Fulltiming Illegal? (1 Viewer)

Jim

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Jim mentioned in another thread about full timers having to live on the fringes of the law. I can understand that not telling the insurance company all of the facts about your lifestyle could land you in hot water, and or having a claim refused. That apart what other fringes are there? When else does a fulltimer get close to breaking any law?
 

Douglas

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On the same lines

Jim mentioned in another thread about full timers having to live on the fringes of the law. I can understand that not telling the insurance company all of the facts about your lifestyle could land you in hot water, and or having a claim refused. That apart what other fringes are there? When else does a fulltimer get close to breaking any law?

If you are eligible and claiming Council Tax benefit, (tax relief by another name) then you loose you eligibility if you stay away from your home for more that 13 consecutive weeks, the fact that you are not in another taxable dwelling seems to make no difference.

Can any one explain the reasons for this?

Doug...
 

rainbow chasers

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If you are eligible and claiming Council Tax benefit, (tax relief by another name) then you loose you eligibility if you stay away from your home for more that 13 consecutive weeks, the fact that you are not in another taxable dwelling seems to make no difference.

Can any one explain the reasons for this?

Doug...

Holiday homes and second houses!

Law was tightened up a few years ago - originally, if you owned a holiday/second home it was exempt from council tax whilst unoccupied - albeit a limited time - but it worked well for the owners who only paid a few hundred pounds a year. Councils varied on times, some were 6 months, some were 8 months.

It reached a peak in holiday areas, where places became virtual 'ghost' towns in the winter as they were all or mostly holiday/second homes - so the councils were losing out on massive amounts of revenue. So this was tightened up, and a 13 week restriction laid down on second/holiday homes.

Therefore - unoccupied houses for a period beyond this time, are classed as holiday/second homes and are not entitled for relief of any kind.

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Landy lover

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For a fulltimer with no C/O address .. for starters

Driving license , Vehicle registration, Passport, all require your address, failure to inform is an offense


These are surely the main reasons for keeping a genuine address going where your name is easily refered to by authoritiies in cases where they need to check up on you. When we went full time within a few weeks we had a letter from the local council asking where we now lived and there were other queries raised by different authorities because different names were being registered at our house and we had not notified of a new address - we gave satisfactory information so the problem went away but it was picked up quickly. Worth noting that if the police get involved and they cannot satisfy you and your address are genuine then you will be detained until they can. With the speed of modern computers and easy access information can be obtained checked and cross reference in seconds.
 
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Jim

Jim

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Isn't a rented address legal? One that just passes on any mail. I know it is for limited companies, how about individuals? Its a pain in the arse workaround, but I doubt its breaking the law, for either licence, log book or passport.

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rainbow chasers

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Isn't a rented address legal? One that just passes on any mail. I know it is for limited companies, how about individuals? Its a pain in the arse workaround, but I doubt its breaking the law, for either licence, log book or passport.


I can't see why not! Maybe not PO boxes - but pigeon hole mailing addresses should be fine!

As long as the mail is recieved, then surely that must be all is required. The only thing with insurance that may be requested is where the vehicle is kept - but that can be another property or storage place anyway, so I cannot see a problem!
 

Douglas

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Holiday homes and second houses!

Law was tightened up a few years ago - originally, if you owned a holiday/second home it was exempt from council tax whilst unoccupied - albeit a limited time - but it worked well for the owners who only paid a few hundred pounds a year. Councils varied on times, some were 6 months, some were 8 months.

It reached a peak in holiday areas, where places became virtual 'ghost' towns in the winter as they were all or mostly holiday/second homes - so the councils were losing out on massive amounts of revenue. So this was tightened up, and a 13 week restriction laid down on second/holiday homes.

Therefore - unoccupied houses for a period beyond this time, are classed as holiday/second homes and are not entitled for relief of any kind.

The above does not apply to me, I'm in a motorhome not a holiday home!

Doug...
 

scotjimland

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I can't see why not! Maybe not PO boxes - but pigeon hole mailing addresses should be fine!

As long as the mail is recieved, then surely that must be all is required. The only thing with insurance that may be requested is where the vehicle is kept - but that can be another property or storage place anyway, so I cannot see a problem!

I looked into this but decided against mainly due to costs .. IIRC about £30 per month.. plus costs of forwarded mail .. and to where would you have it forwarded if touring

Re Insurance, whatever you tell them about where it is kept will be a lie if you are living 365 in the van ..voiding the policy if found out. .

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rainbow chasers

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The above does not apply to me, I'm in a motorhome not a holiday home!

Doug...

I was of the understanding that, although you are full-time in your motorhome, you own a house.

