Drunk in charge of a vehicle...? (1 Viewer)

Touchwood

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As far as I am aware, being in possession of the keys is classed in law as being in charge of the vehicle.

So - if I partake of a few glasses of an evening whilst parked up on a site, with no intention of driving anywhere until the next day, am I technically in breach of the law? Have there been any instances of someone being "done" for this offence?

I'm not overly concerned you understand - it would take an unusual set of circumstances and a very keen and officious plod - but just out of interest does anyone have any experience/knowledge of this topic?
 

Chris

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I think you are ok on a site.

May be problems if yiou were wild camping though.
 
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Touchwood

Touchwood

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I can get pretty wild after a few glasses.......:ROFLMAO:

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tonywolst

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There has to be an intent to use them, so if your in a car drunk sat in the drivers seat that's clearly intent, so for example if a HGV driver has 2pints and is over the limit, he could leave his/her keys in the bed in the back or top, also he has the added proof that he doesn't intend driving as his tacho hours may be up,
Also if your on a site your probably hooked up and leveled up so no intention of moving,
If your on private land you can do what you want, Though 12pints and handbrake turns wont go down well:ROFLMAO:

Im sure there's a better/correct legal definition.
 

scotjimland

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If your on private land you can do what you want,

err not quite, only if there is no access or right of access to the general public....

a pub car park may be private land but as it's open to public use you can be charged with being 'drunk in charge'.... as some have found out

so technically you could be done if drunk and parked in a 'public' place.. ie, lay by, car park etc although it would be very pedantic cop to arrest you in your PJs while in bed ..
 
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Touchwood

Touchwood

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<snip> although it would be very pedantic cop to arrest you in your PJs while in bed ..

And of course, as we all know, there are no very pedantic cops out there.....:winky:

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Reaynger

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I think the law states you are illegal if you are drunk and you are driving, attempt to drive or in charge of a motor vehicle on a road to which the public has access.

This can be a private road such as the internal road of a campsite unless there is a barrier across at reception which is shut where it would then be deemed private land.

Obviously if you are drunk on a pitch then you are not on the road.

A problem could arise if you are drunk in a motorhome on a layby in such as an urban or even rural wild camping situation, in such occasions the road extends right up to the fence or wall and includes the grass verge.

Obviously if your other half is insured to drive and has the keys then the law would be very hard to prove guilt.

That is how I see it, any road.:thumb:

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W18BLA

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I asked this question to my mates uncle who works for traffic in the westmidlands and i was told if your MH is parked in a car park or layby and your drunk and even if your staying the night you will get done.. But if your parked up and on chocks and night screens up etc then you wont get touched by the law as this is a sign you are pitched for the night (In theory and thats how they look at it) But he said the only way you will not be arrested is if you are on a private field away from the public or on a paying site. In other words don't park in asda car park and get drunk :winky:

Craig
 

GJH

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I asked this question to my mates uncle who works for traffic in the westmidlands and i was told if your MH is parked in a car park or layby and your drunk and even if your staying the night you will get done.. But if your parked up and on chocks and night screens up etc then you wont get touched by the law as this is a sign you are pitched for the night (In theory and thats how they look at it) But he said the only way you will not be arrested is if you are on a private field away from the public or on a paying site. In other words don't park in asda car park and get drunk :winky:

Craig

Seems a very sensible approach.
 

steveclecy

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In reply to the OP, I have never heard of ANYONE being "done" for being Drunk in Charge whilst sleeping in a MH and wonder if any Funster can provide evidence of such.

This, I am afraid, is one of the Chestnuts that do arise now and then and was fairly well covered in Broken Link Removed

Steve

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darklord

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I think everyone would be wise to only get rat arsed while on a site, it may also be wise to put the ignition key in a safe place...safe so that plod can,t find it and say you intended to drive.
We can all get a little pedantic about drinking and driving, in my offroading dats, people were vehementl;y against it,..but thought nothing of staying up till 2 am when at a "meet" drinking, then driving off at eight or nine am to go offroading.........still under the influence i would guess!

on sites, i would see no problem.....unless plod are called because you are staring through a tuggers window while urinating in his aquarool cos you have had too much falling down water........then they might decide to get a tad nasty.:ROFLMAO:
 

joncris

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There has to be an intent to use them, so if your in a car drunk sat in the drivers seat that's clearly intent, so for example if a HGV driver has 2pints and is over the limit, he could leave his/her keys in the bed in the back or top, also he has the added proof that he doesn't intend driving as his tacho hours may be up,
Also if your on a site your probably hooked up and leveled up so no intention of moving,
If your on private land you can do what you want, Though 12pints and handbrake turns wont go down well:ROFLMAO:

Im sure there's a better/correct legal definition.

