Is it legal to park in laybys over night? (1 Viewer)

[purpledoghouse]

Hi

We are very new to this and I was wondering if it is possible or legal/safe to stop in lay bys overnight? I have noticed that some say no overnight parking so I would rule these out but others don't seem to have restrictions on them. It just seems to me that some of them on back roads and in the middle of nowhere could be good stop over points...are there rules to how to do this and if so could you please advise.

Cheers

Purpledoghouse

 

[GJH]

Have a look at This Page on my web site. Note that this only gives the legal position as far as I have been able to find out about it. Some lay-bys might be less than desirable to stop in as a result of traffic noise and/or the "activities" of some sections of our varied population

 

[WynandJean]

That's nice and clear, then!
Wyn

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[GJH]

That's nice and clear, then!
Wyn

??????????

 

[acting_strange]

That's nice and clear, then!
Wyn

When I read it the message was as clear as mud that had fallen over and got muddy

 

[Wildman]

how clear do you want it. It is neither legal, nor illegal unless there is a local byelaw that prohibits it. By the time anyone sees you and contacts the council, who then have to contact the Police who then come and ask you to move you will be long gone anyway so why worry. The police on their own will not move you on, they have to be instructed to do so, UNLESS of course you are causing an obstruction.

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[GJH]

Even clearer than that I think Roger. If something is not illegal then it must, by definition, be legal.

In the case of the roadside and/or lay-by, therefore, if all national waiting/parking legislation is being complied with and there is no contravention of any local TRO then it has to be legal.

It is the civil offence of trespass on (non highway) land (no matter whether publicly or privately owned) which would risk invoking the scenario of the owner contacting the Police who then come and ask you to move.

The other point I didn't mention was the oft-discussed one of abuse by people staying for several days/weeks and causing annoyance/inconvenience to others - which results in restrictive TROs being passed.

Graham

 

[barryd]

Forget about the legalities. Just use common sense. If there are signs like you state saying no overnighting then best move on.

We wild camp all over the place but only if it is somewhere nice, safe, quiet and where I am not going to annoy anyone or inconvenience them. Laybyes are usually not the greatest places to stay unless they are well off the road and certainly not on a main road. Car parks can be ok but are frequently visited by boy racers late at night. What appears lovely during the day can look completley different at night.

Look for spots away from it all, where there isnt lots of tarmac for the Corsa brigade to annoy you all night, observe the surrounding area. If there is a council estate nearby, move on. If it doesnt feel right for any reason move on, there could be a great wild spot just around the corner.

 

[acting_strange]

how clear do you want it. It is neither legal, nor illegal unless there is a local byelaw that prohibits it. By the time anyone sees you and contacts the council, who then have to contact the Police who then come and ask you to move you will be long gone anyway so why worry. The police on their own will not move you on, they have to be instructed to do so, UNLESS of course you are causing an obstruction.

Sorry can I have it clearer please???? Its an age thing you know

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[RogerIvy]

See link below, it's a forum mostly dedicated to Wild Camping for motorhomes. It's not as big or as busy as Fun, but the folk are friendly and helpful. They've helped me a number of times to find a spot.


Rog

 

[purpledoghouse]

Thanks so very much will have a look.

 

[barryd]

If you join the wild site you can download a massive database of POI for your sat nav and google earth of wild camping spots across the UK.

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[mikamada]

Have a look at This Page on my web site. Note that this only gives the legal position as far as I have been able to find out about it. Some lay-bys might be less than desirable to stop in as a result of traffic noise and/or the "activities" of some sections of our varied population

Unfortunately the request for information on legislation was submitted as an FOI request which will only provide information if the public authority holds information of the description specified in the request (s(1)(a)). If they have not considered the question previously they will not be able to respond.

Whilst the DfT were confused, in the first instance, as to the response they should have given, which they did give in the end, the were actually quite helpful and gave an opinion (legal or not) in an attempt to assist the enquirer.

They did not need to give that opinion under the FOI legislation and when forced to comply with the letter and intent of the legislation by subsequent correspondence they gave the correct reply which was effectively that they have never considered the question.

Basically both departments have said that they have not considered the question in the past and one department attempted to be helpful by giving an opinion. It seems to me that for attempting to be helpful they have been castigated.

 

[slobadoberbob]

in a word NO.. but when has that stopped it

Hi

We are very new to this and I was wondering if it is possible or legal/safe to stop in lay bys overnight? I have noticed that some say no overnight parking so I would rule these out but others don't seem to have restrictions on them. It just seems to me that some of them on back roads and in the middle of nowhere could be good stop over points...are there rules to how to do this and if so could you please advise.

Cheers

Purpledoghouse

Firstly find a layby on a main road that is not full over overnight truckers... but it is illegal do so, but who enforces it? Saftey is the main issue I would worry about. But have had to do it on the odd occasssion or found a quite side street. Normally the bye laws are the ones to watch, but it is the enforcement that is hard, so I would do it ..just becareful.

