Fuel quality (supermarket v. Shell) (1 Viewer)

Steve928

Free Member
Aug 28, 2009
19
0
Funster No
8,190
Having now used enough tank fulls of both Tesco's finest and standard Shell diesel (Shell Extra) to be able to make a meaning-full comparison, it seems that we are getting about 4mpg (>10%) improvement when using the Shell.

Tesco 31ish, Shell 35ish with our 2.2 Multijet, plus there is a marked improvement in power when climbing hills for example.

Of course this is neither scientific nor accurate, but I think I'll opt to spend the extra 1p/litre from now on.

Has anyone else come to the same conclusion?
 

dazzer

Free Member
Jul 30, 2007
1,620
102
In my house
Funster No
41
MH
Virtual RV!!
Exp
10 Years
Think youll find its down to headwind, road condition, driving style etc

The supermarkets buy their fuel from the cheapest possible supplier at the time so you may well be getting shell fuel anyway!!!
 
Aug 27, 2009
19,788
23,032
Hertfordshire
Funster No
8,178
MH
Van Conversion
Exp
40 years
I’ve even used the shell V-Power diesel thinking for that much extra cost it must be good. Guess what! It didn’t make a jot of difference. Same mpg identical performance.
I’ll stick with my Asda standard diesel thanks. I think what you are referring to is the Hawthorne effect. Or is it April 1st:ROFLMAO:

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

Snowbird

LIFE MEMBER
Apr 24, 2009
11,818
22,345
Liverpool.
Funster No
6,422
MH
Fifth wheel.
Exp
Since 11-05-2000
Dont know if it makes any difference between Shell and the supermarkets,but I do know my Cummins runs cleaner,smoother and more MPG on biodiesel than on normal diesel.
 
Mar 28, 2010
191
352
Wirral
Funster No
10,821
MH
A class Hymer 504
Exp
Since 1995
Shell v Sainsburys

Our local Sainsbury's buys in from the local BP refinery which is also the Shell refinery which is also the etcetera. However, I understand the the fuel may be different because supermarket fuel has fewer additives.

All I know is that when I fill up with Shell, I average 30 mpg. When I fill up with Sainsbury's, I average 28 mpg. That difference has been more or less the same over the last 10 years.

It might be coincidence because when I fill up with Shell, I am usually going through Liverpool to the M58. When I fill up with Sainsbury's I am usually doing 55mph down the M53. The price is usually the same. Sainsbury's is more spacious for a motorhome as it can fit two abreast in the central lanes.
 

gazz

Formerly "gazznhelz"
Mar 16, 2010
142
2
Eastwood, Notts
Funster No
10,650
MH
C class
Exp
14
i run on biodiesel too, my engine loves it, runs so much smoother,
last mot the tester phoned up vosa about my emisions, he'd never seen them so low and wanted to check his machine could measure biodiesel smoke levels, but they told him that was normal for biodiesel,

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

Douglas

Free Member
Aug 22, 2008
2,835
400
South Wales,
Funster No
3,779
Exp
6 years + 5 years in boat before that
Think youll find its down to headwind, road condition, driving style etc

The supermarkets buy their fuel from the cheapest possible supplier at the time so you may well be getting shell fuel anyway!!!

I agree with this plus I would add that the mood of the driver at the time of observation can also effects the consumption, IE relaxed or inpatient.

Doug...
 

Pampasgrass

Free Member
Jan 23, 2010
33
-2
North Norfolk Coast
Funster No
10,056
MH
C
Exp
15 yrs
Fuel depot

The fuel distribution depot in Ipswich may quell all the theorists views on this subject.​

I happened to be in the locality whilst on business and was fascinated by the variety of fuel tankers entering/leaving the site.​

Shell #BP# Tesco# Jet# Morrison#Gulf#Q8#Esso#Gulf

The petrol would all appear to be the same it is simply the way it is advertised and marketed.