Under the current laws, because your house is not your main residence, THE HOUSE is classed as a holiday home/second home - therefore is not eligible for any tax relief.

The motorhome is irrellevant as it is exempt anyway. It is the occupancy of the house that matters.

ScotlandJim; In your situation, you could have it forwarded to a friends' address and get them to read the letters/e-mail copies to you as the best option. It would need to be a trusted friend or family member however, as they will know all your dealings!
 

Bouncer123

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Leaving your address

These are surely the main reasons for keeping a genuine address going where your name is easily refered to by authoritiies in cases where they need to check up on you. When we went full time within a few weeks we had a letter from the local council asking where we now lived and there were other queries raised by different authorities because different names were being registered at our house and we had not notified of a new address - we gave satisfactory information so the problem went away but it was picked up quickly. Worth noting that if the police get involved and they cannot satisfy you and your address are genuine then you will be detained until they can. With the speed of modern computers and easy access information can be obtained checked and cross reference in seconds.

Hi there. Would you be able to tell me the 'satisfactory information' which you gave to the authorities who queried you, so that the problem 'went away'? Would appreciate any information. Thanks, Bouncer 123:winky:
 

Landy lover

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Hi there. Would you be able to tell me the 'satisfactory information' which you gave to the authorities who queried you, so that the problem 'went away'? Would appreciate any information. Thanks, Bouncer 123:winky:

I explained that I was still living there and the others were also - nothing in law to stop that - yet

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keith

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Not an illegal aspect, but i recently applied for a new bank account and because they could not find our address on the post office database they could not complete the application without contacting us.

I was moving accounts because the Nationwide stopped giving free withdrawals on their cash card and the Cumberland B S do not charge for foreign cash withdrawals.

For us it was not a problem as we had a council tax bill, l but it shows how a small slip could lead to further investigation.
 

Snowbird

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If you are on pension,am sure you need an address,if you have any state benifits,for example disability,sickness,or industrial injury,then they will stop.
How would you get a bank account with no address,they need proof of address,ie utility bills.I have enquired for over 10 years on this subject and am no wiser now than I was 10 years ago.Am now on pension,and still cannot fulltime,as much as it would suit me too.:Sad:
As for leaving the country for the winter...after 3 months your money stops...if you tell em.:RollEyes:
With the new system of scanning your passport in and out,there is no way round it.:Angry:
A few years ago there was a big crackdown in Benidorm,UK benifit investigaters going round the campsites with Spanish authoritys checking passport details at the office against UK benifit claimants,dead easy with modern day computers,how long had they been there etc. Mass exodus the following weeks,and they have not recovered yet.:Eeek:
It is feesable to fulltime whilst working,but almost imposible when you retire,and unless you want to die in harness you are going to retire somtime.
Big brother is watching all of us...all of the time.
 
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Jim

Jim

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If you are on pension,am sure you need an address,if you have any state benifits,for example disability,sickness,or industrial injury,then they will stop.
How would you get a bank account with no address,they need proof of address,ie utility bills.I have enquired for over 10 years on this subject and am no wiser now than I was 10 years ago.Am now on pension,and still cannot fulltime,as much as it would suit me too.:Sad:
As for leaving the country for the winter...after 3 months your money stops...if you tell em.:RollEyes:
With the new system of scanning your passport in and out,there is no way round it.:Angry:
A few years ago there was a big crackdown in Benidorm,UK benifit investigaters going round the campsites with Spanish authoritys checking passport details at the office against UK benifit claimants,dead easy with modern day computers,how long had they been there etc. Mass exodus the following weeks,and they have not recovered yet.:Eeek:
It is feesable to fulltime whilst working,but almost imposible when you retire,and unless you want to die in harness you are going to retire somtime.
Big brother is watching all of us...all of the time.

Sadly they are the impracticalities that affect anyone wanting to retire abroad whether in a motorhome or not. Benefits must be able to be paid to be people without addresses, I know genuine "homeless" (on the street) people who live on benefits so they must be paid somehow?

The question is (above) what legal fringes are we on when full timing, as far as I can see, its a pain, but completely legal.

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moandick

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One of the big problems that happened to us when we went full-timing occurred because we paid all of our 'bills' by direct-debit through internet banking - including our credit cards.

I was later told that because we paid all of our bills on time every time - we did not have a credit card rating - we became invisible to the "Experian" credit system as a result of which we could not get a loan of any sort - not that we needed it - but neither could we get Experian to give us a copy of our credit history - to them we simply did not exist.

Had we not paid a bill, or paid a bill late - then we would have had a credit rating (albeit a bad one) BUT we would no longer have been invisible to the system.