Bob

 

[GJH]

Unfortunately the request for information on legislation was submitted as an FOI request which will only provide information if the public authority holds information of the description specified in the request (s(1)(a)). If they have not considered the question previously they will not be able to respond.

Whilst the DfT were confused, in the first instance, as to the response they should have given, which they did give in the end, the were actually quite helpful and gave an opinion (legal or not) in an attempt to assist the enquirer.

They did not need to give that opinion under the FOI legislation and when forced to comply with the letter and intent of the legislation by subsequent correspondence they gave the correct reply which was effectively that they have never considered the question.

Basically both departments have said that they have not considered the question in the past and one department attempted to be helpful by giving an opinion. It seems to me that for attempting to be helpful they have been castigated.

I submitted the request in full knowledge of FoI because I used to be a FoI Officer Any "castigation" was the result of the DfT wrongly (as they later admitted) claiming that the request did not qualify under FoI.

Why "unfortunately"? As I pointed out to the DfT, any request submitted as mine was automatically qualifies as a FoI request, whether it is stated to be one or not. It was, therefore, impossible for me to submit such a request and for it not to be a FoI request

I was seeking "details of legislation (if any)". Had there been any legislation (either way) then it would have been held by the DfT, being the government department responsible for that type of legislation. The answer given "We are not specifically aware.........." would have been a valid response under FoI had the first sentence mentioned "vehicles" rather than "caravans", another error which was later admitted by the DfT. The second & third sentences of the reply were certainly helpful but that was to be expected as it is a requirement of S16 of FoIA to give such advice & assistance (para 10 of the S45 Code of Practice).

The subsequent request to the Highways Agency was made in the (mistaken) belief that the HA was separate from the DfT and that the HA might hold information which the DfT obviously did not hold.

As someone who put a heck of a lot of work into training people (in both the organisation I then worked for and in others) I find it extremely annoying several years on from implementation of FoI (over 4 years in the case of the requests in question) when officers do not know the legislation they are supposed to comply with. When that happens I find nothing wrong in pointing out the error to the officer(s) in question. If that is castigation then so be it, I should have expected to be on the receiving end had I made similar errors

Graham

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[tonyony]

If it's "illegal" (different to "unlawful") then someone needs to tell the hundreds of truckers who clog them up every night on the A14 eastbound to Felixstowe

 

[GJH]

If it's "illegal" (different to "unlawful") then someone needs to tell the hundreds of truckers who clog them up every night on the A14 eastbound to Felixstowe

Legislation relating to HGVs using lay-bys overnight often differs from that relating to motorhomes. It recognises that HGV drivers are legally obliged to take breaks at certain times and, thus, their requirements are a higher priority. Local TROs may also be aimed at preventing longer term use by motorhomes but will allow HGV drivers (who are obviously there only one night) to stay.

Graham

 

[purpledoghouse]

lol never thought of that one!!!

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[Gonewiththewind]

See link below, it's a forum mostly dedicated to Wild Camping for motorhomes. It's not as big or as busy as Fun, but the folk are friendly and helpful. They've helped me a number of times to find a spot.


Rog

If its the site im thinking about, far from friendly, got slated by the owner and moderator for asking what the subscriptions are used for.
Thats not friendly.
THIS is friendly and the only friendly forum I know.:thumb:

Don

 

[scotjimland]

THIS is friendly and the only friendly forum I know.:thumb:

Don

I'll second that ... :thumb:

just read a post on Ch2 .. someone being called a "freeloading cheapskate "

 

[mondo]

As a former HGV driver overnighting in laybyes was not really on my list of places to stay..obviously if I was getting near to my spreadover time it would have to be a laybye.(usually a last resort) but one that was well seperated from the road..nothing worse than being shook about in the cab all night...the quiet industrial estates were always preferred as there was usually the local constabulary roaming around so you were reasonably safe

I must say though just before I quit driving and bought my first Motorhome I was overnighting in a laybye and a motorhome came in and parked up so I had a quick chat and mentioned that I was buying a M/home and I asked him why he was parking in a laybye and he just said he did it on a regular basis when he was out and about.

I think the laws and bye laws are there to stop the travelling fraternity and the new age chaps from moving in and clogging it all up...that said about laybyes most councils are now closing a lot of the bigger laybyes on main trunk roads to stop this sort of overnighting so they are getting few and far between!!

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[RogerIvy]

If its the site im thinking about, far from friendly, got slated by the owner and moderator for asking what the subscriptions are used for.
Thats not friendly.
THIS is friendly and the only friendly forum I know

I must say I haven't been on that site for a while, we prefer to use CLs and proper camping grounds in the UK (we simply sleep better and feel the camper is more secure when we drive around in the toad). Very happily wild camp on the continent, particularly France.

I agree that this is a friendly forum. I used to enjoy facts until a particularly nasty thread and now I won't touch it. I actually asked the mods to shut the thread down when it started getting nasty and never heard from them.
Well done to the mods here.

Rog

 

[oldun]

Even clearer than that I think Roger. If something is not illegal then it must, by definition, be legal.Graham

This is rather dangerous logic to apply here.