I have never seen a petrol tanker signwritten

Sludge/Snail/Sloth
Crud / Turd fuels

Can you imagine standing in the pub and telling your mates that you always run your car on Super "DUPE" Unleaded 4 star Crud !!​

::bigsmile:riving2:::bigsmile:riving2:::bigsmile:riving2:::bigsmile:riving2:​
 

oddjob

Free Member
May 26, 2009
85
1
Cleveleys Nr Blackpool
Funster No
6,871
Exp
next monday hopefully
I fill up the driving school car 2 maybe 3 times a week (diesel) ,i do around 30,000 miles a year ,sometimes fill up with Morrison's sometimes shell and to be honest i don't notice any difference regarding performance or mpg bearing in mind we are talking learners here (heavy with the gas pedal)on lessons using the trip computer i average 46mpg ,with me driving its around 55mpg so driving style does make a big difference heavy braking and poor planning etc ,i have also by accident filled up with the more expensive shell extra and again i don't see any difference ,i think its all to do with the additives that the cheaper (don't like that word lets call it less expensive)diesel doesnt get helps engine wear and tear
oddjob

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

motorvating

Free Member
Feb 28, 2010
121
28
Hinckley
Funster No
10,454
MH
RV E350 Diesel
Exp
1 year
In another life I used to be a HGV1 driver, driving petrol tankers, and pulling from the Kingsbury Oil terminal near Tamworth.

The fuel delivered was the same stuff used by all garages whether they be a supermarket or Garage. The fuel is delivered to each fuel seller in basic form, who then adds their own addatives which will affect your engine. The quality and dose rate of additives makes a lot of difference in engine performance, wear, cleanliness, emissions etc.

The branded performance fuel will give you better perfomance, but unless you have a performance car you will not notice any major difference to your power curve.

Fuel savings can be made, but the extra cost in buying the fuel cancells any savings made, however you will probably save money over the life of the engine by using branded fuels.

I have a highly customised 2.2 diesel PT Cruiser that has a fair amount of money spent on performance so i use the shell performnace fuel because I do notice a difference, but my V8 diesel lump in my RV runs on supermarket fuels because the mileage a motorhome does over its life does not make the extra cost worth while, I believe low mileage motorhomes wouild benifit more from good regular oil changes.
 

rainbow chasers

Free Member
Oct 30, 2009
3,680
1,725
Mid Cornwall
Funster No
9,132
MH
Various
Exp
9
It all comes from the same refineries, but supermarkets do buy budget fuels. Budget ones do not have all the additives that the mainstream suppliers add in. Each of the big companies have there own 'Recipe' which is added. These include lubricants, anti freeze etc.

You often find problems when doing recovery with smaller engined vehicles and supermarket fuel because of the lack of additives. These generally are mopeds, and generators. These are much more sensitive to fuel quality. We even had one girl, whos' moped blew up regularly...she worked in a supermarket station! EVENTUALLY, we managed to pursuade her to buy from a mainstream if she wanted to stop waiting for recovery every month or two. She listened, and we have not seen her since!

Budget fuels also consist of 'recovered' fuels. If you recall the tanker that ran aground off Sidmouth, the diesel pumped out of the holds went to Plymouth refinery for decontamination.......around 6-12 months after this happened, we did notice a surge in fuel related breakdowns!!

You will also notice, in the winter months, it is ALWAYS the supermarket diesels that freeze!::bigsmile:
 

Munchie

LIFE MEMBER
Jul 28, 2007
8,921
12,581
Camping Les Vigeres
Funster No
26
MH
Font Vendôme
Exp
Since 2004
So the tankers from Shell, BP, morrisons etc all fill at the same terminal. This is a given I have seen them at Teesport when the Shell refinery was there. So the tanker leaves the terminal and goes to your local BP station, so where are the additives put in please?

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

madbluemad

Banned
Jan 26, 2008
3,327
239
spain
Funster No
1,335
MH
just looking
Exp
since 1980
Stanlow Oil Refinery in Ellesmere Port recieves crude oil from Oil Tankers that berth at the Shell terminal in Eastham.

The Crude is pumped in too holding tanks on the Shell Oil Refinery at Stanlow.

It is "cracked" and processed on the plant, the processed crude which is now petrol is piped to holding tanks. The road tankers fill up from these holding tanks and deliver straight to the pumps.

There is no difference, it would be a commercial none starter for Shell to produce various grades for each customer.

Jim
:Smile:
 

scotjimland

LIFE MEMBER
Jul 25, 2007
2,076
8,975
Suffolk Coastal District, UK
Funster No
15
MH
Timberland
I was employed at the Shell refinery at Shell Haven, Stanford le hope for several years .. I maintained and calibrated metering and additive dosing systems at the tanker loading bays ..