Just a point but private land, that the public can access, IS subject to the law in other words if you're driving around the PRIVATE site after a few bevies, handbrake turns or not, you're still breaking the drink drive laws + you'll probably be charged with dangerous driving for the handbrake turns:cry:
 

bernardfeay

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We drink enough beer and wine each night to be concerned with this issue.

We do a lot of wild camping and the tricky bit crops up if you are asked to move on. In 8 years of camping we have only been moved on twice and it was early in the evening on both occasions.

If we were over the limit and asked to move I would always plead guilty to illegal parking or trespass rather than move.

The police also have the difficulty of deciding which one of you is in possession of the keys. After all, when the speed camera catches you then you are forced to say who was driving. If they insist on knowing who is driving the motorhome the answer has to be "neither of us"; and that must be true.

just as an aside, we did once get a speeding ticket and had to say who was driving. We asked for photographic evidence since both of us could have been driving on that particular day. After carefully studying the image we decided it was my wife, the fat bald one and the slim transvestite in the passenger seat was let off.

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johnp10

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Just a point but private land, that the public can access, IS subject to the law in other words if you're driving around the PRIVATE site after a few bevies, handbrake turns or not, you're still breaking the drink drive laws + you'll probably be charged with dangerous driving for the handbrake turns:cry:

All true.
If the public have unrestricted access to land, (motorway services, pub car parks, etc.) Road Traffic Acts, C&U Regs, Drink driving legislation and so on all apply.
Who owns the land is irrelevant.
It's the access that applies .
In these places, if you are over the limit and in charge of a vehicle, you are drunk in charge.
You dont need the keys in your possession to be "in charge".
 

jonandshell

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Wasn't there a test case once where the MHer got off because his gas system was turned on and in use, therefore demonstrating he had no intent to drive the MH?
 

johnp10

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Wasn't there a test case once where the MHer got off because his gas system was turned on and in use, therefore demonstrating he had no intent to drive the MH?

Dunno, but I witnessed a guy parked outside a transport cafe some years ago get nicked.
2am: He was asleep in the back seat of a car when plod woke him, breathalised him and nicked him for DIC.
He hadn't a clue where his keys were and plod couldnt find them.
He obviously had no intention of driving, but that is neither an issue nor a defence.
He was drunk and he was in charge.
Plod was trying to explain to us drivers that he must have driven there drunk, but when it was pointed out that "must have...." isnt evidence, they went quiet.


In all fairness, he was as pissed as a rat, but could have got pissed there.
 

gypsylady

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We have used our M/H for a night out.

Drove to a CIU Club about 15 miles away, got permission from the doorman to park-up in the car park, enjoyed the turn and a couple of drinks (not excessive, but too many to drive) and stayed over til the next day.

Curtains up, dogs on-guard. Keys hung up in usual place in habitation section, no intention of driving.

Where does that leave us?

AND what about the Motorhomestopover pubs? They are surely hoping we'll partake of their refreshments when we stay.

June
 

slobadoberbob

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Putting my legal hat on (again)

In reply to the OP, I have never heard of ANYONE being "done" for being Drunk in Charge whilst sleeping in a MH and wonder if any Funster can provide evidence of such.

This, I am afraid, is one of the Chestnuts that do arise now and then and was fairly well covered in Broken Link Removed

Steve

No I have not had a case to deal with regarding a motorhome.. but I have had several of drivers being in a car. Being in the drivers seat with there coat on the passenger seat with keys in said coat pocket.. drunk as a skunk... While I can argue a very good case of defence. I would say the law is clear ..being in charge of a motor vehicle. No mention of keys.. the keys are only an added bonus to police. You can be in the car in the drivers seat and that is enough to be breatherlised and then if over the limit arrested. Taken to a police station and put on the meter or have blood taken.

Regarding pub forecourts.. as previously stated if it has public right of way it is permissible for plod to enter and deal with the drunk in charge.

