spoiling our hobby? (1 Viewer)

[mick noe]

On a run up the skeggy/mablethorpe coast today.... very bracing! we stopped off at a couple of cracking beaches perfect for a day out and easy access/parking for motorhomes All good so far but signs clearly say no overnight camping:Angry: which is a shame as they are ideal for a bit of wilding, but I can and do except that this is a holiday area with plenty of campsites and to have this parking blocked with overnighters could be seen as spoiling it for day visitors.
what worried me were the half dozen motorhomes/lorry conversions that were overnighting and during a conversation with local dog walkers I was told that because of this there is talk of putting height barriers at the entranceThis would be a disaster for motorhomers I am someone who enjoys the odd night wilding but if it says no overnight camping surely thats it?

 

[lorger]

Hi
I agree with you we dont do loads of wilding but when we do we would never park up for the night if it tells you not to. Like evrey walk of life a few spoil it for the majority.

Gerry

 

[Chris]

You reap as you sow

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[Squire]

On a run up the skeggy/mablethorpe coast today.... very bracing! we stopped off at a couple of cracking beaches perfect for a day out and easy access/parking for motorhomes All good so far but signs clearly say no overnight camping:Angry: which is a shame as they are ideal for a bit of wilding, but I can and do except that this is a holiday area with plenty of campsites and to have this parking blocked with overnighters could be seen as spoiling it for day visitors.
what worried me were the half dozen motorhomes/lorry conversions that were overnighting and during a conversation with local dog walkers I was told that because of this there is talk of putting height barriers at the entranceThis would be a disaster for motorhomers I am someone who enjoys the odd night wilding but if it says no overnight camping surely thats it?

There was me, thinking you were about to spoil your Hobby by drilling a hole in it ! :Blush:

Well, I would agree with you except ... how did you know they were 'overnighting' ? Presumably you visited during the day and didn't 'overnight' yourself? Secondly - if they were simply 'overnighting' there and not hogging the car park for several days with awnings, barbeques and so on, what's the harm in it? The car park would be otherwise empty at night, wouldn't it? Even if they were there for an odd day, what's the difference between a motorhome and a car parking there? They both have the same right to enjoy the beach, don't they? It's perhaps not as much as what they were doing as how they were doing it ...

 

[GJH]

There was me, thinking you were about to spoil your Hobby by drilling a hole in it ! :Blush:

Well, I would agree with you except ... how did you know they were 'overnighting' ? Presumably you visited during the day and didn't 'overnight' yourself? Secondly - if they were simply 'overnighting' there and not hogging the car park for several days with awnings, barbeques and so on, what's the harm in it? The car park would be otherwise empty at night, wouldn't it? Even if they were there for an odd day, what's the difference between a motorhome and a car parking there? They both have the same right to enjoy the beach, don't they? It's perhaps not as much as what they were doing as how they were doing it ...

We obviously don't have proof of the exact circumstances described in the OP so have to trust Mick's account because we have no reason not to.

What's the harm in it? For whatever reason "signs clearly say no overnight camping". The fact is that if people simply ignore those signs then they are going to annoy people who support them and provide ammunition to those who view motorhome owners as selfish people who, as a body, just do what they want.

If anyone thinks that such restrictions are not supportable in a given area the thing to do is to make a case as to why not and to show why the restriction should be removed. If a local authority acts unreasonably by simply refusing to countenance arguments then the complaints procedure (culminating in the Ombudsman/Standards Board) can be used to make it do so.

 

[TDH]

I get a little confused about this.

If a sign says 'no overnight parking' what does that mean? What if you arrive at two in the morning, or three, or four? Is that overnight? What about if you leave at three in the morning?

If the sign shows 'no sleeping', does that mean overnight? If so, as above, what is 'overnight'? Does it mean no dozing during the day?

I'm sure that these details are all in some by-law somewhere or other but if, for instance, I have an early-hours ferry to catch, how do I know what's allowed.

I take your point completely Graham, about not antagonising residents and that, in my head, is more important than what the law says - I assume in most cases unless the vehicle is presenting some kind of danger to other road users then the police aren't interested and it would take an enforcement order to 'officially' move one on, and by the time that's sorted anyone who was looking for a convenient overnight stop would be long gone.

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[jezport]

If it is so important that no one overnights there, then it should be policed and parking fines given.

