Electric dog Collars. (1 Viewer)

[haganap]

Please dont judge me its only a question.

Since I came back from a recent meet whereby Tara had an altercation with a medium sized black dog after it attacked her she has gone absoloutly doo dally at the site of one. She has always had a thing about Motorbikes and getting aggressive towards them but I have always been able to cope with that.
However now, she has become completely mad toward other dogs that are large lab,collie size. She has attacked 3 in the last week and practically pulled me over today in her attempts to get at another owner who owns one.
This is something completely new, anyone who knows her would see how placid and fun she is with other dogs normally so I cant work out whats happened. I have tried the ignore, dont let her face it type of stuff but she will not take any notice. I am now having to keep her on a lead at all times which I really don't like doing.

Anyhow, I have been reading about electric dog collars as a training aid. I have seen they have been banned in Wales, but have read some very good stuff about there ability in training this sort of behaviour, especially the situation with say motorcycles. I note that Ceaser millan uses a form of shocking by using his hand for his famous "tisting" Although I note that It would be cruel to use it on a puppy, can you see any bennefit in using it as a correction aide? It is really distressing to see how aggressive Tara has become with these dogs, as well as embarrasing and Im not talking about using it to teach her circus tricks.

So anyone used one and anyone have any advice?

TIA

 

[tommytli]

we have a bichon frise then never sut up yapping so i bought 1 of these, every time she yapped it beeped to warn her after 3 beeps it give a slight shock and if they carry on the shock increases there is 5 differant shock levels, our dog only got shocked once and that was enough, the warning beep after that was enough.
i tried the shock on my hand before the dog and it wasnt bad before any 1 starts.
the collar was used for about 2 days and the problem was sorted and she only yaps when any other dog would ie someone at the door etc

 

[laneside]

laneside

There will be all sorts of differing views on this subject and I have to agree that they are not suitable to be freely available for use by the majority of the general public.

I have used one for one specific vice i e sheep chasing which could not be tollerated in this part of the country.

Like the previous post I tried it on my self first to see how severe it was (not very) I only ever shocked her twice and the problem was completely resolved.

If I had known any other method I would have used that instead and I would hope that someone like K9Brian off here comes up with a better solution for you.

Did I find it cruel No

Would I use it again Yes

Would I lend it to anyone to to train a puppy NO NO NO.

P.s Good ones are not cheap and you must let the dog wear it for at least a week before ever pressing a button, it must associate the shock with the vice not the collar


Alan

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[DESCO]

Totally agree with laneside, never had to use one myself but have seen them used, seemed to get very rapid results from my observations.

If I had a problem would not hesitate to use one, after all it is for the dogs own good as this could lead to all sorts of problems if left unchecked.


Dave :thumb::thumb:

 

[Road Runner]

I had trouble with Amy and tried a few training classes that helped.

Tara in normally an ACE dog as we have experienced on the meets.

Shame we have none for a while for her to socialise again.

Not keen on leccy devices.

Good luck Paul (your going through a crap time to:Sad

 

[Road Runner]

Jim may be of help and as already said K9brian

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[Douglas]

we have a bichon frise then never sut up yapping so i bought 1 of these, every time she yapped it beeped to warn her after 3 beeps it give a slight shock and if they carry on the shock increases there is 5 differant shock levels, our dog only got shocked once and that was enough, the warning beep after that was enough.
i tried the shock on my hand before the dog and it wasnt bad before any 1 starts.
the collar was used for about 2 days and the problem was sorted and she only yaps when any other dog would ie someone at the door etc

Do they do decorative ones for woman?

Doug...

 

[scotjimland]

Do they do decorative ones for woman?

Doug...

dunno Doug.. but I bet some school teachers would like them fitted to the 'so called ' dysfunctional kids .. ones that have a 'clinical' disorder

short sharp shock :thumb:

 

[Dodgey]

Do they do decorative ones for woman?