Additives are added when the tanker fills up, the driver has no knowledge if additives are being added or not.. it's not his concern.
When he fills up he puts a code into a keypad which tells the computer what and how much fuel to fill the tanker with, it also instructs the additive dosing pump whether to dose or not.
 

lebesset

Free Member
May 31, 2009
760
2
Funster No
6,945
so it is the same for all jim , as the pump doesn't know what station he is delivering to according to your post ; so if the supermarket is buying from shell this week , that is what he gets , the shell additive spec


at least that is what one of my neighbours tells me ...he owns a tanker fleet on petrol/diesel delivery ...AND the local supermarket AND the petrol station attached to it ...unbranded , so you get whatever he got the best price on this week

my next door neighbour reckons his tractors use more diesel in the winter because of the antifreeze in it ....but maybe diesels use more diesel if the weather is cold , anyone know ?

anyway , the whole thing is very subjective

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

scotjimland

LIFE MEMBER
Jul 25, 2007
2,076
8,975
Suffolk Coastal District, UK
Funster No
15
MH
Timberland
so it is the same for all jim , as the pump doesn't know what station he is delivering to according to your post ; so if the supermarket is buying from shell this week , that is what he gets , the shell additive spec

No, the computer does know who placed the order and will fill the tanker with the fuel for that customer, with or without additives. As I said, the driver has no idea what is being dispensed.

If a supermarket orders from Shell they will get the fuel without the additive.. a tanker won't deliver to a supermarket then on to a Shell forecourt using the same load.. and visa versa.
 

scotjimland

LIFE MEMBER
Jul 25, 2007
2,076
8,975
Suffolk Coastal District, UK
Funster No
15
MH
Timberland
my next door neighbour reckons his tractors use more diesel in the winter because of the antifreeze in it ....but maybe diesels use more diesel if the weather is cold , anyone know ?

anyway , the whole thing is very subjective

There is no anti freeze put into winter diesel, all diesel fuel contains wax. It is an important diesel component because of its high cetane value. Normally the wax is a liquid in the fuel, however, when diesel fuel gets cold enough the wax starts to crystallize.

In winter the 'cloud' point is lowered by reducing the amount of wax, which also reduces the cetane value , by doing so the diesel will be less efficient and hence lower mpg .
 
Jan 11, 2010
2,743
9,476
Chester
Funster No
9,901
MH
Auto-trail
Exp
Well that`s our 13th year & still loving it.
petrol diesel

It`s really quite simple and Jim is closest, Shell will supply all the petrol stations in the area around them, Esso will do the same, there not idiots why pay to ship your fuel when another refinery is closer, hence the gentlemens agreement.
The difference is when the tanker fills up at a Shell refinery for a Shell petrol station any additives are included in the package, if it is going to Sainsburys no additives, hence why you get less per gallon.
Shell fuel generally will give more to the gallon as it is always at the top of the octane rating.

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
Mar 28, 2010
191
352
Wirral
Funster No
10,821
MH
A class Hymer 504
Exp
Since 1995
Back into the debate on fuel with a new angle

Does anyone remember Regent fuel? I think it was taken over by Texaco. In those days, you did buy fuel based on octane rating and Regent had the highest rating in my neighbourhood. I think Texaco stopped quoting the octane rating when the 2, 3 and 4 star fuel came in.

On supermarket fuel, the firm that employes my son has 5 Transits each averaging up to 2,000 per week. They did fuel tests about year ago looking at different suppliers and fuel types such as the super diesels. They concluded that the main brands such as Shell, Esso, BP and Texaco provided the best fuel consumption if the vans were driven the same way on each different suppliers' fuel. However, when drivers used the main brands' fuel, they found the vans tended to be more responsive and thus were driven that little bit faster. This negated some of the gain. Around town, there was little difference. Twelve months later, the drivers are only allowed to buy main brand fuel unless there is absolutely no option.

The test wasn't the most scientific and it may still come down to how the driver feels about the fuel.

Our local Sainsbury's has fuel delivered by BP contracted tanker from the Shell refinery at Stanlow.

I guess the answer is to buy what you feel most comfortable with.
 
OP
OP
S

Steve928

Free Member
Aug 28, 2009
19
0
Funster No
8,190
Think youll find its down to headwind, road condition, driving style etc

I don't think I will thanks.

Thanks to Scotjimland and Robnchris for confirming that there is a difference.
Additives for me from now on - a bargain at a 1p/litre premium.
Perhaps it's noticable because a motorhome engine is working so hard: 33BHP/ton isn't a lot after all.

