Leisure battery not powering the bits it should - view sort (1 Viewer)

casls650

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Hi I only seem to post on here when I have a problems. My next post will be a non problem one. I promise ::bigsmile:

I have a ford freda (mazda bongo) My leisure battery is supposed to power 1 x 12v socket, 1 x light, 1 x water pump. None of these are working. Even when hooked up to mains. I have checked known fuses and cant find fault. I have only had the van since March. I took Freda to a electrical place and the man sucked in his breathe and told me it was unsafe and that I should have it all redone. He quoted £450.

1) from these pictures what are the problems?

2) Is it that bad?

3) Ideas can I get the 12 v stuff working again.

4) Do you know of electrical place I can take this near Coventry for a second quote


wires2pg.jpg

wires3pg.jpg

wires4pg.jpg

wires5pg.jpg


BIG THANK YOU AS EVER

Cas x
wires1pg.jpg
 

johnpengers

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That does not look right in anybodies book,it's a diy disaster and without alarming you should be sorted asap.
On the brighter side what you are requiring of the battery is pretty basic so a good auto electician could help or the local caravan dealer who does repairs or,better still have a go yourself with the help of a friend who knows what to do.
12 volt stuff is'nt that difficult to get your head around.

John P.:thumb:
 

keith

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I would think the quote was purposely high. Looking at your pics it looks like a lot of work to tidy it up while testing every connection & they didn't want to be bothered.

Got a mate with electrical knowledge? I think all the connections would have to be tested.

Just a thought, is the battery fully charged? Are the battery terminals tight & clean? I would start there if it were me.

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Fatalhud

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Looking at that Spaghetti, I can see why he quoted so much.
It could take 1 day just to work out what was doing what

Alan H
 

dazzer

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Dont be daunted by it. Your system is so simple its childs play.

Are you any good at DIY and have a basic understanding of electrical systems??

Whatever you do the first thing is to disconnect the battery and charge it with a trickle charger for 24 hours, let it stand for an hour and take a voltage reading. Leave disconnected for a day or so and then take another voltage reading, if it changes much the battery is dead and needs replacing.

After that its simply a matter of tracing trhe wires, checking each connection and fuse (and fitting fuses if you dont find any!!!) and tidying it up. Shouldnt take longer than a day at the most. :thumb:

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dazzer

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Thats a very sexist comment, are you saying ladies cannot do electrics??:Eeek:

One of the best auto electricans ive ever met is a woman!!!:thumb:
 

zen navigator

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To add my two penny worth.

You can ascertain if you battery is serviceable quite quickly.

Check the open circuit voltage i.e ignition off\no load on the battery.

Get a digital \ analogue voltmeter \ multimeter and test the voltage.

A fully charged battery will give approx a reading of 12.6 v, 12.4 for 3/4 12.2 for 1/2 and 12.0 1/4 below 12v and you in trouble. These are approx and you can get the exact reading off the web.

Then depending on the reading will determine the charge you need. a trickle charge is not going to do it if your battery is a 1/4 charge and has been like that for a while. You need to stage charge at 13.2 v to 14.4v to get the maximum performance\charge into battery. There are some good\cheap stage chargers on the market.

This can be done with a cheapo charge for a discharged battery 13.2v(2.2v per cell x 6) for 4 hours then bang 14.4v(2.4v per cell) for 12 hours total of 16 hours MAX! . Then check the battery. Leave for a couple of hours and check again and compare to the open circuit voltages. If the voltage drops to 12v or below bin and get a new one

There plenty of stuff on the web. Just google :thumb:

Clearly if your battery is good then start check for splits in the cable\wiring, fuses, signs of rust and corrosion etc.

Have fun

Dave

Dont be daunted by it. Your system is so simple its childs play.

Are you any good at DIY and have a basic understanding of electrical systems??

Whatever you do the first thing is to disconnect the battery and charge it with a trickle charger for 24 hours, let it stand for an hour and take a voltage reading. Leave disconnected for a day or so and then take another voltage reading, if it changes much the battery is dead and needs replacing.
:cry:
After that its simply a matter of tracing trhe wires, checking each connection and fuse (and fitting fuses if you dont find any!!!) and tidying it up. Shouldnt take longer than a day at the most. :thumb:

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johnpengers

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Dont be daunted by it. Your system is so simple its childs play.

Are you any good at DIY and have a basic understanding of electrical systems??

Whatever you do the first thing is to disconnect the battery and charge it with a trickle charger for 24 hours, let it stand for an hour and take a voltage reading. Leave disconnected for a day or so and then take another voltage reading, if it changes much the battery is dead and needs replacing.

After that its simply a matter of tracing trhe wires, checking each connection and fuse (and fitting fuses if you dont find any!!!) and tidying it up. Shouldnt take longer than a day at the most. :thumb:
Best advice on this thread,follow it and you will be fine,if you start worrying about all the jargon you will just confuse yourself !!!
You will be fine.