Doug...

dunno Doug.. but I bet some school teachers would like them fitted to the 'so called ' dysfunctional kids .. ones that have a 'clinical' disorder

short sharp shock :thumb:

In my day it was known as the board rubber, once was enough for most It missed me (just) but did the job anyway:thumb:

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[Geo]

First train the owner, then train the dog
Sorry Paul not with you on this one
Spent a fair amount of time with German Shepperd's, and at 18 month to two years old they try it on in many forms, especially who's the boss syndrome Stern voice commands is all it takes, if the owner and dog are both trained together
You unfortunately took Tara on as a rescue dog and lost the best opportunity training her as a pup
Back to school me thinks for you both:thumb:
Geo
ps if its recommended by a professional trainer then so be it but it would need to be an exceptional case

 

[movan]

Oh Paul, I'm sorry this has happened. Tara is so beautiful and we all know her from the meets as a friendly, laid back dog.... If she was a rescue dog it makes you think maybe it suddenly brought back memories of something from when she was a puppy?

Personally, my first thought was NEVER use an electric collar as there must be other ways of training them out of bad habits, but then when you think of times when other dogs have gone for my own little dog when out walking I think I would have gladly zapped THEIR dogs with a lazer beam!!!!:Angry: Also, as Alan says, near sheep I would rather zap my dog than have her shot.

I would try local training lessons first, but I think that might be difficult as time is precious to you now with your new education venture. Hope you manage to get it sorted. It would be so sad to see Tara having to be tied up .. she is a cracker.

 

[Terry]

Hi Paul while I agree with Geo :thumb: Tara is just too big a dog to take any chances with The dog lads in our village use them on some of the bad dogs for a few days with good results - indeed the owner of such a devise hires it out for the price of a drink - Tara needs a firm grip now or you may end up having to have her put down She is only doing what comes naturally You should see Max with rats after he was bitten by one
terry

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[ourcampersbeentrashed]

Awww poor Tara.

Its amazing what can traumatise pets.

Have you spoken to your local RSPCA officer for some advice? Its worth doing and/or your local dog training unit before resorting to electric shock treatment.

There may be something much kinder out there that will work.

Good luck with whatever route you decide

 

[dazzer]

Put a muzzle on it whilst it is being trained :thumb:

 

[Patrick]

Hi Paul,

So sorry to hear the news about tara!

We hope you can get her back on track. I don't see the problem with using the collar device. I have also read up on there use and if you use it properly it is only needed for a short while. tara is too big to take a chance she won't do it again if she’s of her lead.

I would never like to see our Max hurt in any way but i would use one of the collars on him if it would make him a safer dog in the same situation!

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[Road Runner]

I don't see the problem with using the collar device. I have also read up on there use and if you use it properly it is only needed for a short while.

Jan how is it working on Patrick

 

[JockandRita]

but I bet some school teachers would like them fitted to the 'so called ' dysfunctional kids .. ones that have a 'clinical' disorder

short sharp shock :thumb:

Can I order 74, delivered by 15.00 this afternoon please, before I pick the "wee darlings" up and take them home?

Seriously Paul, I do hope that whatever method is advised by expert trainers, I also hope that with their help, you and Nikki can return the lovely Tara to her old "good natured" self. She is a cracking dog.

Regards,

Jock.

 

[ehuplad]

Sorry to say this paul (but you proberbly already now it).

It is not the dog that needs training the dog knows what it is doing, it is the human.

You may not be aware (as i do not push the fact) I recently did a dog listner course and got invited back to do the advanced version so now am qualified to teach the method.

I would suggect that for now you continue to walk Tara on a lead until you can learn how to see the signals and listen to what your dog is telling you.

You need to reaferm the fact that you are the pack leader, a dog continously checks if you are capable to do this job, if at any time you fail, the dog will look to take this role although it does not want to, it thinks it must have a pack leader to survive.

The dog has 3 options when confronted with danager, freeze flee or fight, normally Tara did not see an other dog as a threat but it looks like this is now the case. the fight option is normally the last resort as the dog knows it could be hurt.