I remmber the times when supermarkets used to sell cheap fuel. Ah but of course, that was before they eliminated most of the competition.. :roflmto:
 
Aug 27, 2009
19,788
23,032
Hertfordshire
Funster No
8,178
MH
Van Conversion
Exp
40 years
I
The difference is when the tanker fills up at a Shell refinery for a Shell petrol station any additives are included in the package, if it is going to Sainsburys no additives, hence why you get less per gallon.
Shell fuel generally will give more to the gallon as it is always at the top of the octane rating.
Sorry rob but you are a victim of the shell marketing ploy. What are these so called additives, what public body analyses and confirms there in the fuel. What quantity should they be looking for? Any additive will have a number label or trade name only. There are far too many variables to even think of a true road test comparison.

Shells promises are more power and more mpg. Bit like anti wrinkle cream, it’s always the secret ingredients that make the difference.
I have probably performed as good a test as is possible in my camper. I travelled 126 miles on an empty M25-M11on a Sunday morning @ 0500hrs my cruise was set at 67mph, identical wind conditions same time of year two weeks apart with two on board.

The first test started with a full tank of Asda standard diesel. The second test was with a full tank of shell V-power, cost me a fortune.:cry: I have a trip computer that I set to zero at the start of each test. My Asda test gave me 42mpg and the V-power gave me 40.8mpg
Not terribly scientific I grant you but was enough to restrict that to the last v-power in my tank. But if it works for you then continue to pay the shell premium.I'll stick with Asda and Olay.:thumb:

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
Jan 11, 2010
2,743
9,476
Chester
Funster No
9,901
MH
Auto-trail
Exp
Well that`s our 13th year & still loving it.
Sorry rob but you are a victim of the shell marketing ploy. What are these so called additives, what public body analyses and confirms there in the fuel. What quantity should they be looking for? Any additive will have a number label or trade name only. There are far too many variables to even think of a true road test comparison.

Shells promises are more power and more mpg. Bit like anti wrinkle cream, it’s always the secret ingredients that make the difference.
I have probably performed as good a test as is possible in my camper. I travelled 126 miles on an empty M25-M11on a Sunday morning @ 0500hrs my cruise was set at 67mph, identical wind conditions same time of year two weeks apart with two on board.

The first test started with a full tank of Asda standard diesel. The second test was with a full tank of shell V-power, cost me a fortune.:cry: I have a trip computer that I set to zero at the start of each test. My Asda test gave me 42mpg and the V-power gave me 40.8mpg
Not terribly scientific I grant you but was enough to restrict that to the last v-power in my tank. But if it works for you then continue to pay the shell premium.I'll stick with Asda and Olay.:thumb:

Take your point but have to say I`m not a victim of Shells marketing ploy at all.
I worked for Shell Oils and Chemicals for 36 years so have quite an insight to their products and distribution.

I can tell you that when the first Shell formula petrol was about to go out to the forecourts Esso upstaged Shell by a couple of days, opps we wern`t ready at the gantry filling points to load the additives, big embarresment for Shell.
So to play catch up with Esso the gantry operator poured the additive in via a measured container, filled the tanker with petrol then the driver drove the tanker over a prepared rough track.

Believe me Shell is at the forefront of petrol and diesel additives, their oils are second only to Mobile who like Shell go that little bit further in the developement of additives that give their oils the well earned badge of being the worlds best.

You might know of the brand name Jet, this company sold the infamous smelling ICI petrol, bare bones, no additives bottom of all the octane ratings but fuelled the internal combustion engine cheaper than the big boys, unfortunately false ecomony.

One last point do I buy Shell fuels, depends on which garage I`m passing when the tank gets low.:thumb:
 

oldun

Free Member
Mar 23, 2008
747
162
St Neots
Funster No
1,917
MH
VW Campervan
Exp
Since 2001
When people talk about biodiesel I assume that they are talking about the commercially available variety - not the homemade type.

I cannot believe that comments such as "running smoother" could apply to some roughly cobbled together home brew.
 

Braunston

Free Member
May 21, 2008
1,408
7
Funster No
2,762
Hi,

If brand name fuel has special additives in it why do they then make a special fuel, as surely if its already better than what can be purchased in the supermarkets why aren't they telling everyone.

They tell everyone that there special diesel/petrol will give a better performance and mileage than their standard range, why don't the fuel companies make the same claim about the standard range against what is sold in the supermarkets.

