/or if parking was free then they will not have lost any income so have no claim for damages.

However the charges are never reasonable in practice so its a bit of an academic question.

In my experience the landowners do not pay the parking company who rely solely on the money they can extort to pay their staff etc plus a cut to the landowner, so they could not operate with a reasonable charge.

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

GJH

LIFE MEMBER
Aug 20, 2007
29,450
38,828
Acklam, Teesside, originally Glossop
Funster No
127
MH
None, now sold
Exp
2006 to 2022
Useful information and good to know...

...but I'm curious. Is everyone here saying it's OK to ignore these because the fines are usually OTT for the misdemeanour committed (staying too long in a supermarket car park, parking where you shouldn't for 20 minutes)?

Is it a case that you would pay if the fine was reasonable and you had committed the offence?

Or is the general opinion that it's OK to ignore these and not pay just because you can and it saves you some money, even though you might be breaking a moral code?

There's the rub isn't it.

The reason why restrictions are in place is because without them spaces would not be available for the people they are intended for - basically customers of the business (all of us really).

I wonder how many people who do park for longer than they should also rant and rave when they can't find somewhere to park, possibly because someone else has overstayed :Smile:
 

algill

Free Member
Dec 12, 2007
625
213
Derbyshire
Funster No
1,014
MH
Fifth wheel
Exp
Since 2007
I've just had letter no 2 from a company called G24 Ltd. It wasn't me driving either! :Eeek:

Gill went for a meal with work colleagues and parked in the nearby Wickes and other outlets car park without even realising she was doing anything wrong as it was night time and all the stores were closed. Some of her colleagues parked there too.

Aparantly parking was free for 2 hours but she stayed 2 hrs 25 mins. In the first letter they stated the charge was £70 reduced to £50 if paid in 14 days.

We didn't pay it so the second letter states that it's a "contractual parking charge notice" and goes to some lengths to explain how they have obtained my details from DVLA. It also states that I will receive a final notice in 28 days. As a matter of interest the letter is signed with an elaborate squiggle but no name.

Now I can understand there has to be parking restrictions there in the day time in order to allow space for store customers and to stop people parking and walking into town. However, once the stores are closed I can't see why it shouldn't it be used for customers of local restaurants etc.

I'm now waiting for letter no 3. From what I've read that may be the last as they give up after that. :thumb:

Al
 

GJH

LIFE MEMBER
Aug 20, 2007
29,450
38,828
Acklam, Teesside, originally Glossop
Funster No
127
MH
None, now sold
Exp
2006 to 2022
However, once the stores are closed I can't see why it shouldn't it be used for customers of local restaurants etc.

I fully understand your point but the fact is that the land is private property and the owner - just like any of us with a garden/drive - can place whatever restrictions he wants on it.

If there is a lack of parking for local restaurants etc perhaps the solution would be for the restaurant owners to do a deal with the car park owners to allow evening parking for longer periods. No doubt the owners would welcome the extra income :Smile:

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

slobadoberbob

Free Member
Jun 1, 2009
6,151
1,960
Kent, garden of England
Funster No
6,953
MH
Winnebago 23' something
Exp
25 years & counting
Ignore the ticket or notice they send you

Whats the score then if you are parked outside a recognised bay and get a ticket? :Doh:

Remember I am a retired lawyer (criminal) I am not creating any legal relationship with anyone with this post. (small print pout of the way).

Firstly a notice must be clearly displayed .. i.e at the point of entry to a car park if there are charges levied to park. (Shoe Lane Parking is still good law).... If you accept the terms and park and do not pay then there could be a contract in force. But subject to the Unfair Contract Regs (an EEC rule by the way)... But presume that there are notices and you park and they put a penalty notice on your car. They can try and enforce it if there was a notice and rate on display and say a ticket machine.

For the question of parking out side the bay... recently dealt with a case relating to terminal 3 at Heathrow.. chap pays his parking, but to save damage to his Merc parks over two bays.. they chased him and chased him for about 6 months then gave up... When they sent a solicitors letter he then answered a very short line.. I will defend the action.... end of story.. the £180 penalty they imposed went away.

You are not obliged to give any information to anyone .. right to remain silent.. yes even police. will not go into that one now. They have to have a valid reason to request your name and address age etc., and you need to be cautioned.. the caution does not remove your rights to remain silent.