I would reccommend a book that you should read and then get back to me, after you have read it and put the proceedures into action, with any questions or quieries.

I also have a DVD that helps you see what is trying to be achieved by the book, let me know if you want to go down this route, if so i will send you the title of the book and lend you a copy of the dvd.

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[scotjimland]

Hi
I would be interested in reading this book.. can you pm me the details ?

cheers

 

[haganap]

Sorry to say this paul (but you proberbly already now it).

It is not the dog that needs training the dog knows what it is doing, it is the human.

You may not be aware (as i do not push the fact) I recently did a dog listner course and got invited back to do the advanced version so now am qualified to teach the method.

I would suggect that for now you continue to walk Tara on a lead until you can learn how to see the signals and listen to what your dog is telling you.

You need to reaferm the fact that you are the pack leader, a dog continously checks if you are capable to do this job, if at any time you fail, the dog will look to take this role although it does not want to, it thinks it must have a pack leader to survive.

The dog has 3 options when confronted with danager, freeze flee or fight, normally Tara did not see an other dog as a threat but it looks like this is now the case. the fight option is normally the last resort as the dog knows it could be hurt.

I would reccommend a book that you should read and then get back to me, after you have read it and put the proceedures into action, with any questions or quieries.

I also have a DVD that helps you see what is trying to be achieved by the book, let me know if you want to go down this route, if so i will send you the title of the book and lend you a copy of the dvd.

Thanks Mike,
What I can't work out though is why this morning she attempted to have a go at a big blcak dog over 100 ft away. The dog was with its owner walking away from us. Before she might of made a fuss to go and play with it but this am it was an attempt to go and attack it in an aggressive way. I have read a few books when we first housed Tara as she was as batty as a fruit cake and just wanted to play with everything and had never been socialised. I can't see I have changed my behaviour in any way, so where does that fit in with your theory? or are you saying I have changed it sub consciously?

 

[lallymc]

Hi Paul

dont know if you remember max on the last meet ,but he is our golden Retriever, (also a rather large dog)

He used to be so placid until a few years ago, he would walk off of the lead with us etc ...

A couple of years ago we put him in kennels, he went a few times, the last time he came home with cut paws and a bit stressed,didnt notice too much more until we went past another dog and max just went mad at it., almost like a protection thing with him.

Like Tara he is fab with people, and funny enough is fine with other dogs if he isnt on a lead !!! cant explain it.

if you find a answer let me know. good luck and dont be disheartened she is a gorgeous dog.

Leanne

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[Dodgey]

Thanks Mike,
What I can't work out though is why this morning she attempted to have a go at a big blcak dog over 100 ft away. The dog was with its owner walking away from us. Before she might of made a fuss to go and play with it but this am it was an attempt to go and attack it in an aggressive way. I have read a few books when we first housed Tara as she was as batty as a fruit cake and just wanted to play with everything and had never been socialised. I can't see I have changed my behaviour in any way, so where does that fit in with your theory? or are you saying I have changed it sub consciously?

Why, our expereince with Shelby, our Wesite, so a bit easier to deal with but.....

She was and still loves to meet other dogs, it defines an exceptional day for her but, german shepards, alsations or any dog that looks like either of those and the serious bark comes out, obviously she has the wit not to go for them but it's a blatant go away bark for want of a better description, and making sure the pack (me and the missus) knows it's there?

The why and the change are simple, couple of years ago a german shepard went for her so obviously she doesn't trust them and lets it be known. Obviously we have the benifit that being small she's easy to deal with, I've seen Tara in action One seriously big strong hound:thumb:

Good luck:thumb:

 

[haganap]

Thank's dodgey.

The difference is obviously I can't pick Tara up when she is naughty. or aggressive, Thinking about your westie though,
lets say that every time it showed aggression to a shephard you gave it a gentle shock (as earlier posters mention they have used) would this not cure it?