I agree the defence is if the car (or motorhome) cannot be driven.. chocks wheel covers, screen go to the defence aspect and I am sure I would have very little trouble mounting a defence, however I doubt that the CPS would proceed with that defence running.

Private land is as in a camp site or a show ground. Does not say you cannot be stopped on a show ground, but then it is a different ball game. Drunk in charge of a horse, bike or aircraft still are available to police. Or just plain drunk in a public place or a section 4 or 5 as needed public order offence can be preferred as needed.

I suggest care is taken where the keys are kept and what seat you decide to sit in.. a back seat would suggest you have retired to sleep it off but the keys must not be in the ignition or on your person.. glove box is better or left at the bar.

Here ends the law lecture.

Bob:Eeek:

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slobadoberbob

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what a shaggy dog story

Dunno, but I witnessed a guy parked outside a transport cafe some years ago get nicked.
2am: He was asleep in the back seat of a car when plod woke him, breathalised him and nicked him for DIC.
He hadn't a clue where his keys were and plod couldnt find them.
He obviously had no intention of driving, but that is neither an issue nor a defence.
He was drunk and he was in charge.
Plod was trying to explain to us drivers that he must have driven there drunk, but when it was pointed out that "must have...." isnt evidence, they went quiet.


In all fairness, he was as pissed as a rat, but could have got pissed there.


Any solicitor, even a junior could have blown that out of court.. love to have the case citation for this one? ...

Bob:Blush:
 

johnp10

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Any solicitor, even a junior could have blown that out of court.. love to have the case citation for this one? ...

Bob:Blush:

Dont know the outcome, Bob.
Just saw the guy carted off by plod.
As I understand it, intention to drive isnt the case, just plain Drunk in Charge is the offence?
I will of course bow to professional knowledge.

The business of horses: is "Furious Driving" still an offence? (speeding with a horse)
 

GJH

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Dunno, but I witnessed a guy parked outside a transport cafe some years ago get nicked.
2am: He was asleep in the back seat of a car when plod woke him, breathalised him and nicked him for DIC.
He hadn't a clue where his keys were and plod couldnt find them.
He obviously had no intention of driving, but that is neither an issue nor a defence.
He was drunk and he was in charge.
Plod was trying to explain to us drivers that he must have driven there drunk, but when it was pointed out that "must have...." isnt evidence, they went quiet.


In all fairness, he was as pissed as a rat, but could have got pissed there.

An uncle of mine got done in similar circumstances in the 1960s (pre-breathalyser days). If I recall correctly he had been sober when he drove, drank too much in the pub or wherever he was and decided to sleep it off until he was OK to drive. The danger was that he might have decided he was OK before he really was. He was bang to rights, he knew it and we all knew it.

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slobadoberbob

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Yes still on the staute books but was due to be removed

Dont know the outcome, Bob.
Just saw the guy carted off by plod.
As I understand it, intention to drive isnt the case, just plain Drunk in Charge is the offence?
I will of course bow to professional knowledge.

The business of horses: is "Furious Driving" still an offence? (speeding with a horse)

It was still on the staute books a while ago, but was listed for removal as not so many horses on the road. But as there is still road races in Sussex near the race track..even signs saying it is illegal to race horses and carts on the duel carriageway ... it has effected the removal of the Act .. it may just be combined in to the RTAS in the end.

Bob:thumb:
 

JJ

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In reply to the OP, I have never heard of ANYONE being "done" for being Drunk in Charge whilst sleeping in a MH and wonder if any Funster can provide evidence of such. Steve

My ex-wife's sister's boyfriend's brother, whilst drinking in a bar in Marbella, heard that a motorhomer had been arrested and taken to court for being drunk while asleep in his van.

He got off because his defence lawyer stated he had been gassed by Eastern European gang members.

He was, however, jailed for having an illegal Toad on the back of the camper...

JJ :Cool:
 

Squire

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My ex-wife's sister's boyfriend's brother, whilst drinking in a bar in Marbella, heard that a motorhomer had been arrested and taken to court for being drunk while asleep in his van.

He got off because his defence lawyer stated he had been gassed by Eastern European gang members.

He was, however, jailed for having an illegal Toad on the back of the camper...

JJ :Cool:


:ROFLMAO:
 

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