Regards,John P.:thumb:
 
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casls650

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That does not look right in anybodies book,it's a diy disaster and without alarming you should be sorted asap.

John P.:thumb:

John

I hate to admit but this is a professional job, not diy. It was done by the company I bought the van from. Sounds like the electrician who looked at it was right. He though I had done it and struggled to believe that this was done by a company who offers conversions

Cas x
 
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casls650

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Dont be daunted by it. Your system is so simple its childs play.

Are you any good at DIY and have a basic understanding of electrical systems??

Whatever you do the first thing is to disconnect the battery and charge it with a trickle charger for 24 hours, let it stand for an hour and take a voltage reading. Leave disconnected for a day or so and then take another voltage reading, if it changes much the battery is dead and needs replacing.

After that its simply a matter of tracing trhe wires, checking each connection and fuse (and fitting fuses if you dont find any!!!) and tidying it up. Shouldnt take longer than a day at the most. :thumb:

I have checked all the fuses I can find. You do make it sound so simple, but i think I must be a toddler. I have never even discounting a battery before, and I dont have a trickle charger or a volt meter. I will have another look at the fuses, just in case. The electrician I took it to wanted to redo all the writing as he didnt like what he saw. One of the things he did not like is that there is a lot of red wire used and it is not colour coded for the type of thing it carries. He said this means he dosent know easily what is live or neutral

Cas x

Cas x

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johnpengers

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John

I hate to admit but this is a professional job, not diy. It was done by the company I bought the van from. Sounds like the electrician who looked at it was right. He though I had done it and struggled to believe that this was done by a company who offers conversions

Cas x

Hi Cas,I honestly can't believe its been installed by a 'professional'. He certainly does"nt take pride in his work.
Without teaching you to suck eggs but have you taken it back and complained ? you have obviously paid hard earned cash for a job that is not acceptable.
Without sounding sexist I hate people being ripped off especially females.

Regards,John P :thumb:
ps,let us know how you go on,it would be good to know you are safe and enjoying your motorhome.

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Sep 27, 2007
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Cas,

As you are based in Coventry, may I suggest you have a chat with C.L.S. they are based within easy reach of you, and would be able to confirm what actually needs to be done. They may be able to advise by looking at your photo's.

www.centralleisureservices.co.uk I think

Nomadic
 
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casls650

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Hi Cas,I honestly can't believe its been installed by a 'professional'. He certainly does"nt take pride in his work.
Without teaching you to suck eggs but have you taken it back and complained ? you have obviously paid hard earned cash for a job that is not acceptable.
Without sounding sexist I hate people being ripped off especially females.

Regards,John P :thumb:
ps,let us know how you go on,it would be good to know you are safe and enjoying your motorhome.

John

I have sent an email of complaint last week when I realised there was a problem. I am awaiting a reply a rang monday to try and speak to them, but person was in meeting. The secretary said she would get him to ring me back.

I will persever.

Cas
 

pappajohn

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dont wait for them to ring you....the guy you want will always be in a meeting/off sick/on holiday and the secretary will 'forget' to tell him anyway..

keep annoying them with regular calls 'til someone talks to you.

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casls650

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bit of an update

Thanks so much for all the advise. I asked my neighbour and he has a battery charger. Stuck battery charger on battery, lights etc work. So at least I now know it is not fusing and it is something to do with the charging or discharging. I plan to charge for 4 hours (as recommended by said neighbour) whilst watching the dial drop, and then see how I get on. This should get me through the weekend and then I do need to sort out a professional.

thank you. Now the rant.

I am loathed to do this until I can get hold of the company who supplied my vehicle. I do not see why I should pay for the shoddy work, particularly as in the 2 months I have had the van I have had the van I have fixed a hose pipe leak, a diesel leak, replaced the under pans. I have also been told the Tyres are crud. ATS refused to balance them as they are so perished! yet it came with a 12 month MOT . :shout::shout:
phew I feel better now

Cas
 

wildbri

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Well that is certainly a lot of untidy wiring. From the pics I can see that you have a leisure battery as well as the vehicle battery, the grey box with RING written on it is a 4 stage
battery charger for when you are on electrical hook up, I believe this will charge a fully discharged battery, it should have lights on when on mains. I think that I could see a split charge relay so both batteries should charge when the engine is running. You seem to have all the kit required but it does look a mess and all those cables should be tied up for safeties sake. I suggest that you send the photos to the people from whom you purchased the vehicle tell them that you have published them on a motor home forum and that we are appalled and that it should be quickly sorted. regards bri:Smile:
 
