the holy grail--power? (1 Viewer)

chrisgreen

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Right then i fancy a debate,if lots of peeps join in we can have a mass debate:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
power(electric) is what we all strive to get as cheaply as poss,to run our motorhomes when off grid:thumb:
right so? what is the best set up to have in this country(jj) to power our motorhomes?is it
solar=£2.40 a watt for a good panal and charge controler:thumb:relies on the sun.but is silent:thumb:not reliable 24/7 365:Eeek:needs a huge expensive heavy battery bank(4 min) to store power for the days it aint sunny,power use needs to be frugal just in case:Doh:
genny=£0.30p a watt to buy:thumb:relies on fuel(running cost) ,is noisy,heavy, but reliable 24/7 365 does not rely on big banks of heavy batteries:thumb:power use not important:thumb:
12v genny=£0.0000003 a watt:thumb:relies on min of fuel(running cost)noisy but light, runs 1 hour a day,dont need big battery bank:thumb:(2 max)power use is important but not frugal:thumb: had to include this one:ROFLMAO:
wind =no data:ROFLMAO:
i stand in the 12v genny corner:thumb::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
where do you stand?:Smile:
 
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Snowbird

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I stand in the corner of maximising all you can,ie, solar panels,wind generator,battery to battery charger, and if all else fails then go for a drive to where there is sun.
Who the hell would want to sit 24/7/365 in a dark room::bigsmile:
 

JJ

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There is little doubt that you have come up with a brilliant product young Chris :thumb: and I am in the queue when it is put on the market but could I humbly suggest you look to your use of statistics in the marketing techniques...:ROFLMAO:

Not sure where you got your £2.40 per watt from for solar... I am, however, sure you will enlighten me soon...:winky:

First you need a product name... "The Power Puncher"... "The Battery Banker"... "The Amp Hammer"... "Green's Green Gadget Power Giver"...

Got to go... out to lunch today...

JJ :Cool:

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Wildman

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I currently have 2 x 80W panels and 4 x 110 amp/hr batteries.
one panel flat on the roof connected to one pair of batts that are also charged from the engine when driving. The second panel is the only charge for the second pair of batteries that are used for TV, phone/laptop charging. This panel is almost verticle in the front window when parked and catches the low angle sun is the winter/spring/Autumn. Always enough charge from the vertical panel to keep the batteries fully charged by 10am. Most days in the winter the roof mounted panel struggles to keep the bank charged if not driving anywhere so will be adding a second panel making 240W in total both banks an be joined if required by a switch, but never have been. Only seen batteries below 12v on the odd occasion and never had the load cut off by the regulator because of low battery. Now we tour and are only rarely in one place for more than two days, never used a site as a rule and never had a hookup other than shepton to run the tent lights.
We manage and it suits us. Have occasionally thought about a wind genny and will eventually make one, no longer carry genny never used it so sat in the shed.
 
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chrisgreen

chrisgreen

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I currently have 2 x 80W panels and 4 x 110 amp/hr batteries.
one panel flat on the roof connected to one pair of batts that are also charged from the engine when driving. The second panel is the only charge for the second pair of batteries that are used for TV, phone/laptop charging. This panel is almost verticle in the front window when parked and catches the low angle sun is the winter/spring/Autumn. Always enough charge from the vertical panel to keep the batteries fully charged by 10am. Most days in the winter the roof mounted panel struggles to keep the bank charged if not driving anywhere so will be adding a second panel making 240W in total both banks an be joined if required by a switch, but never have been. Only seen batteries below 12v on the odd occasion and never had the load cut off by the regulator because of low battery. Now we tour and are only rarely in one place for more than two days, never used a site as a rule and never had a hookup other than shepton to run the tent lights.
We manage and it suits us. Have occasionally thought about a wind genny and will eventually make one, no longer carry genny never used it so sat in the shed.
sorry roger,just edit my post to include charge controller:thumb:
as you need both and a good 100watt panal and a good charge controller will cost £240:thumb: and my genny priceing was done on a honda not a cheap kipor:ROFLMAO:

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Wildman

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cost per W is not dependant on panel size a decent 20amp regulator is around £40, no good massaging the figues to make your 12v look good Chris I posted what works for me, I don't carry a genny or petrol. AND I included postage in my pricing only one controller needed for 3 panels so add .16666 to the costing and its still dirt cheap. So my total instalation costs are£1.87666666p per Watt. with no ongoing costs of fuel. the panels are lightweight and the three of them weigh less than a genny 12v or otherwise. Require no maintainance other than an occasional wipe over.
a genny is heavy, noisy, smelly anticsocial and would probably invalidate your insurance if you told them you carried petrol in a can in a locker.

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GJH

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Got to go... out to lunch today...

JJ :Cool:

Another Nutter??? Some of us are permanently out to lunch :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

Back on thread. As with so many things it depends on circumstances.