Anyway back to the car park. They can trace & chase you from your reg number.. DVLA will give it to them for a fee. They can write to you as much as they like. Just ignore the letters.. Only if they have solicitors letter sent saying they are issuing and the amount then a short reply you will defend the matter.. that is all.. I doubt you will hear from them again. If they did go all the way, it is a civil matter ad the court will want to know a lot about where the sign was etc.,

I would add it is right to pay if you park, if it is reasonable... but what is reasonable I may ask?

Bob:Blush:
 
Mar 29, 2010
438
208
Hebden Bridge
Funster No
10,849
MH
Moto Trek Xcite EB
Exp
Since Sept 2011
Reasonableness is very subjective I guess.

I work for the National Trust and at our property we make a charge for using our car park, members park for free. The charge may be considered by some to be excessive, £3.50 for 3 hours at weekends £5 for the day, but there are costs involved in running a site, even what some may regard as just a bit of countryside.

The income from car parking goes some way towards paying for the maintenance of the site but in no way covers it, and that is true for the vast majority of properties outside of Cornwall and the Lakes who make money that goes to subsidise other properties.

Although we post notices on vehicles that do not pay I don't know of any cases where this has been followed up, we just rely on the majority of people being honest and reasonable.

If you consider that NT membership costs less that 20p a day I wonder at those regular visitors who refuse to be members and complain about the cost of parking.

Outside of the NT car park charges are what they are and we can refuse to pay, I tend to try and park in a free spot away from busy places that charge and use public transport if I can that is usually cheaper.:RollEyes:
 

slobadoberbob

Free Member
Jun 1, 2009
6,151
1,960
Kent, garden of England
Funster No
6,953
MH
Winnebago 23' something
Exp
25 years & counting
That is why I say Reasonableness

Reasonableness does not have to be defined in law.. it is a common every day situation we all face. So is it reasonable to buy a meal like Rick and spend a fair bit of money and expect to park for 3 hours rather than the allowed 2 hours?

Is it then reasonable to have to pay £20 say at Fleet services on the M3 to stay over 2 hours.. or pay £22.95 and get a meal (breakfast)... is the meal really £2.95 or is it 'make it look a good deal' is that reasonable?

I use a blue badge in my car and park for as long as I need to... given my disability, but is that reasonable? is it reasonable that able bodied people park in blue badge spaces?

The word reasonable can be turned, ducked and dived... but we all know when it is reasonable to pay a reasonable charge and not be ripped off.

Hence I left my post with reasonableness as i do again.

Bob:Sad:

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

GJH

LIFE MEMBER
Aug 20, 2007
29,450
38,828
Acklam, Teesside, originally Glossop
Funster No
127
MH
None, now sold
Exp
2006 to 2022
But, Bob, (unfair terms excepted) is it not reasonable for the car park owner to expect people who entered into a contract to park to pay the costs which they accepted when they did so? ::bigsmile:
 
Feb 4, 2010
2,329
1,590
Mid. Glamorgan, S. Wales
Funster No
10,168
MH
Motorhutch / Toy Camper
Exp
Since 2010
If the fee was reasonable, and I had committed the offence then I would pay it. However these fees are rarely reasonable in the sense that they should represent the liquidated damages suffered as a result of your action.

Can't argue with that.

One of the reasons for my posting was the fact that this forum seems at times overfull of comments from people bemoaning the state of this nation and the lack of standards in the population today :RollEyes:

It struck me that a visitor to MHFun might compare those posts with the ones in this thread that seem to approve fine-dodging, and I wouldn't want anyone on this forum to unintentionally appear hypocritical :Smile:
 

hilldweller

LIFE MEMBER
Dec 5, 2008
605
36,108
Macclesfield
Funster No
5,089
MH
Zilch Mk1
Exp
From Aug 2007
So, let us add to the traditional no-go areas of gassing, reverse polarity, stealing intellectual property, A_frames, a new catagory, dodging fines.

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

Join us or log in to post a reply.

To join in you must be a member of MotorhomeFun

Join MotorhomeFun

Join us, it quick and easy!

Log in

Already a member? Log in here.

Latest journal entries

Funsters who are viewing this thread

Back
Top