Six years later and back in bricks-and-mortar, on the local voting list etc., etc., etc - we still cannot get a copy of our credit rating because we cannot prove (with a utility bill) where we have been living for the past 5 years - so we are still going to be invisible for several years to come.

Dick
 

GJH

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Benefits must be able to be paid to be people without addresses, I know genuine "homeless" (on the street) people who live on benefits so they must be paid somehow?.

I recall from a few years ago that a decision was made to allow addresses something like "Third bench along in the park" to cater for people living on the street.

Having seen a number of compromises, in both central and local government, caused by the demands of an ill-fitting computer package foisted on them by one or other of their "strategic partners" I would guess that the reason was that the system would not work without an address.

In those cases, however, the claimants were actually going to a post office or benefits office to collect what was due to them so the address would never be used for postal purposes.

Graham
 
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Jim

Jim

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I recall from a few years ago that a decision was made to allow addresses something like "Third bench along in the park" to cater for people living on the street.

Having seen a number of compromises, in both central and local government, caused by the demands of an ill-fitting computer package foisted on them by one or other of their "strategic partners" I would guess that the reason was that the system would not work without an address.

In those cases, however, the claimants were actually going to a post office or benefits office to collect what was due to them so the address would never be used for postal purposes.

Graham

Yes you're probably right Graham I seem to remember they went direct to benefits offices for giro which they cashed at the local Spar off licence.

I imagine that the address field on almost all Government (benefit of any kind) computers is a compulsory field, not making it illegal but just nigh on impossible:RollEyes:

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GJH

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I imagine that the address field on almost all Government (benefit of any kind) computers is a compulsory field, not making it illegal but just nigh on impossible:RollEyes:

The problem comes when business/systems analysts (like I used to be at one time) don't do their job properly and make assumptions.

It used to be less of a problem in the early days of public sector software - oh what pioneers we were :Smile: - because people who had been doing the job manually for years were inevitably involved and they realised things like people having no address were an inevitability.

Then came the move (to cut costs) to buying in packages which, often enough, were based on existing systems written for the private sector because the people selling them "knew" that everyone was the same and/or didn't want to do the extra work to cater for the exceptions. If the computer system won't cope with the exceptions then the manual procedures around it have to be forced to do so.

Graham
 

Snowbird

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A few questions.
1 What address do you put on your driving licence?
2 .............................................insurance?
3 .............................................log book?
4..............................................passport?
5..............................................medical card?
6..............................................E111?
7What address do you use for your bank statements?
8.............................................credit card?
9.............................................breakdown recovery?
10............................................doctor?
11............................................dentist?
12............................................pension?
13............................................benifits...if apropriat?
14............................................if stoped by police..spot check?
15............................................mobile phone provider?
16............................................customs and excise...spot check?:Eeek:
17............................................TV licence?
18............................................if admited to hospital...sick?
19............................................bus pass?
The list goes on and on...most of these are legal requirments...those that are not you will find dificult to manage without.Try getting pulled by imigration or customs with no fixed abode and see how far you go.
 

scotjimland

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A few questions.
1 What address do you put on your driving licence?
2 .............................................insurance?
3 .............................................log book?
4..............................................passport?
5..............................................medical card?
6..............................................E111?
7What address do you use for your bank statements?
8.............................................credit card?
9.............................................breakdown recovery?
10............................................doctor?
11............................................dentist?
12............................................pension?
13............................................benifits...if apropriat?
14............................................if stoped by police..spot check?
15............................................mobile phone provider?
16............................................customs and excise...spot check?:Eeek:
17............................................TV licence?
18............................................if admited to hospital...sick?
19............................................bus pass?
The list goes on and on...most of these are legal requirments...those that are not you will find dificult to manage without.Try getting pulled by imigration or customs with no fixed abode and see how far you go.

the list goes on

* job application, (you either work or have a pension or both) ..
* CC or CCC membership
* voters role
* credit
* hire car
* video rental
* ferry/tunnel ticket
* French /British customs
* Road accident,

* try explaining to the Gendarme you have no address .. it did happen to us. We were questioned in Capbreton about Charlotte .. was she our daughter , why was she not at school, when were we going back to the UK .. etc. They took our passports for checking returming them a few hours later .. not a happy experience.

* Hospital admission

Not all essential ... but only a few can make life very difficult to say the least.

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John & Joan

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You only need a contact address for a TV licence. If you are Full Timing the registration of the Motorhome is shown on the Licence.

John
 

John & Joan

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We live in a Motor home Full Time. We do not have a house or permanent address. We use our daughters address for correspondence. Licences and other legal documents carry this address. You do not have an address on a passport, but there is provision for a contact and address in the back.


We are covered for Full Time use by Comfort Insurance. Our policy schedule is marked as such.