In our van we haven't the space to carry a heavy generator or to carry fuel safely. Our usage between March and September/October is such that we are around the van often enough to orient our free standing 50W panel towards the sun for efficiency. In the other months we happily use EHU. Couple that with conversion to LED lighting and we don't need a big battery bank (1 x 85AH replaced by 1 x 110AH) and we are able to replace the power we consume easily.

I've been impressed with Ray's Forgen VAWT but it's expensive and mounting it on our van might be a problem so I'm watching Dave's experience with the Maplin model with interest as, if successful, we may find it useful during the winter months.
 
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chrisgreen

chrisgreen

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cost per W is not dependant on panel size a decent 20amp regulator is around £40, no good massaging the figues to make your 12v look good Chris I posted what works for me, I don't carry a genny or petrol. AND I included postage in my pricing only one controller needed for 3 panels so add .16666 to the costing and its still dirt cheap. So my total instalation costs are£1.87666666p per Watt. with no ongoing costs of fuel. the panels are lightweight and the three of them weigh less than a genny 12v or otherwise. Require no maintainance other than an occasional wipe over.
a genny is heavy, noisy, smelly anticsocial and would probably invalidate your insurance if you told them you carried petrol in a can in a locker.
invalidate my insurance:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
the most explosive things carryed on a motorhome is the batteries and gas bottles,and four 110 batteries weigh how much??:Doh:my genny weigh's 13.7 kg:thumb:
anti social il grant you:thumb:
 

Snowbird

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Never real gave much thought to the"Probably would invalidate your insurance" regarding the carriage of petrol in your locker. Good point Roger.:Eeek:

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Wildman

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if you are saying stick to one battery and charge it every day then you will soon run out of power and also need to find a petrol station or carry 5 gallons of fuel. The whole point of power is to have it when you need it not used a genny since I fitted the solar panels. don't have to think about it or lift a genny in and out of lockers hoping no one runs off with it. Each to their own but I like an easy life, no lifting no noise, no fumes no daily expence. tour rather than site sit and you won't need to recharge at all. Rising fuel prises do not affect the sun either.
 
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chrisgreen

chrisgreen

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if you are saying stick to one battery and charge it every day then you will soon run out of power and also need to find a petrol station or carry 5 gallons of fuel. The whole point of power is to have it when you need it not used a genny since I fitted the solar panels. don't have to think about it or lift a genny in and out of lockers hoping no one runs off with it. Each to their own but I like an easy life, no lifting no noise, no fumes no daily expence. tour rather than site sit and you won't need to recharge at all. Rising fuel prises do not affect the sun either.
roger this is not an argument,its a debate:thumb:
the weather affects the sun,and as you say you travel around alot,in doing so you are useing your genny up the front,the one thats connected to your engine,and that one will produce alot more power that any solar panal or panal's,as you say each to there own:thumb:

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Wildman

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hey I am not aguing Chris, merely answering the points you raise so debating. One more point to clear up the pair of betteries I use for the TV (7-10 hours a day) are not charged by anything but the solar panel. If my debating bothers you I'll stop. I don't do arguments so you can have the last word no problem mind you if someone else raises a point I may well answer
 

Douglas

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Right then i fancy a debate,if lots of peeps join in we can have a mass debate:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
power(electric) is what we all strive to get as cheaply as poss,to run our motorhomes when off grid:thumb:
right so? what is the best set up to have in this country(jj) to power our motorhomes?is it
solar=£2.40 a watt for a good panal and charge controler:thumb:relies on the sun.but is silent:thumb:not reliable 24/7 365:Eeek:needs a huge expensive heavy battery bank(4 min) to store power for the days it aint sunny,power use needs to be frugal just in case:Doh:
genny=£0.30p a watt to buy:thumb:relies on fuel(running cost) ,is noisy,heavy, but reliable 24/7 365 does not rely on big banks of heavy batteries:thumb:power use not important:thumb:
12v genny=£0.0000003 a watt:thumb:relies on min of fuel(running cost)noisy but light, runs 1 hour a day,dont need big battery bank:thumb:(2 max)power use is important but not frugal:thumb: had to include this one:ROFLMAO:
wind =no data:ROFLMAO:
i stand in the 12v genny corner:thumb::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
where do you stand?:Smile:

Your cost for solar power is miles out, a solar panel can last 20 or 30 years, yes there is some loss about 15% over 10 years but after that its pretty constant. Plus there are no running or maintenance costs

Doug...