 

[GJH]

(skip)
I'm sure that these details are all in some by-law somewhere or other but if, for instance, I have an early-hours ferry to catch, how do I know what's allowed.
(skip)

Yes, the detail will be in the Traffic Regulation Order which covers the car park. Some councils put them on their web sites now. All will provide a copy on receipt of a written request (they have to in order to comply with FoIA).

As a general rule, "no overnight parking" means no parking at all and "no overnight camping" means it is OK to park but not to occupy the vehicle. Councils sometimes ban sleeping, cooking etc specifically but often use the word "camping" to encompass them all.

As regards knowing what is allowed, the onus is on the individual to find out in advance - as always, ignorance of the law is no defence.

 

[GJH]

If it is so important that no one overnights there, then it should be policed and parking fines given.

Councils will usually try to minimise the cost to taxpayers by minimising the amount of checking, relying on the honesty of the public to comply with the law. They will, though, take action if non-compliance becomes a problem - and that might mean height barriers as mentioned in the OP, which would stop us enjoying the area during the day as well.

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[Squire]

We obviously don't have proof of the exact circumstances described in the OP so have to trust Mick's account because we have no reason not to.

What's the harm in it? For whatever reason "signs clearly say no overnight camping". The fact is that if people simply ignore those signs then they are going to annoy people who support them and provide ammunition to those who view motorhome owners as selfish people who, as a body, just do what they want.

If anyone thinks that such restrictions are not supportable in a given area the thing to do is to make a case as to why not and to show why the restriction should be removed. If a local authority acts unreasonably by simply refusing to countenance arguments then the complaints procedure (culminating in the Ombudsman/Standards Board) can be used to make it do so.

I think you are missing the point I was trying to make.

If the 'wild campers' constituted a nuisance then of course they should be moved on. But if the annoyance is only about them using an otherwise empty car park overnight that's a different matter. Prohibiting overnight parking in those circumstances is an act of selfishness by the local authority.

I think that many of these signs are really aimed at the travelling fraternity who ARE a law unto themselves and really do make a nuisance and incur many councils in expensive clean-up operations after they've left, and even then often only after expensive and lengthy court proceedings.

What would be so wrong with an (enforced) max stay of, say, 12 hours?

 

[GJH]

I think you are missing the point I was trying to make.

With respect, I don't think I was as the subject has been discussed so often

If the 'wild campers' constituted a nuisance then of course they should be moved on. But if the annoyance is only about them using an otherwise empty car park overnight that's a different matter. Prohibiting overnight parking in those circumstances is an act of selfishness by the local authority.

I think that many of these signs are really aimed at the travelling fraternity who ARE a law unto themselves and really do make a nuisance and incur many councils in expensive clean-up operations after they've left, and even then often only after expensive and lengthy court proceedings.

The signs are aimed at anyone who causes a nuisance (and it is not always obvious to any of us that others might view us as a nuisance). To do otherwise would be unlawful discrimination.

Unfortunately there have been plenty of cases reported of motorhomers who cause the same sorts of problems as the "travelling fraternity" (to use your term), so it is not simply one particular identifiable group. Also, before anyone else points it out, plenty of car drivers cause litter as well.

What would be so wrong with an (enforced) max stay of, say, 12 hours?

Nothing (IMHO) but the council concerned has to balance the needs of all parts of the community not just make provision for motorhomers. They need to be convinced that allowing a stay such as you suggest would be controllable. There are some councils who have made facilities available but it is up to individuals to make constructive approaches to increase the number. Simply ignoring signs will be counter-productive.

 

[TDH]

The idea of a restricted maximum stay period is the discussion that's been going on for ages, about whether or not we should have an 'aire' approach in the UK and it does address the issue about people, not just the 'travelling community' (whoever that is - I travel!) behaving unreasonably - as witnessed by the publicity about that bloke who spends his entire holiday on the front in some seaside town.