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casls650

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Well that is certainly a lot of untidy wiring. From the pics I can see that you have a leisure battery as well as the vehicle battery, the grey box with RING written on it is a 4 stage
battery charger for when you are on electrical hook up, I believe this will charge a fully discharged battery, it should have lights on when on mains. I think that I could see a split charge relay so both batteries should charge when the engine is running. You seem to have all the kit required but it does look a mess and all those cables should be tied up for safeties sake. I suggest that you send the photos to the people from whom you purchased the vehicle tell them that you have published them on a motor home forum and that we are appalled and that it should be quickly sorted. regards bri:Smile:
The electrician I took it to said that the bits of kit are not "good enough". The relay is a 30AMP. He says as my leisure battery is 85mp I would have to go to Scotland and back to get it charged. He also said the 4 stage charger is for a motor bike, and that would take all week to charge the van, and if I use it whilst hooked up it would draw more than it gains. To think I paid an extra £70 to have a mains charger fitted. :cry: He also said things that scared me eg: that there is no vent to the battery and that when charging the battery creates fumes, which I will breathe in, and that the earth lead is too thin, and loose, which could result in shorts and shocks.

Reason I posted these on here is that I know it looked a mess, but as I dont have the skill, I didnt know if he is trying it on. I dont really know who to trust. Seems like he may have been right.

hanx

Cas x

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Fatalhud

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Hi Cas
Is this a new conversion:whatthe:

The fact that you now have light with a charger plugged in at least tells you the leisure battery was dead flat, It may now be knackered

Did the dealer show you everything working before you picked it up,

Is the battery charger that you bought (ring Smartcharge 4) showing any indication of power at it (led's lit up)

If not it could be duff


In the first photo, I can see a crocodile clip is this for the charger, and if so do you remove the charger after use, If not the crocodile clips need replacing for insulated ring crimps

If you bought a cheap volt meter that reads DC volts we could talk you through checking the battery and charging systems

As for what the Electrician is telling you


The Ring Smartcharge 4 (photo 1) although not ideal, will charge at a rate of 2-4amp
normally your battery will not be fully drained, but if it was it would take around 20 hours to charge (not a week)
You should not let the battery go below 50% of full charge, so in normal conditions it will only take around 10-15 hours

The fact that you only have 1 light and 1 12v socket then the current drain on the leisure battery is never going to be that much

The charger will put 48 watts max into the battery
I would have thought your 12 volt light would be no more than 20 watt
Even if you did draw more than 48watt, you would be unlikely to do it 24 hours a day, so it would catch up over night (if on mains hook up)

The split charge relay (photo 4) is of a type that is triggered by voltage
When you start your van the voltage will rise as the alternator works, when the voltage goes above 13.5 volt (approx) the relay operates and sends charging current to the leisure battery
The rating of the relay should be ok, Just because the battery is 85amp/hour does not mean the relay has to be 85amp

When the engine is running it would normally self regulate itself to around 7-20amp, in fact my Motorhome has a 20amp fuse protecting it and I have 2 x 110 amp/hour batteries and they have never blown

The split charge system is designed to top up the battery, but it will only charge it to about 80-90% of its capacity

I think most of what I have said is correct and hope it helps

Alan H
 
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Well that`s our 13th year & still loving it.
thank you. Now the rant.

I am loathed to do this until I can get hold of the company who supplied my vehicle. I do not see why I should pay for the shoddy work, particularly as in the 2 months I have had the van I have had the van I have fixed a hose pipe leak, a diesel leak, replaced the under pans. I have also been told the Tyres are crud. ATS refused to balance them as they are so perished! yet it came with a 12 month MOT . :shout::shout:
phew I feel better now

Cas[/QUOTE]

Just a point, if the van came with 12 months MOT and the tyres are as you say then I would just take the van back to the dealers with the MOT and your complaints and tell that if they don`t sort out your problems then you will be asking the people that check out MOT stations to look at the van.

E mailing will never do any good, they have your money and all you have to do with an e-mail is press the delete button, you need to be calm and collected but also get in their face.
Good luck.
 

johnpengers

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dont wait for them to ring you....the guy you want will always be in a meeting/off sick/on holiday and the secretary will 'forget' to tell him anyway..

keep annoying them with regular calls 'til someone talks to you.

Spot on advice,Come on Cassie make a nuicance of yourself,my wife hounded Swift something rotten when our 'brand new Sterling Elite Searcher caravan' turned out to be damaged and repaired.We ended up with a new one much to my surprise.
I think legally you have to give the company a chance to put the faults right and in Swifts case they had three goes and still did'nt get it right.