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chrisgreen

chrisgreen

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hey I am not aguing Chris, merely answering the points you raise so debating, if that bother you I'll stop. I don't do arguments so you can have the last word no problem mind you if someone else raises a point I may well answer
roger you crack on buddy i like your input:thumb:
getting back to insurance,yes i am insured to carry 5lt of petrol in a sealed plastic can,but i am also insured to carry a motorbike on the back, as my insurance company are fully aware that i do this,as both motorhome and the bike are covered by the same insurance company:thumb:
5lt of petrol, wilding would last me 7/8 days:thumb:
judgeing by my useage at malvern:thumb::bigsmile:rying wifes hair(through a 2000w inverter) and somebody else's that will remain nameless,and also charging an r/v batteries for an hour,my little genny run for about 4 hours in total:thumb:,should have been 2 1/2 but i forgot it was running when eating bacon butties on sunday morning:Blush:
 

Snowbird

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There is another equation to all this.
We wont deny that a good solar,wind and battery system is expensive,including all the other bits that are attached to it ie,controller and heavy duty wire.
But once its fitted that's it,you don't have to maintain it apart from the occasional battery top up. You don't have to buy fuel and oil for it ever. It will save you perhaps in the region of £250 every 2 years on replacing deep discharged batteries (have you checked the price of batteries lately).
A decent sized genny is not a cheap item to buy,but has massive running costs over a 10 year period,fuel,oil,servicing,whereas the alternative power supply has virtually no running costs.
When you come to sell your van the solar system will add value to it,whereas what do you give the purchaser of your genny powered van (a pile of receipts for the fuel its cost in your genny).
 
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chrisgreen

chrisgreen

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Your cost for solar power is miles out, a solar panel can last 20 or 30 years, yes there is some loss about 15% over 10 years but after that its pretty constant. Plus there are no running or maintenance costs

Doug...
but i have put in my first post no running cost?:thumb:
the cost is worked out on buying it:thumb:
as is my genny costing+running cost:thumb:
so how far am i out?????????

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chrisgreen

chrisgreen

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i have read through this thread again and get the impression that people think im anti solar,im not:thumb:
i would put solar on my motorhome in a heart beat,if i could rely on it to give me anough power when i need it,that it will never be able to do and i aint going to carry something around with me that aint working,because it's overcast.
most(not all) people carry both why!??because they carry a genny just incase:ROFLMAO:
and ehu was mentioned?, this thread aint about ehu:Doh:
 

Munchie

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Solar for us (we have a gennybut never used it since we went solar).
You do not need a min 4 batts. We have two 110amp batts and two 80w panels.
Last year we went from third week April till start October on non hook up sites and we are doing the same this year (UK)
We have never ran out of power, we use 12v tele and digibox or sat box, two laptops used every day and all the usual power for a motorhome.
For me avoid inverters like the plague, everything we have is 12v. We do use a 150w inverter for charging our toothbrush (once a week) and my camera battery (also once a week)
We have small DC inverters for the laptops.
I would not use a big one for tv etc as this is a large batt drain hence we set van up to be 12v wherever possible. :thumb:

BTW the only time we get nothing from the solar in daylight is when it is Pi**ing down. Even a heavily overcast day we still get 1.5/2 amps.
 
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chrisgreen

chrisgreen

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Solar for us (we have a gennybut never used it since we went solar).
You do not need a min 4 batts. We have two 110amp batts and two 80w panels.
Last year we went from third week April till start October on non hook up sites and we are doing the same this year (UK)
We have never ran out of power, we use 12v tele and digibox or sat box, two laptops used every day and all the usual power for a motorhome.
For me avoid inverters like the plague, everything we have is 12v. We do use a 150w inverter for charging our toothbrush (once a week) and my camera battery (also once a week)
We have small DC inverters for the laptops.
I would not use a big one for tv etc as this is a large batt drain hence we set van up to be 12v wherever possible. :thumb:

BTW the only time we get nothing from the solar in daylight is when it is Pi**ing down. Even a heavily overcast day we still get 1.5/2 amps.
but ken you travael around alot chargeing as you go,i have only one big inverter just to run wifes hair dryer,once a day when away,every thing else 12v:thumb:

24/365 in this country is the criteria,as set out in my first post:thumb:

seperate issue, how do you wash clothes when full timeing?nothing to do with this thread just intrested:thumb:

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chrisgreen

chrisgreen

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someone on here said solar's are light,just looked, 9kg aint light and thats just a little 100watt one:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
not convinced::bigsmile:
 

Munchie

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but ken you travael around alot chargeing as you go,i have only one big inverter just to run wifes hair dryer,once a day when away,every thing else 12v:thumb:

24/365 in this country is the criteria,as set out in my first post:thumb:

seperate issue, how do you wash clothes when full timeing?nothing to do with this thread just intrested:thumb:

Last year we stayed on site without moving for a minimum of 7 days and on two occasions a fortnight. One of the fortnight ones was at Mytholmeroyd and it honked down for the 2 weeks. It was so bad i was getting concerned and Alan (Laneside offered to lend me his gennie if neccessary (it wasn't).