My point was more about what constitutes 'overnight' or 'camping'. If I turn up at Dover at midnight for a 5am ferry and decide to get my head down for a couple of hours in a layby somewhere with a 'no camping' sign, would I be in breach? What about if I arrived at 1am, or 2am, or 11pm the night before? If I kipped in the drivers seat rather than in bed in the back, would that be camping? :Confused:

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[GJH]

(snip)
My point was more about what constitutes 'overnight' or 'camping'. If I turn up at Dover at midnight for a 5am ferry and decide to get my head down for a couple of hours in a layby somewhere with a 'no camping' sign, would I be in breach? What about if I arrived at 1am, or 2am, or 11pm the night before? If I kipped in the drivers seat rather than in bed in the back, would that be camping? :Confused:

Yes, you probably would be in breach in each of those cases. The only way to make sure of what is and is not allowed is to check first with the body responsible for controlling parking. In most cases that will be the appropriate local authority. Off street car parking is usually a district council function and on street parking (including lay-bys) is usually a county council function.

 

[Jaygee32]

spoiling our hobby

Mick where were these cracking car parks. love to find ones with easy access to beaches or just overlooking the sea. not many about with M/home spaces. Not here in Norfolk anyway. We usually park at Chapel Leonard when we come your way. Good one in Norfolk is at West Runton.

 

[freelanderuk]

i live in the area and know these parking places , we have been in the car and on many a time seen motorhomes and at one parking spot large RV'S parked across the parking bays instead of between the lines with waste taps open draining there tanks, at one spot there was 15 vans there over night

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[Alan]

Skegness Parking

Skegness council has provided dedicated motorhome parking at the North Parade car park
and at the Jackson Corner carpark both adjacent to the beach but both only for daytime parking .There is a layby at Jackson Corner where people park and are no obstruction to any body and without any no sleeping signs ,ther are also several laybys on the burgh road just out of town which are also suitable for overnighting:thumb:
Alan

 

[GJH]

i live in the area and know these parking places , we have been in the car and on many a time seen motorhomes and at one parking spot large RV'S parked across the parking bays instead of between the lines with waste taps open draining there tanks, at one spot there was 15 vans there over night

Says it all Chris. Hardly surprising that councils react the way they do when faced with that sort of behaviour :Sad:

 

[slobadoberbob]

We seem to be so intolerant these days

We seem to be so intolerant these days. Motor home owners seem to pick what laws or by- laws or regulations or statutory notices they wish to obay or observe.

I have read many posts by those that tug cars behind the motor home that think the laws are not there for them. Then you get the IMHO brigade that are banging the drum not in such a humble way but as loud as possible to make the point.

Some will not allow other members point of view to be heard without shouting it down. All have a right to say what they think, right or wrong the point of view is what it is about.

No one sticks to the letter of the law .. Everyone bends it sometimes, regardless of the intention.. When did you last go over the speed limit or flaunted the highway code! .. Let him who is not guilty cast the first stone comes to mind. Me? Yes as guilty as all of you at times, but I accept that I am not perfect. My opinion is not humble and I do not hide behind platitudes.

Let everyone have there say fairly.

Very disappointing when you read posts that claim there view is the only right view.

Bob:Blush:

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[Alan]

Caravans NO Tents NO Campers ?

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Sorry to take the thread away from Skeg but just had to post these pics of where we are parked now this must be a grey area

Alan

 

[mick noe]

Mick where were these cracking car parks. love to find ones with easy access to beaches or just overlooking the sea. not many about with M/home spaces. Not here in Norfolk anyway. We usually park at Chapel Leonard when we come your way. Good one in Norfolk is at West Runton.

A pleasure to share with you.... moggs eye is one and the next one up from it towards sandilands next to golf course dont know the name.
I think the problem we have in this country is with no dedicated overnight parking(camping) areas for motorhomes AIRES........when parking in carparks laybys etc we are always on the edge of the rules and therefore trying to justify that what we are doing is OK and fair. probabley it is.. but not if it says clearly not to, as this is only going to create conflict and that is the last thing we need if we are going to enjoy motorhoming and expand our welcome:thumb:

 

[Alan]

Skegness Parking

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The best place to park overlooking the sea is Hutoft Car terrace its the last carpark between chapel St leonards and Mablethorpe, Its all tarmac surface with toilets and its FREE.
A few campers get there at weekends usually fishermen and If you do want to overnight there stick a fishing rod in your MH.
I've stayed there a few times without any problems and its very quiet odd nights you get a few young kids racing up and down in there cars.I believe that there is a few new age travellers at mogs eye they've been there for months.
Alan :thumb:

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[acting_strange]

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Sorry to take the thread away from Skeg but just had to post these pics of where we are parked now this must be a grey area

Alan

is that near Donna Nook??