If Full timing was illegal Comfort Insurance through Aviva, would not offer cover.


At the end of this document are the terms.


Link Removed


Under the Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act 1960, it is unlawful for a land owner to permit a “Caravan” to be stationed for “Human Habitation” on his land for more than 28 days in a calender year, unless the landowner holds a Caravan Site Licence from the Local Authority, or holds an exemption from a limited number of bodies including exempted caravan clubs.


The offence is committed by the land owner not the occupant of the caravan. The term Caravan includes Motor Caravans.


Under paragraph 5 (certificated sites) there is no limit of stay stipulated in the 1960 Act just that they are limited to 5 vans at any one time. I had this out with Natural England and it turned out that the 28 day limit has been applied by the big clubs in conjunction with ACCEO and the DEFRA solicitors. The staff had then been instructed to apply this to all exempted clubs. The same applies to the paragraph 4 (Holiday site) limit of 28 days. The only stay limit in the Act is for paragraph 6 rallies that can only last up to 5 days.


Wildcamping:


If the caravan is stationed without permission on Private land, the land owner can seek a court order to have it removed. They cannot forcibly remove it.


If it is on Council Land without permission there are a number of conditions to be met before the caravan and occupants can be removed.


Gypsies and Travellers cannot be moved on unless they are causing a nuisance see this document


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John
 

John & Joan

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Yes you're probably right Graham I seem to remember they went direct to benefits offices for giro which they cashed at the local Spar off licence.

I imagine that the address field on almost all Government (benefit of any kind) computers is a compulsory field, not making it illegal but just nigh on impossible:RollEyes:

When I worked in a benefit office in the 1970s/80s. We had a regular Traveller family come to the same spot each year for a number of weeks and then move onto another area in a set patern. Some of them claimed benefit. Staff in the office decided, on their own bat, that they had to sign daily and get their giro by hand over the counter. I was appointed to the finance office post in that office and looked this up in the codes (staff instruction books).

If the Royal Mail were happy to deliver mail to this temporary address, then there was no reason why the giro could not be sent out in the normal manner. I then saw the manager and got the arrangement changed as the Royal Mail would deliver the mail.

A lot of so called rules are not official but are put over by those implementing them as if they are.

John

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Jim

Jim

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Hi John, am I reading that right? You must own a house or rent one before they will cover you full time in your motorhome?
 
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Jim

Jim

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Hi John, am I reading that right? You must own a house or rent one before they will cover you full time in your motorhome?


Ah, I see "unless a fulltiming rate has been agreed and paid" :thumb:
 

Snowbird

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We live in a Motor home Full Time. We do not have a house or permanent address. We use our daughters address for correspondence. Licences and other legal documents carry this address. You do not have an address on a passport, but there is provision for a contact and address in the back.


We are covered for Full Time use by Comfort Insurance. Our policy schedule is marked as such.


If Full timing was illegal Comfort Insurance through Aviva, would not offer cover.


At the end of this document are the terms.


Link Removed


Under the Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act 1960, it is unlawful for a land owner to permit a “Caravan” to be stationed for “Human Habitation” on his land for more than 28 days in a calender year, unless the landowner holds a Caravan Site Licence from the Local Authority, or holds an exemption from a limited number of bodies including exempted caravan clubs.


The offence is committed by the land owner not the occupant of the caravan. The term Caravan includes Motor Caravans.


Under paragraph 5 (certificated sites) there is no limit of stay stipulated in the 1960 Act just that they are limited to 5 vans at any one time. I had this out with Natural England and it turned out that the 28 day limit has been applied by the big clubs in conjunction with ACCEO and the DEFRA solicitors. The staff had then been instructed to apply this to all exempted clubs. The same applies to the paragraph 4 (Holiday site) limit of 28 days. The only stay limit in the Act is for paragraph 6 rallies that can only last up to 5 days.


Wildcamping:


If the caravan is stationed without permission on Private land, the land owner can seek a court order to have it removed. They cannot forcibly remove it.


If it is on Council Land without permission there are a number of conditions to be met before the caravan and occupants can be removed.


Gypsies and Travellers cannot be moved on unless they are causing a nuisance see this document


Link Removed

John
Ah, so what your saying is...its legal and you are able to fulltime as long as you use somone elses letterbox?.

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artona

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40 yrs and still not got a release date
or.. to put it another way,

There is no way to be legal unless you are tethered to an address ..


I challenge anyone to prove otherwise

I would equally like to see you show the legislation Jim which says you must have a property.

It is totally reasonable that you must be contactable. Non of us would be pleased if we were hit by a vehicle and then told the owner was homeless and not contactable.

Being contactable is one thing, being forced how we live is another

stew

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