As said, I have seen Ceaser Millan use this type of treatment on dogs all be it without the collar and only his hand, and he describes this as a bite from the pack leader to say "im in control" "I am the leader" Granted I could try this with Tara, but you know, she is that thick skinned if Ive ever punished her she has laughed at me for hurting my hand.

Don't get me wrong, she till is a beautiful dog, she still is very well behaved in most aspects, except, this worrying dog thing and the motorbike thing. :Sad:

 

[Dodgey]

.

Thinking about your westie though,
lets say that every time it showed aggression to a shephard you gave it a gentle shock (as earlier posters mention they have used) would this not cure it?


:Sad:

It's not entirly agression, though it definatly is the most agressive bark she has and it's the only time, even next doors cat doesn't get that bark
The cat gets the strong bark with mad tail wagging, no wonder it's not that scared of her.

I'm kinda happy that she does bark as it lets me know she's concerened and either me or the wife can deal, removes the stress, though interesting point. If we stopped her would this 'stop' her is terms of stoping the barking or stoping the barking and the concern/stress. To me, later good, former, well I'd rather she bark but we, in this discussion, can't get away from the fact we can pick her up and settle her easily and she doesn't go for the offending canine.



We did toy with the idea of a collar early on to stop insesant barking when she was 9-12 month old but didn't but we did get a widget for the house as dogs, cats, horses pretty much anything with legs on telly had her charge through the house, out through the dog/cat flap in the conservatory into the garden and let rip with the barking. It was a sonic thing we put in the conservatory the emitted a dog level noise when a loud noise (bark) was detected. I think it was around £35 and two days and she'd stopped! Now she just grumbles from the sofa most times and if she really feel input required goes and stands in front of the screen and has a woof, doesn't last long before the comfort of the sofa gets the better of her, potty hound that she is!

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[sue1959]

We used to have a JR x Beagle. who was fine until one day this alsation x picked him up by his side and shook him. The other dog stood laughing at him and was taken quite by suprise when Midge grabbed him by the throat. luckily I had him on a lead.From then on the alsation used to cross the road everytime it had to pass our gate and then cross back when it had passed. Not long after that a rotweiler passed our gate on alead and decided to have a look in Midge took a chunk out of him luckily my husband was about and the rotty was on a lead! He was the most docile dog around people but the alsation experience changed him as far as dogs went. with other dogs
Needless to say we always kept him on a lead from then on.

 

[Munchie]

Our Rottie was attacked by a Westie when he was a pup and he never forgot. All his life he hated them. We could be out walking and with nothing in sight he would suddenly assume what we called the "Rottie stance" you know like a boxer squaring up for a fight? We knew as soon as we saw it there was a Westie around that we couldn't see. Bruce was a big soft lump but could never get that out of him.

Personally I would try the collar Paul or what about the plastic bottle 1/2 filled with hard peas that you give a shake each time the dog does something you want to stop? :thumb:

 

[Ralph-n-Bev]

Paul ,
as you know we have 2 Border Terriers. When Ruby was just over a year old she was attacked , whilst on a lead by 2 Labradors. They knocked down Isabel who was just over 2 at the time. They just appeared out of the long grass. They were gun dogs.
1 got her front at the back of the neck , the other her rear. Shaking her like a rag.
You can imagine the scene, me Ralph Jacob aged 4 and the twins 2 , panicking and trying to get the dogs off. Well should i say Ralph was , i was trying to get the kids away. The dogs were savage and Ruby was screaming. Horrible.
After that day she went from a very submissive dog , that laid on her back when charged at, to a dog that got the first bite in . She is 13 years old now. Although she has only bitten 3 dogs in 12 years, i never take the risk of letting her off the lead.

The first dog she bit was when we didn't know she would. Both dogs off lead , German Shepherd ran to her she got it by the neck She didnt break the skin , but the other dog was more shocked than anything . It couldnt get to her .
She was on the lead from then on.