Someone has seen one statement that says some action may not be illegal which does to seem to imply that it is legal BUT how can you be sure that there are not other unseen regulations/laws that make the action legal.

The law is very difficult to understand that's why there are thousands of highly paid parasites who spend all their time getting around it for you (that's if you have the millions to pay them).

Whilst in Cornwall I used several car parks with notices that stated "vehicles on the list below were not allowed to park there". As there was no list shown below I was rather confused.

I managed to talk with a car park attendant (or is he now a transport logistic control executive!) who told me that if there was no list shown then there were no excluded vehicles. Imagine trying to use that statement as a form of defence in court.

 

[GJH]

Originally Posted by GJH
Even clearer than that I think Roger. If something is not illegal then it must, by definition, be legal.Graham

This is rather dangerous logic to apply here.

Someone has seen one statement that says some action may not be illegal which does to seem to imply that it is legal BUT how can you be sure that there are not other unseen regulations/laws that make the action legal.
(snip)

Why dangerous? I made no mention of any number of statements which say "some action may not be illegal". Illegality and legality are mutually exclusive. Establishing that something is not illegal implies making all relevant checks, not just seeing one statement

Graham

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[keithfal]

staying in laybys

how clear do you want it. It is neither legal, nor illegal unless there is a local byelaw that prohibits it. By the time anyone sees you and contacts the council, who then have to contact the Police who then come and ask you to move you will be long gone anyway so why worry. The police on their own will not move you on, they have to be instructed to do so, UNLESS of course you are causing an obstruction.

Arrive late and leave early! If staying in a layby be prepared to be awoken at any time of the night by people who are changing drivers, clothes, partners .....We have had no trouble so far and some laybys have had spectacular views.
Keith

 

[mandrake]

they are a good place to overnight ,but if on a main road prepare for noise most of the night .always try to pick one with a barrier or grass area between you and the road and dont park in the middle as a hgv may need to use that laybie they use them when they need to stay when out of driving time .we have just finnished a 18 month full timeing in our van and used laybies and public car parks all the time

 

[HeatherChloe]

It is clear that it is acceptable for a motorhome to be parked on a street overnight - for all of us who do not have drives, motorhomes are parked on the street, and so long as they are legally parked, there is no problem.

The question of whether one can actually sleep in the parked motorhome should be no different to the question of whether one can sleep in a car.

It is certainly the case that you are allowed to be in your car or motorhome parked on the street without driving it - for example, you may get in the car and take some time to plan your route, or you may be in a car waiting for someone to finish the shopping or you may be parked in your car waiting for your child to finish their ballet lesson and so on. And if you have a snooze whilst waiting for someone, that surely can't be illegal.

So does it matter whether you have the snooze in the daytime or in the nighttime? Seems unlikely.

In terms of having a snooze in your vehicle, the highway code suggest that you should do so when you are tired -

The 80. Driving when you are tired greatly increases your accident risk. To minimise this risk

Make sure you are fit to drive. Do not undertake a long journey (longer than an hour) if you feel tired.
Avoid undertaking long journeys between midnight and 6am, when natural alertness is at a minimum
Plan your journey to take sufficient breaks. A minimum break of at least 15 minutes after every two hours of driving in recommended
If you feel sleepy, stop in a safe place. Do not stop on the hard shoulder of a motorway
The most effective ways to counter sleepiness are to take a short nap (up to 15 minutes) or drink, for example, two cups of strong coffee. Fresh air, exercise or turning up the radio may help for a short time, but are not as effective.


It therefore seems that if you park your motorhome on the street in a place where it is legal to park, then there is little difference in law whether you then check into a hotel nearby, or whether you actually sleep in the motorhome. You can claim that you were sleepy (as you no doubt would be at nighttime) and were following the highway code which suggests that you stop in a safe place until you feel less sleepy and capable of continuing to drive.

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[joncris]

Forget about the legalities. Just use common sense. If there are signs like you state saying no overnighting then best move on.

We wild camp all over the place but only if it is somewhere nice, safe, quiet and where I am not going to annoy anyone or inconvenience them. Laybyes are usually not the greatest places to stay unless they are well off the road and certainly not on a main road. Car parks can be ok but are frequently visited by boy racers late at night. What appears lovely during the day can look completley different at night.

Look for spots away from it all, where there isnt lots of tarmac for the Corsa brigade to annoy you all night, observe the surrounding area. If there is a council estate nearby, move on. If it doesnt feel right for any reason move on, there could be a great wild spot just around the corner.

Thats the beauty of RV'ing don't like the stop move on simples:thumb:

 

[MicknPat]

Have a look at This Page on my web site. Note that this only gives the legal position as far as I have been able to find out about it. Some lay-bys might be less than desirable to stop in as a result of traffic noise and/or the "activities" of some sections of our varied population

They must employ people to write such gobbledygook and as rate payers us fools pay them :Angry:

 

[GJH]

They must employ people to write such gobbledygook and as rate payers us fools pay them :Angry:

Gobbledygook? The original respondent was wrong in not treating the initial request properly but otherwise the responses are clear enough.