Regards,John P.:thumb:

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pappajohn

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The electrician I took it to said that the bits of kit are not "good enough". The relay is a 30AMP. He says as my leisure battery is 85mp I would have to go to Scotland and back to get it charged. He also saidthe 4 stage charger is for a motor bike, and that would take all week to charge the van, and if I use it whilst hooked up it would draw more than it gains. To think I paid an extra £70 to have a mains charger fitted. :cry: He also said things that scared me eg: that there is no vent to the battery and that when charging the battery creates fumes, which I will breathe in, and that the earth lead is too thin, and loose, which could result in shorts and shocks.

Reason I posted these on here is that I know it looked a mess, but as I dont have the skill, I didnt know if he is trying it on. I dont really know who to trust. Seems like he may have been right.

hanx

Cas x

the relay has nothing to do with the charge time...a 30amp relay means its capable of passing 30amps safely...if the alternator charges at 30amps it will take just under 3 hours from dead flat to fully charge your 85ah battery.
if it charges at 60amps it will take around 1.5hrs (with a 60a relay of course)
both these times are basic and will vary enormously depending on the vehicle battery condition/charge state etc.

ageed that the charger would take a long time to charge the battery if it is a bike type rated at only 4amp to 6amps...4 amps would take over 20 hours from dead flat.
Aldi were selling the equivelent to yours for around £10 so you were well and truly ripped off with that.

your mains charger should be at least 15amps or you will drain the battery faster than it can charge it when using lights/tv etc

the last bit is a mystery..."if used on hookup it will draw more than it gains" ?????
it can only be used on hookup/genny, so theres no logic in his comment.

i'd suggest you charge it for at least 24hrs...not the 4hrs suggested by the neighbour.
 
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casls650

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the relay has nothing to do with the charge time...a 30amp relay means its capable of passing 30amps safely...if the alternator charges at 30amps it will take just under 3 hours from dead flat to fully charge your 85ah battery.
if it charges at 60amps it will take around 1.5hrs (with a 60a relay of course)
both these times are basic and will vary enormously depending on the vehicle battery condition/charge state etc.

ageed that the charger would take a long time to charge the battery if it is a bike type rated at only 4amp to 6amps...4 amps would take over 20 hours from dead flat.
Aldi were selling the equivelent to yours for around £10 so you were well and truly ripped off with that.

your mains charger should be at least 15amps or you will drain the battery faster than it can charge it when using lights/tv etc

the last bit is a mystery..."if used on hookup it will draw more than it gains" ?????
it can only be used on hookup/genny, so theres no logic in his comment.

i'd suggest you charge it for at least 24hrs...not the 4hrs suggested by the neighbour.


Thank you so much for you post. I has demistified what the amps and relays mean

Cas x
 
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casls650

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Hi, I finally managed to get hold of the company. The guy is incredibly articulate, and i struggled to get a word in. Being dyslexic I do struggle sometimes to get the words out, and he just talked at me and it was awful. The call was 22 minutes long and for 18 mins and 20 seconds of this it was him who talked! He hung up on me at the end. I felt so small and out of my depth. At one time he offered me my money back, but when I said yes and that I would want money for the necessary fixes he changed his mind. He told me that if I contact him again he will take action. I dont know what that means. When I told him I had posted on the forum he said he would come on and say I was an awkward customer. All I want is my van to be fixed and in working order I dont think that is being awkward, particularly as I have only had it 2 1/2 months. I have contacted trading standards and I am now going to pursue it that way. Even tho he did say that he would laugh at me if I took him to court.
Thanks to all the support, its a shame there are people like that.

Cas x

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pappajohn

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Hi, I finally managed to get hold of the company. The guy is incredibly articulate, and i struggled to get a word in. Being dyslexic I do struggle sometimes to get the words out, and he just talked at me and it was awful. The call was 22 minutes long and for 18 mins and 20 seconds of this it was him who talked! He hung up on me at the end. I felt so small and out of my depth. At one time he offered me my money back, but when I said yes and that I would want money for the necessary fixes he changed his mind. He told me that if I contact him again he will take action. I dont know what that means. When I told him I had posted on the forum he said he would come on and say I was an awkward customer. All I want is my van to be fixed and in working order I dont think that is being awkward, particularly as I have only had it 2 1/2 months. I have contacted trading standards and I am now going to pursue it that way. Even tho he did say that he would laugh at me if I took him to court.
Thanks to all the support, its a shame there are people like that.

Cas x
dont know just what action he intends taking against you but i would certainly ignore his empty threats.

as for coming on here and saying you're an awkward customer.....that aint going to happen either.
after all...we've seen the photos of the spaghetti.


if he doesnt respond to a county court summons/action then he is accepting responsibility without verbally saying so and judgement will be made against him.

he is nothing more than a bully and should be treated with the contemp he deserves.

stick to your guns and take onboard what the trading standard folks have to say.
also go to the CAB and ask to see a solicitor....the first half hour is free and they should be able to tell you if you have a case for a claim.

most of all...dont let it get you down.:thumb:
 

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