The second was in the vets when she was on the lead and this big dopey Wiemara (sp) kept running up to her and jumping on her. It was on an extendable lead , but was being allowed to do it.
Id told the man to watch his dog as she was a bit keen. He replied if she bit him it would serve him right he needed teaching a lesson. I said she might do so if he carried on . And she did, on the bridge of his nose. Drawing blood this time. Good job we were in the vets oh:

The third time on a rally , Westy yapping and snapping every time we went past their caravan . Stretching on its wire to get to her . Then out for a walk on the lead , it wasn't , and it charged her.
She bit its ear and held on.:Blush:

Apart from embarrassing its not nice. I bought her a muzzle, but that just made her look vicious. She was on a lead after all . She was'nt strong enough to pull me over . They were charging at her .

Then I realised if she was on a lead and a dog charged at her , if i kept calm, kept her lead loose and talked in a sing song type of way like,
" oooo look ruby who's this coming to play. "
She usually relaxed .
If she didn't and the dog was aggressive , I'd yank her lead, pull her back and say "Ruby no" In a butch gruff voice.
This was normally met by the other dogs owner apologizing for their dog charging over.

When we are out where other dogs are we always keep her on the lead. Its not worth risking . She is a lot more social now as i walk for miles with them both.
Buster who's just over 2 , on the other hand is very sociable .
He just wants to run around like a nutter with his legs all over the place . Ask Scran
He has had a few dogs go for him cos he thinks everyone wants to play.
(Infact Tara had a go at him remember, when we were sat outside late at Misterton last year she got banished to the MH.:Blush
Hes only retaliated once , and not latched on like Ruby did. More noise and rolling around than biting.

We did notice that when we got Buster 2 years ago , Ruby really mellowed. She has never attacked him. I still wouldn't let her off though , unless we know were somewhere deserted.
I am the boss, with both dogs . The leader of the pack .
If i shout in my butchest voice Ruby down , or Buster no they cower .

Its awful really cos it looks like they are scared of me , as though i kick them or something. Its just the tone of voice you use. I do the same with the kids . Then they know I'm serious.

Now when out walking, Buster is off his lead running around with other dogs , and Ruby stays on her extendable lead.
Its sad , as shes such a lovely friendly dog and wants to play as well.

But I wont take the risk .
I'd hate her to spoil a dog , like she was spoilt.

Bev

P.S Electric collars.
if you have a yappy barking dog , i think you should be made to use an electric shock dog collar. Why do people just let their dogs yap yap yap all day. No control at all .
Ive known me report them on sites and move away from them on rallies. Drives me mad. Imagine having to live next to one:Angry: :shout:
((PS this bit isnt aimed at you edgy i was writing this whilst you posted.))

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[algy1]

We have a large German Shepard,and we live in the country side,the problem (big problem)is that when our boy sees a deer and there are lots of them,he takes off 100 mph and no amount of shouting will get him back,they call this prey drive,no one no matter how good they think they are at controlling their dog will get him to recall,our dog has perfect recall and has won 2 awards for obedience,any way I bought a pager collar,this distracts him from the drive and he looks around and returns straight away,you just need to break the drive not with anything cruel in our case a simple remote pager did the trick.

 

[Patrick]

Jan how is it working on Patrick

It's Rough Rough on him, he wears the trousers cos i let him!

 

[ehuplad]

Thanks Mike,
What I can't work out though is why this morning she attempted to have a go at a big blcak dog over 100 ft away. The dog was with its owner walking away from us. Before she might of made a fuss to go and play with it but this am it was an attempt to go and attack it in an aggressive way. I have read a few books when we first housed Tara as she was as batty as a fruit cake and just wanted to play with everything and had never been socialised. I can't see I have changed my behaviour in any way, so where does that fit in with your theory? or are you saying I have changed it sub consciously?

You probarbly do not know you have, but you have said in past posts that there is a lot happening in your life at present, Neighbours uni etc, a dog will soon pick up if you are not calm and in control, stressed agitated etc.

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