Hope that makes sense

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

Wintonian

Free Member
Nov 30, 2009
122
1
Brittany, France
Funster No
9,522
MH
A Class
Exp
2
I think I have gleaned a lot from the posts made by those who seem actually to be qualified to state the facts:

It would seem that the fuel that you put in your tank has to do more than just provide the combustion to drive the pistons. It contains additives that help to lubricate the fuel injection pump and the injectors. As well as additives that modify (I presume) the tendency for waxes to solidify at low temperatures. And, I suspect, anti-bacterial agents to prevent the growth of filter-clogging bacteria.

It is not just about mpg. The cost of a new fuel injection pump is mind-blowing. (As an aside, I was just quoted £1,800 plus fitting for a new pump for my Nissan X-Trail!!!) So if a better fuel helps to keep that going longer, it could be worth more than a few pence per litre. And injectors are not cheap. And if they are kept clean, then the engine runs more efficiently and uses less fuel.
 

acdcdave

Deceased RIP
Oct 23, 2008
95
75
Funster No
4,596
Road fuel additives

Hi guys,

Lucille warned me there was a lively fuel debate underway. It seems a reasonably balanced mix, can I add a few thoughts after 25 years with Shell 20 of them in Shell Research in Ellesmere Port where much of the fuels and lubes R&D is done. The first point is that to improve engine performance, both mechanically and environmentally, engine temperatures and pressure have to be continually increased. This means more and more additives to keep everything working particularly the metallurgy and low emissions. The ultimate testbed is Ferrari F1 and other motorsport for which Shell provides the fuels and lubes and the learning feeds back into evolving transport fuels & lubes. Generally petrol/gasoline is a less forgiving environment than diesel. Both are high tech products, with additive design the cutting edge!

Additives are put in at the terminal which usually covers a major area of the country to keep costs down. Some is included in the base fuel specification and some, by the drivers at the gantry, in the additional additive package which all the fuel majors provide but increasingly the supermarkets also. This follows the major problems in the South East a few years ago which took up to a million cars off the road according to the media, I think involving Sainsbury's but I'm not sure. Increasingly base gasoline is also imported particularly from the Gulf e.g. Saudi and this means quality can be an issue which is not easy to fix without the convenient refinery to do some cooking and blending.

Personally I stick to the majors particularly for petrol. In the motorhome I'm less fussy as long as say 1 in 2 fills is from a major. At the end of the day, if I can, I buy Shell who bless them still pay my pension!!
 
Aug 27, 2009
19,788
23,032
Hertfordshire
Funster No
8,178
MH
Van Conversion
Exp
40 years
I think I have gleaned a lot from the posts made by those who seem actually to be qualified to state the facts:
It would seem that the fuel that you put in your tank has to do more than just provide the combustion to drive the pistons. It contains additives that help to lubricate the fuel injection pump and the injectors. As well as additives that modify (I presume) the tendency for waxes to solidify at low temperatures. And, I suspect, anti-bacterial agents to prevent the growth of filter-clogging bacteria.
It is not just about mpg. The cost of a new fuel injection pump is mind-blowing. (As an aside, I was just quoted £1,800 plus fitting for a new pump for my Nissan X-Trail!!!) So if a better fuel helps to keep that going longer, it could be worth more than a few pence per litre. And injectors are not cheap. And if they are kept clean, then the engine runs more efficiently and uses less fuel.
[FONT=&quot]With the greatest respect wintonian I can’t let you get away with that nonsense what are you saying? Are you saying that any supermarket fuel is not up to the job? Are you saying that any supermarket fuel will damage your engine?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Are you saying that any supermarket fuel will wax in winter? Are you saying that all supermarket fuel will leave your hp pump without lubrication? Are you saying that any supermarket fuel will erode or destroy your injectors? Are you saying that all supermarket fuels have no additives? Are you saying that my own fuel system is full of filter blocking bacteria?[/FONT]:cry:

[FONT=&quot]My view is that all of the additives you refer to are standard in all fuels, that is why we tend not to see the lorry’s parked up with a heater or open flame under their fuel filter in winter. That is why my last four vehicles fueled on Asda diesel and 95 octane petrol have all covered over 120k trouble free miles each before I exchange them. That is why supermarkets are not sued for engine damage. The Tesco/Sainsbury fuel fiasco had nothing to do with the lack of additives or inferior fuel. It was a cock up in the supply chain that could have affected any supplier.:Eeek: [/FONT]

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

Join us or log in to post a reply.

To join in you must be a member of MotorhomeFun

Join MotorhomeFun

Join us, it quick and easy!

Log in

Already a member? Log in here.

Latest journal entries

Funsters who are viewing this thread

Back
Top