This year we are doing 3 days a site and moving a maximum of 50 miles each time. So it really is the solars that keep us going. :thumb:

I am afraid your assumption of solar is a mile out. :Smile:
 
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chrisgreen

chrisgreen

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Last year we stayed on site without moving for a minimum of 7 days and on two occasions a fortnight. One of the fortnight ones was at Mytholmeroyd and it honked down for the 2 weeks. It was so bad i was getting concerned and Alan (Laneside offered to lend me his gennie if neccessary (it wasn't).

This year we are doing 3 days a site and moving a maximum of 50 miles each time. So it really is the solars that keep us going. :thumb:

I am afraid your assumption of solar is a mile out
. :Smile:
please explain:thumb:
even i can go for three days without chargeing,and a 20 mile run would charge 2 100ah batteries easerly,so not necessarily relying totaly on solar again useing the generator in the front.
im begining to think im right:thumb:

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Munchie

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please explain:thumb:
even i can go for three days without chargeing,and a 20 mile run would charge 2 100ah batteries easerly,so not necessarily relying totaly on solar again useing the generator in the front.
im begining to think im right:thumb:

I said a FORTNIGHT without moving. A run out of that length would certainly not charge my two 100 amp batts. Not with my usage anyway.
I think I am speaking from Experience whereas you are speaking from flawed assumptions (no offence meant) and you seem to be making assumptions to bolster your case against solar. :ROFLMAO:
 

darklord

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Does anybody run two alternators, one for the engine etc, and one just to for the battery bank.?
Most vehicles have an "air con" option, giving a second belt size and location point for the second alternator. as it would not be charging the engine battery and replacing what the starter has used, it would straight away be recharging the storage batteries. I,m not too sure on costings, but running your engine for one hour a day to recharge, "may" work out as cost effective as anything else, plus, replacing an alternator or belt, "may" be a better option than getting a gennie/solar panel/voltage unit fixed or replaced.
 

Snowbird

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Does anybody run two alternators, one for the engine etc, and one just to for the battery bank.?

Strangly I have heard of this on another forum,have never seen a setup so cant comment. I think this setup is for exceptionally large battery banks.

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We use solar power with 2 trojans and have never had a problem. We even had a charge going in when we had 2 inch of snow on the panel ,over Xmas in Aviemore how i dont know. Ralph has a gadget that he fitted that shows the charge going in to the batteries and what is going out . He still looks at it regulary , even though hes had it ages , and says blah blah amps going in now , and chuckles to himself.
If weve been hammering the electric with all the kids gadgets etc it tells you its dropped. ( so im told :ROFLMAO:)
We sold the big Honda cos we didnt use it and bought a small one . Carried it with us on several trips never to need it. So its now stuck in the shed. If we were going anywhere for longer than a week without any hook up , we would probably take it . Just incase , but in over 2 years we have never needed to use one.
 
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chrisgreen

chrisgreen

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Last year we stayed on site without moving for a minimum of 7 days and on two occasions a fortnight. One of the fortnight ones was at Mytholmeroyd and it honked down for the 2 weeks. It was so bad i was getting concerned and Alan (Laneside offered to lend me his gennie if neccessary (it wasn't).

This year we are doing 3 days a site and moving a maximum of 50 miles each time. So it really is the solars that keep us going. :thumb:

I am afraid your assumption of solar is a mile out. :Smile:
ken is this your post?,does it not clearly state that this year you are doing 3 days on site then moving a maximum of fifty miles,and a twenty mile run WILL charge your batteries,but they should not need chargeing as your solar does the work:ROFLMAO:sorry but its you that is making flawed assumptions about my knowledge and experience,caravans,boats, motorhomes, all suffer with the same problem and solar aint the answer,if it was i would have solar:thumb:
 

Munchie

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ken is this your post?,does it not clearly state that this year you are doing 3 days on site then moving a maximum of fifty miles,and a twenty mile run WILL charge your batteries,but they should not need chargeing as your solar does the work:ROFLMAO:sorry but its you that is making flawed assumptions about my knowledge and experience,caravans,boats, motorhomes, all suffer with the same problem and solar aint the answer,if it was i would have solar:thumb:

You didn't read this did you?

Last year we stayed on site without moving for a minimum of 7 days and on two occasions a fortnight. One of the fortnight ones was at Mytholmeroyd and it honked down for the 2 weeks. It was so bad i was getting concerned and Alan (Laneside offered to lend me his gennie if neccessary (it wasn't).

This year we are doing 3 days a site and moving a maximum of 50 miles each time. So it really is the solars that keep us going. :thumb:

I am afraid your assumption of solar is a mile out. :Smile:


And by you making assumptions I mean your statement "you need a minmum of 4 110 batts" that is just Bo**ox


Also have you tried to run with 2 batts and solar? I have and succeeded. ::bigsmile: as have others.

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